2 guaranteed pot dungeons?

[Neo]

Shatters has 2 guaranteed pots per chest

[Fev]

Oh, so sewers has 3 guaranteed def? I personally only recalling 2, but have no data to back it up.

Caps also change the equation, if it is true. i haven’t really thought much about capping the amount of pots in a dungeon, but I could see it happening. Will pay more attention.

Thanks for input so far, more would be appreciated!

[MrLoaf]

No problem. Yeah I think pot caps are a good idea cuz then those 50 person shatters would yield at least 10 life from final boss lol.

[Neo]

I’m 100% sure that sewers has 2 def pots guaranteed, and I don’t think that there is an additional chance for getting another def

Which means that in sewers there are always 2 players that will get def

Yeah I think pot caps are a good idea cuz then those 50 person shatters would yield at least 10 life from final boss lol.

What’s good in only having 2 life at the end of the most hard dungeon in the game?

[Fev]

So what you are saying is that sewers has 2 guaranteed def pot drops, and also caps at 2 def?

[MrLoaf]

additional chance for getting another def

As much as I am elated that Neo responded to my post I am 100% sure that more than 2 def is obtainable from the boss of one sewers. It has happened to me and my guildies many a time.

What’s good in only having 2 life at the end of the most hard dungeon in the game?

Not sure I really understand what you mean, but I think that becuase doing a shatters with 10 people is so easy, not all ten of those people deserve life, mana, tops, etc. However duo/solo is where Shatters really get difficult for me, so at least there’s guaranteed loot for the people in those situations.

However you are the Shatters god so you probably know best

[MrLoaf]

Maybe it does have 2 guaranteed defs but I know the boss can drop 3 so it either caps at 3 or 4.

[Skandling]

Usually there is no cap. Everyone has a chance at a pot (as well as everything else it drops, such as the white bags in the sewer) if they do enough damage, the soulbound threshold. So everyone could get a Void Blade, Murky Toxin, and Def, in theory.

All the guaranteed pots does is make sure that, if everyone is unlucky with their individual drops, at least two people get def pots – unless you solo the boss as no-one gets more than one. This is actually unique, as far as I know. Other bosses such as O1, O2 drop more than one pot but only one person is guaranteed to get pots as they could get all go to one person. Only Gulplord guarantees pots for two people.

[MrLoaf]

Only Gulplord guarantees pots for two people.

False: Shatters guarantees pots for 2 people at every boss. [quote=“Skandling, post:29, topic:4237”]
So everyone could get a Void Blade, Murky Toxin, and Def, in theory.
[/quote]

False, although TECHNICALLY everyone could get a white. No more than 4 or 5 def pots will every drop depending on the rng. I’m not 100% sure on the cap but every single dungeon has one, some are just so high they are never reached because of the odds behind so high as well.

[Fev]

That’s exactly what I am trying to discuss in this thread, which dungeons have 2 guaranteed pots.

So far, based on what people have said.
Abyss: 2 guaranteed vits
Sewers: 2 guaranteed def
Shatters: 2 guaranteed (?) pots

What other dungeons, if any?

Topic has also sort of evolved into discussing whether dungeons have caps, but I think this one will take a lot more rigid sampling to validate

[LHung]

It’s only 2. Me and my 2 friends did a sew and I got a pb while they got def.

[Skandling]

[quote=“MrLoaf, post:30, topic:4237, full:true”]False, although TECHNICALLY everyone could get a white. No more than 4 or 5 def pots will every drop depending on the rng. I’m not 100% sure on the cap but every single dungeon has one, some are just so high they are never reached because of the odds behind so high as well.
[/quote]
Are you sure? My understanding is every boss that has drops, if you hit the SB threshold you have a chance of drops. That means in theory everyone could get that drop, even a white bag, though the chance is tiny for most white bags. Certainly everyone could get pots.

There are no caps, there is no need for them as the RNG controls the rate things drop; if DECA want to change the rate something drops they just change the drop probability, as they did for def pots from Malphas, reducing the probability from 100% to something less.

[Selimmm]

It’s only 2. Me and my 2 friends did a sew and I got a pb while they got def.

it’s still possible to get 3, do it with a few more people and 3 will drop.

[Neo]

So what you are saying is that sewers has 2 guaranteed def pot drops, and also caps at 2 def?

Yes[quote=“MrLoaf, post:27, topic:4237”]
I am 100% sure that more than 2 def is obtainable from the boss of one sewers
[/quote]

If you have a proof I would gladly see it[quote=“MrLoaf, post:27, topic:4237”]
However duo/solo is where Shatters really get difficult for me, so at least there’s guaranteed loot for the people in those situations
[/quote]

Gotta love when you’re “soloing” while there are 5 noobs with you that do nothing but drag and make it last longer, and then get the life at the end [quote=“MrLoaf, post:27, topic:4237”]
However you are the Shatters god
[/quote]

I’m not

[MrLoaf]

Gotta love when you’re “soloing” while there are 5 noobs with you that do nothing but drag and make it last longer, and then get the life at the end

Well if you can do this I would classify you as a god lol… at least some sort of deity.

If you have a proof I would gladly see it

Okay I’ll record some sewers lol. Also Selimmm agrees with me see below.

it’s still possible to get 3, do it with a few more people a[n]d 3 will drop.

This is true.[quote=“Skandling, post:33, topic:4237”]
Are you sure? My understanding is every boss that has drops, if you hit the SB threshold you have a chance of drops. That means in theory everyone could get that drop, even a white bag, though the chance is tiny for most white bags. Certainly everyone could get pots.
[/quote]

Normally this is true. HOWEVER, the game sets caps on how many pots will drop from the boss. That way, even if by some lucky roll everyone would get a life drop from a shatters, only 2 will actually drop. As I said above I think every dungeon has its cap, but only a few dungeons have a low enough cap to actually be a factor (sewer, shatters, etc). The rest of the dungeons may have caps so high they are never met or odds of pot drops so slim that the odds of hitting the cap are virtually 0.

Drop rates are unknown so RIP

[Skandling]

Normally this is true. HOWEVER, the game sets caps on how many pots will drop from the boss. That way, even if by some lucky roll everyone would get a life drop from a shatters, only 2 will actually drop. As I said above I think every dungeon has its cap, but only a few dungeons have a low enough cap to actually be a factor (sewer, shatters, etc). The rest of the dungeons may have caps so high they are never met or odds of pot drops so slim that the odds of hitting the cap are virtually 0.

Drop rates are unknown so RIP

But where do you know this from? All the published information, including dumps of XML files from the game, suggest there is a soulbound threshold and a % chance for every item, and for some items (pots primarily) there are guaranteed drops. But no caps.

[Neo]

Well if you can do this I would classify you as a god lol… at least some sort of deity

With a basic understanding of how bosses work, it’s not that hard :p[quote=“MrLoaf, post:36, topic:4237”]
Okay I’ll record some sewers lol. Also Selimmm agrees with me see below.
[/quote]

Looking forward to it, personally, out of all the sewers I’ve done, I’ve never seen Gulpord dropping more than 2 defs (so we don’t count the slimes or golden rat)[quote=“MrLoaf, post:36, topic:4237”]
The rest of the dungeons may have caps so high they are never met or odds of pot drops so slim that the odds of hitting the cap are virtually 0
[/quote]

The thing is that some bosses have guaranteed loot, some have “random” loot, and some have both. For example the pentaract, it only has “random” loot, getting pots or stuff only depends on RNG and not the amount of people that reach the SB threshold, that way, you can get 0 while soloing or getting 5/5 with 20 other people[quote=“Skandling, post:37, topic:4237”]
But no caps
[/quote]

Depends on the bosses but they can have cap. For example the Tomb, from the 2012 xml data (I’m not sure of the drop rates but this will be just in order to explain), every boss drops 1 life pot, and then has a 0.25 chance of dropping another to someone else that reaches the SB threshold : let’s say you are 4 to kill Bes, at least one person will get life as guaranteed loot, then RNG will apply, so the others will have 25% chance of getting a life
I hope I’ve been clear in my explanation

[MrLoaf]

This information has been deduced and published many times by many different people. Okay yes that means it may not be true, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that no group of people has ever gotten more than 2 def, 2 att, 2 mana, and 2 life from the bosses in a shatters. As for the other dungeons, the caps are obviously higher than 2 so it takes a bit more luck of the draw and much more repetition of said dungeons to figure out the cap for certain. As we have been discussing in the above convo, sewer is 2 probably 3 cap/average, abyss is two vit maybe, etc.

Now, you are correct, however caps ARE a thing and so although perhaps 7/10 people have a chance at getting loot from the forgotten king (unrealistic because anyone with a weapon can get SB on a chest but go with it), the game would then randomly select two of the 7 qualified people AT RANDOM to receive a life pot. That’s why a 0/8 can get life over an 8/8 and vice versa, as long as they have passed the threshold it is all luck.

FOr white bags it is the same but without the guarantee. Instead of a 100% chance for two people to receive a life, there is instead a X% chance for ANYONE who has passed threshold to receive the white. I’m not sure if only one person can get a white per boss but if so, once somebody has successfully received the white chance, all other people are removed from the pool. If more than one person can get the white then the game will roll for every person until nobody remains.

[MrLoaf]

The thing is that some bosses have guaranteed loot, some have “random” loot, and some have both. For example the pentaract, it only has “random” loot, getting pots or stuff only depends on RNG and not the amount of people that reach the SB threshold, that way, you can get 0 while soloing or getting 5/5 with 20 other people

Well. With Pentaract, it has the sort of drop chance as gods: possible, but not guaranteed (odds are probably different but you know what I mean). Also, the Loot threshold is quite low so anyone who gets a shield hit in or a few shots from a staff has a chance. a chance. This way there is no certainty at all that anyone will get loot, but the more people that participate the higher chance of someone getting loot or white bag. Thus when soloing a penta, you have the highest possible chance of getting loot yourself, but there is a lower chance of anybody getting loot than if 20 people were there.

Looking forward to it, personally, out of all the sewers I’ve done, I’ve never seen Gulpord dropping more than 2 defs (so we don’t count the slimes or golden rat)

Yeah I’m almost positive that when 3 manning a sewer, we have all gotten def from boss. As I said I’ll record and get back to you.

Depends on the bosses but they can have cap. For example the Tomb, from the 2012 xml data (I’m not sure of the drop rates but this will be just in order to explain), every boss drops 1 life pot, and then has a 0.25 chance of dropping another to someone else that reaches the SB threshold : let’s say you are 4 to kill Bes, at least one person will get life as guaranteed loot, then RNG will apply, so the others will have 25% chance of getting a life
I hope I’ve been clear in my explanation

Yeah I don’t get enough loot in Tombs to have personal input on this but it seems right. Very clear.[quote=“Neo, post:38, topic:4237”]
With a basic understanding of how bosses work, it’s not that hard
[/quote]

Yeah I’m working on solo rage phase of second and solo 3rd without ele pet xd

[Doc]

Normally this is true. HOWEVER, the game sets caps on how many pots will drop from the boss. That way, even if by some lucky roll everyone would get a life drop from a shatters, only 2 will actually drop. As I said above I think every dungeon has its cap, but only a few dungeons have a low enough cap to actually be a factor (sewer, shatters, etc). The rest of the dungeons may have caps so high they are never met or odds of pot drops so slim that the odds of hitting the cap are virtually 0.

This information has been deduced and published many times by many different people. Okay yes that means it may not be true, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that no group of people has ever gotten more than 2 def, 2 att, 2 mana, and 2 life from the bosses in a shatters. As for the other dungeons, the caps are obviously higher than 2 so it takes a bit more luck of the draw and much more repetition of said dungeons to figure out the cap for certain. As we have been discussing in the above convo, sewer is 2 probably 3 cap/average, abyss is two vit maybe, etc.

I find this extremely hard to believe. Confirmation bias is a strong force. I’d like to see the statistics upon which this theory is built. Caps like you describe are fundamentally at odds with the premise of co-op style play. I’m willing to be convinced of it’s existence – Kabam being what they were, such an inane thing is a possibility – but would take a heck of a lot more than the gut feeling of some players to convince me such a thing is currently in place.

Our understanding of the drop system, as previously shared by the devs over the years, does not have any such caps. It’s simply a qualifier (aka damage threshold), and for every person who qualifies they get an individual random change at some rate. Ie, 10 people surpass the damage needed, so each person independently gets a separate 2% chance. For those dungeons with a “guaranteed” drop, the system simply pools all qualifiers, picks one at random and grants them a 100% success rate, then gives the remaining players their standard shot.