Leaving aside the fact that you have been in 100% of Shatters, and even if you were you have no way of knowing who gets pots and not – not everyone will report them – that does not mean there are caps.
Instead it means the probability is low. Very very low. Maybe so low that the chance of someone getting a pot from the RNG is comparable to getting a white. But, at the same time, the guaranteed drops ensure at least some people get them.
It is all explained by the RNG which governs every drop in the game. It can be overridden in a few cases by guaranteed drops. We tend to remember them as we rely on them to get our pots, but there are relatively few of them. Each boss typically drops one or more UTs, a range of tiered items, perhaps some consumables, and some pots. And only pots, in only a few cases, are guaranteed to drop. Everything else is RNG.
I already know everything on how loot works, no need to explain it to me. Also, why would you care about the chances of someone getting a white bag? You only want to know the chances for yourself, it’s not like you’re going on a sphinx with 100 people and then say “oh there is 1/10 chance that someone gets white bag” but why would you care if it’s not you
You can still watch tutorials and gameplays on YouTube
Thanks for all the discussion so far, this is good. I am not really interested in knowing drop rates and RNG for this thread, more interested in discussion about guaranteed loots and/or caps. When I say cap, I don’t mean RNG cap (like it being very unlikely for x ppl to all get loot on the same boss), but actual cap (even if everyone managed to roll loot/pot, the boss only drops for x amount of ppl).
I am not sure if I am understanding MrLoaf, but I think he may be suggesting there is a cap for white bag drops too. If that is the case, you would most certainly care about the chances of someone getting a white bag. Because if you both rolled it, only 1 of you would get it (assuming the cap is at 1).
Yes, which is why we have this discussion thread. So we can suggest ideas and prove/disprove it. I think it should be pretty easy to investigate whether sewers cap at 2 (and guaranteed 2), and certain dungeons like lab or tomb may be easy to investigate whether white bag caps are in place. We just need proof of it happening once to disprove the theory.
There isn’t, if everyone is lucky, 85 persons in a UDL can get dbow[quote=“Fev, post:44, topic:4237”]
certain dungeons like lab or tomb
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In 2012 (I think that’s the right date), besides the one life guaranteed to someone, there was a 1/4 chance for someone else to get another life pot
That’s interesting to see that only the white bag required a soulbound threshold (which is quite low: 80 000*0.04 = 3 200), this probably has changed now tho
[quote=“Neo, post:45, topic:4237, full:true”]
There isn’t, if everyone is lucky, 85 persons in a UDL can get dbow[/quote]
Actually no: the SB threshold stops that happening. For dbow it’s 0.15 (according to the same XML files) so at most six people can qualify. In practice three or four is probably ideal. Above this the more people there are the lower everyone’s damage is, and normal variability will mean more people miss out on reaching the SB threshold.
Interestingly the cbow threshold is the same, 0.15 or 15%. When a dozen or more high damage characters pile into that dungeons they are pretty much guaranteeing none will get a cbow or any other UT – only the mana pot does not have a SB threshold.
Of course this is all based on out of date XML files, but I don’t think much has changed for these dungeons.
Yeah. Everyone knows if you solo a dungeon to get a pot (by this I mean one that you farm like an abyss, sewer, manor, sprite, etc) you will get the pot reward from it. That means at least one pot is guaranteed to drop. What is technically unknown is how many pots are guaranteed to drop. We know if you solo a sprite world, you will get a dex pot (unless your pet out damages you lol). Same thing with sewer, abyss, manor, puppet (i think), shatters, etc etc etc. However we also know for certain that if two people do a sprite, sometimes they both get a dex, sometimes only one of them gets a dex. This is also true for every dungeon except shatters I think. If you can find any instance of two people doing a shatters and only one getting a drop from 2nd or 3rd boss I would be shocked, even disbelieving because I don’t know that occurrence to even be possible.
This is true, except for shatters 2nd and 3rd boss, they pick two people at random and give them both the 100% success rate. The rest of the people then have a 0% chance to receive pots. They still can get whites or tops etc.
This may happen in other dungeons as well but either the cap is too high or the odds don’t become 0 they become something low like 25%. There’s no point to speculate because there are infinite possibilites for this.
Okay sure I haven’t been to every shatters ever. Nobody has. But as stated above if you can find one Shatters since it was last updated when two or more people participated in the chest of 2nd or 3rd boss and 2 mana or life didn’t drop I would be amazed. I say just 2nd or 3rd because I don’t know if first guarantees 2 def and 2 att or 2 minimum 4 maximum although I have friends who know I’ll ask them tonight.
These patterns are easily visible to anyone who does a few shatters at all. I had the privilege of participating in a few shatters with my friends and some members of the guild Elitist. In every single shatters, two people came forward with life pots they had gotten from 3rd boss and gave them to whoever opened they key. Every time. Without fail.
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Yes I know that none of us can be 100% sure that shatters drops 2 pots every time or the sewer pot cap is 2 or 3. However with so much data available to us the odds are calculate-able and debatable. For instance, the only odds I am 100% certain about are the shatters ones. However someone else can do 200 sprite worlds with 2 people total and get their own opinion about the drops there.
Yours I assume? lol but seriously I do love your channel <3
because it’s interesting how my friend can get 3 DBows in 5 UDLs and I have gotten one in 600 hours.
But also I just enjoy seeing how games like this work.
That is the exact topic we have been discussing here (and the reason why I started this thread). I think the current consensus is Abyss, sewers and shatters are all guaranteed 2 pots for groups of 2 or more people.
Ummm @Fev I think you should read the last few comments before mine because we have passed this and moved much deeper into the mechanics of the game lol.
Not only, I had to learn Shatters through videos at first ;)[quote=“MrLoaf, post:48, topic:4237”]
because it’s interesting how my friend can get 3 DBows in 5 UDLs and I have gotten one in 600 hours.
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I am aware of what is being discussed, but your statement seems to have discounted all of this thread in stating only shatters will give you at 2 guaranteed pots.
Also, anecdotal, but was just in a sewers with 3 people where everyone said they got a def. I didn’t have time to ask if all were from boss though, but that was my guess. Will keep eyes and ears open to determine whether sewers boss cap at 2 defs or not.
Surprise surprise! cdepth is not capped at 1 – I’ve done hundreds of cdepths and once or twice 2 manas dropped. I was so stunned when both of us got mana cause I thought it would be impossible. I think mana droprate is like 1-3% but with 1 guaranteed.
No one has mentioned it but OT also drops 2 mana guaranteed.
And btw, there is a “natural cap” implied by the SB threshold. The number of pots is capped by boss hp/sb threshold (except for manor bosses which can heal). I don’t know if there is another cap other than this.
I don’t recall doing a shatters with more than 2 lifes dropped, but it could just be that the droprate is extremely low but with 2 guaranteed (similar to cdepeths mentioned above).
Not @Neo but I know GHZD made a shatters tutorial video a while back, and I would recommend watching some duo shatters to see how experienced players work together deal to with all the different situations in shatters, how they pull enemies out and how they fight the bosses.
See this isn’t true. Sewers will give you 2, but could give you more. I agree also that the cap could actually be at 3 but I do not yet have enough data to prove it.
What you may be mentioning is that shatters will give you 2 but never more than 2.
I totally believe you cuz I don’t have enough data to be positive I just assumed. That’s actually pretty crazy.
I don’t rly know what you mean by this: are you saying that only X people can do soulbound before that’s all the hp the boss has to offer? If so then yes that is correct although most bosses have enough HP and low enough SB thresholds (like chests) that way more people can make the quota than the enemy can actually drop pots by game code
Chests are exceptional though. Most bosses have SB thresholds around 5-20%. 5% means at most 20 people can qualify. 20% means at most 5 can qualify.
But that is in theory, if everyone does identical damage. In practice with variable DPS, range, piercing, skill and luck damage varies wildly. Some people do far more than the SB threshold, some far less, and the average number that qualify is much lower than the theoretical maximum.
What things have thresholds outside these ranges? Chests. Oryx and Oryx 2 also have low thresholds. Coral Gifts have very high SB thresholds. A few things seem to have no threshold such as Mana from Thessaly with 0. Incs too seem to often have no threshold.
He only describes the stats of monsters (aka what is on realmeye), then how bosses function (you can also find that on realmeye), also some things are incorrect
This guide is helpful if you’ve never been into a Shatters, but if you completed more than 10 I doubt it’s useful
I’ve also “started” to make a Shatters guide, but I didn’t mention the 3/4 of what he says in it because it’s very basic and you know if if you passed more than 3 hours in Shatters
