Ancient Spell: Detonate (Spell for the Skilled)

#21

I was still thinking of drop numbers, so yeah.

Shades (1/1200 chance per shade, given 8 shades)
King (1/100 chance)

#22

if i was to give it a location, it would just be a switch, maybe at something like 1/20. Something common.

If it was shade, then i would give like 1/40
if it was like killar pillar i would give like 1/10.

#23

At that rate, EVERYBODY would have this spell. I could agree with you if this was an event, but in the long run, this would not be a legitimate UT to drop.

#24

thats the point… did you read my previous post, i want more people to have it. If its rare, and you get it, and you dont know how to use, it would be such a waste. [quote=“GAMESONLY, post:23, topic:3917”]
this would not be a legitimate UT to drop.
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what about bone dagger? tomb rings? ctrap?
Also remember Avatar/shatters is a harder dungeon/boss to do.

#25

Of all the manors I have done (about 70, all nosferatus killed), I have only gotten ONE bone dagger. That’s not a matching drop rate to this spell, which, if I calculate correctly, in a 40 person avatar-killing group, 8 people would get a spell from shades (20%!), and a whopping 16 people will get spell from pillars, assuming everybody lands SB damage on all enemies (40%!). I know the point you are trying to convey, but then after a couple hours, These spells are going to be overdropped. I’m ABSOLUTELY fine with it happening as a sort of demo for the item, but otherwise, this spell has a LOT of potential, and it shouldn’t be so easy to get.

#26

I don’t quite agree there are many playstyles in realm and the wizard is a very reactive and urgent class, the spell is used to burst down threats. This spell is cool because it gives the wizard a different playstyle, even though it won’t protect the wizard in urgent situations , this spell could be a lot more useful than any tiered spell if placed smartly. 2 seconds wouldn’t make this spell feel as special and give a wizard that difference in playstyle. Well anyway 2 or 3 that’s up to scorch

Other than that @IAmShurima I agree with all your other points, the damage buff is needed, players should have a strong reward for hitting enemies with this spell. I really like your posts btw, you give good constructive criticism and a positive attitude keep it up!

#27

ok maybe its a bit high, but before your post i had no idea what shades were (i never do avatar, so i have no idea how many spawns). [quote=“GAMESONLY, post:25, topic:3917”]
and a whopping 16 people will get spell from pillars, assuming everybody lands SB damage on all enemies (40%!).
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i guess maybe a bit lower, but basically a similar effect[quote=“GAMESONLY, post:25, topic:3917”]
I have only gotten ONE bone dagger.
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you have trash luck, if i clear one, i got like 2[quote=“GAMESONLY, post:25, topic:3917”]
it shouldn’t be so easy to get.
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maybe. But the impression that i wanted to give was common, something like tomb rings. Maybe a bit rarer.

truth is, i was leaning towards 2.5 seconds when i created this, b/c i like the symmetry of 25. [quote=“Proasdfase, post:26, topic:3917”]
I really like your posts btw, you give good constructive criticism and a positive attitude keep it up!
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^^^^

wait? after i buffed second time, i asked you here. [quote=“Proasdfase, post:13, topic:3917, full:true”]
yes I like the buff
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#28

I liked that you buffed the damage before but looking at it now you prob need to give it more because looking at the dps graph it isn’t that much higher than eledet

#29

b/c. I just randomly drew a line there, i have no idea how close it is… maybe ill make a more accurate graph. Also remember the stat buffs which eledeto doesnt have.

#30

TL;DR: (just for you :smiley: ) Since you seem to want to make this a more common item, I would reduce the radius to maybe 50-75% of a normal spell. Up the damage to 125% of the total damage eledet does. Reduce the projectile count to 10-15 to make it more effective against defense-heavy enemies. These calculations are assuming that the timer will be 2-3 seconds long. The longer the timer is, the more damage you need to add for me to want to try and learn to use the spell.

Should you want to read the full post xD:

I guess I am a bit hazy on what the exact purpose of the spell is. The way I see it, your two primary intents are 1) have a spell that rewards guessing WHERE the enemy will be, and 2) have a spell that rewards guessing WHEN a stationary boss will go from invulnerable to vulnerable.

Characteristics of the WHERE option would be:

  • High damage (100-125% of eledet’s total damage) . - it needs to be viable against bosses and gods equally
  • Medium radius (75% of eledet’s radius) - it needs to be forgiving if you don’t predict where perfectly, but not as much as pierce/eledet
  • High shot count (20) - it needs to be forgiving if you don’t predict where perfectly. Perhaps match Pierce’s shot count

Characteristics of the WHEN option would be:

  • Extremely high damage (125-175% of eledet’s total damage) - the primary intent would be killing high defense bosses and not so much the gods.
  • Tiny radius (10-25% of eledet’s radius)- messing up the timing can’t be fixed with a radius increase. Make it tiny so that the damage output can be extremely high. Rather than trying to be more forgiving, as in the case of the WHERE option, make the spell damage more rewarding when you are correctly able to guess the timing of the boss going vulnerable.
  • Low shot count (5-10) - again, changing this won’t really make the spell more forgiving if you mess up the timing, so I would keep the shot count low for this option.

I see these two options for what your spell is going to do as kind of opposite ends of a spectrum. You can have your spell focus solely on predicting where something will be in the future, aka the WHERE option. This would make the spell viable both in the god lands as an all purpose spell that can be substituted for pierce or eledet, even if you are putting yourself at somewhat of a disadvantage. This option would also make it a useable and sought after spell for bosses that you can predict where they will be in the future.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, you could have your spell be strictly a swap-out spell intended for predicting when bosses will go invulnerable. This constitutes the WHEN option. Players that successfully do this will be rewarded with INSANE damage, but at the cost of having to perfectly predict a bosses invulnerability phases with almost no margin of error in spell placement or timing.

Your third option, is to pick a spell that is some combination of the WHERE and the WHEN, which is what you seem to be trying to do. If so, then I would focus less on reducing the radius and upping the damage. What you have is probably fine. I am just saying that you could specialize your spell even further by focusing more on the WHEN.


With relation to the damage, I do think that the damage needs to be generally higher than pierce and eledet against bosses, either through reducing the shot count and upping the damage to make the effects of armor less noticeable, or by just upping the damage overall.  From my perspective, you need to make it extremely rewarding for me to try and use something that requires so much skill as to predict where a boss will be in the future.  I am already leading my shots to perfectly land eledet and pierce.  Now I will have to lead my spell by several seconds.  The damage needs to make me want to do that.

As a side note, the longer the timer, the higher the damage needs to be.  It is much harder to predict where something will be 4 seconds from now as it is to predict where it will be 2 seconds from now.  The longer the timer, the more risk I will miss, therefore the more reward I need when I land the spell.

I still love the idea and hope someone at DECA sees your post.
#31

My point with the 3 seconds is a VERY long time was just that it is hard to predict where something will be 3 seconds in the future. Count it out when you are in god lands. Watch where a god, like the leviathan is, something that moves a lot on its own and somewhat randomly, and see how far it is from where it started in 3 seconds. You will find that 3 seconds gives it a really long time to move.

I do love the play style that this spell brings. I am just saying that 3 seconds is a lot longer than you think when you are playing a game with so much happening in fractions of a second.

#32

yes, i think i originally had it like that[quote=“IAmShurima, post:30, topic:3917”]
High shot count (20)
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yes, i like your logic behind it. I had it as 5 more shots mainly to have it be weaker to higher def oppenents.[quote=“IAmShurima, post:30, topic:3917”]
Extremely high damage (125-175% of eledet’s total damage)
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intersting, i actually had a different spin on this, my idea was to have it lower than eledeto, this is b/c you could always swap out this spell and get off two spell bombs.[quote=“IAmShurima, post:30, topic:3917”]
Tiny radius (10-25% of eledet’s radius)
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the reason i disagree with this is b/c, the spell is already hard enough, if they messed up the timing, they will already have majority of their shots miss. That i feel is already a big punishment. But i can see where you are coming from.

but why dont you also make the where option have this as well? Range doesn’t effect it as much, b/c if they mess up the timing, the boss might have move in invulnerable again.

i guess the same reason as the high damage. [quote=“IAmShurima, post:30, topic:3917”]
I am just saying that you could specialize your spell even further by focusing more on the WHEN.
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yes, i originally had this planned for the where, b/c i was not aware of the When (at that time).

Yes, all your arguments would be 10000000% correct, but the problem i was think of, is that they could always switch to a teired spell/ut/st, they can basically get an extra free spellbomb in (well they pay the mp, and skill required).

true

thanks! means a lot![quote=“IAmShurima, post:31, topic:3917”]
Watch where a god, like the leviathan is,
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but with the levithan, i can barely even hit it with a teired dagger, the motion is just too hard. So comparing it to the hardests of things is relatively hard, something like sprite god (who nudges around) would be better. [quote=“IAmShurima, post:31, topic:3917”]
You will find that 3 seconds gives it a really long time to move.
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Yes, one of the scepters im currently designing, i acutally went into realm and tested it (which is something i should’ve done with this.)

I’ll test the timing tomorrow!

sorry if my posts seems dumb or something, this was done after a long day, thus have not given it as much thought as i wished to.

ill reconsider some stats another day :stuck_out_tongue:

thanks for the Feedback!!!
I didnt get much for this idea! you should come here more often! Its rare to get such thought out posts here.

#33

Here is a crazy thought. What if the detonate doesn’t happen unless you have the spell equipped at the time of detonation? So you can’t just change spells to get in that free damage while the timer is ticking.

Indeed this is true. I picked the leviathan because it changes directions in the same way that a boss will, where as many of the other gods will just pick a target and run at it. You do have a point though.

Tell me more :smiley:

No sweat, your posts are fine. I like that you explain your reasoning for doing things instead of just saying what it is that you are doing. I think a lot of people that post ideas on here could take a lesson from it. People, myself included, are stupid. We don’t always understand the end goal or the vision that is trying to be explained. If you give us a look into the reasoning behind some of the decisions that led to the stats/abilities on your post, it helps us make better suggestions that jive with what you are looking for. You do a good job with this, so I guess thumbs up :slight_smile:

I’m trying to be more active on the forums. I always knew it was here, but didn’t really take a look at it until recently.

I’m just doing my civil duty sir; trying to make this game a little bit better every day.

#34

Also, another crazy idea: Variable timing. I don’t know if it could be done, but what if I could click on my spell and set the timer from 1-5 seconds. The longer the timer, the more damage it deals. Maybe that’s getting too fancy, but who knows. Somewhere far down the road.

#35

i actually thought of that right after i posted, well actually, i thought of a queit/stun after switching it. But that also works! Nice idea![quote=“IAmShurima, post:33, topic:3917”]
Tell me more :smiley:
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:wink: you’ll have to wait and see, would love for you to comment on it then (but making a sorc set rn, sets take a quite a long time…)[quote=“IAmShurima, post:33, topic:3917”]
I think a lot of people that post ideas on here could take a lesson from it.
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Thanks! I used to never come to the ideas section. Then i felt like it would be fun, so im trying it out! Its quite fun! [quote=“IAmShurima, post:34, topic:3917”]
and set the timer from 1-5 seconds. The longer the timer, the more damage it deals
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oh my…My current set’s has a variable in it, and its quite hard to work with. It would need an intersting equation for it! Although i not sure if it could be done, i definitely like the sound of it! I’ll try it out (probably fail)

#36

I REALLY like the idea of having it do something else when you unequip it. I’m not so sure if that is something I would want for this particular spell, just because I think you don’t want people swapping the spell ALL the time to take advantage of the down time in the detonate, but I would definitely love to see that on an item in the future for sure. Unless of course the whole point of the item, which it kind of is, is to swap the spell quite a bit. In which case that could definitely work.

I was thinking of something with a limited number of inputs and outputs. Say for example your base spell does 1000 (just a random number) damage when all the shots hit. You can set the timer to 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 seconds, but only those. No decimals, fractions, etc. I guess you could set the timer by either clicking a certain part of the spell, typing it in a text box on the spell, or clicking a certain amount of times on the spell. I don’t know. That could be figured out later. But anyway, I imagine you would want some kind of exponential power factor for the damage multiplier. The longer you wait, the more that can go wrong with your prediction, thus the more damage you should be rewarded with. Your multipler would probably go up to 2.5x the base damage and be broken down into 1x for 1 second, 1.1x for 2 seconds, 1.4 for 3 seconds, 1.9x for 4 seconds, and 2.5 for 5 seconds. Something like that.

#37

yeah, ill most likely go with your suggestion, but something that i feel could still happen is, that after the spell detonates, they immidiately switches to their other spell and get another spell in. I guess, this will need a lot of thought…[quote=“IAmShurima, post:36, topic:3917”]
Something like that.
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that would certainly reward players, but the thing i fear, is that they get too good at using this spell, that they just become insanely overpowered, like some people dont need to count when the rogue cloak wears off, b/c they have this trained internal clock. Wizard has already insane dps. Maybe i would only go to something like 3/4 seconds. Also, with greater damage, i just realized…does need some form of ranger reduction b/c you could just randomly spam it… i didnt realize until now. I’ll have to change it tomorrow (maybe not, im so far behind on homework!!! Ahh!!).

#38

I think there is somewhat of a difference between counting in your head when you use an ability, aka the cloaking, and being able to predict where something will be in the future, especially if it has random movements, as many things in this game do. I feel that the amount of players that will be able to consistently hit perfect 5 second bombs will be VERY sparse, and many players will rather try and perfect the art of the 2 or 3 second bomb.

Also, you have to consider that this item’s kin is the void blade. Think of the damage that void blade outputs, and you don’t have to predict where something will be, you can just throw out spams of stars. Void has crazy high damage.

Contrast that with your spell, which requires actual skill. More skill = more risk/reward hence more damage scaling for the comparable skill level required. I think the spell should consistently out-damage someone using a void blade (I know it is hard to compare a weapon with an ability).

#39

true at first it seemed like a dragging thing, but it has immense strenght in the cem. It turned out to not be the most balanced thing.

Hmm, yeah, I’ll do some changes…ehh… sometime…when i feel like it

#40

If anything, I think that your item will have a similar amount of drag potential as void. People don’t actively try and drag onto something if they don’t see a benefit for themselves. For example, I would drag gods onto a coral trap, because I know that it will be paralyzed and be easier for me to spell bomb or land my shots. I would not drag onto someone’s void blade, because I don’t want them to steal my SB loot potential. As such, I feel that people won’t really try and actively drag onto the spell bombs.

Your spell takes skill. That’s what justifies everything. Void blade… eh not so much, especially in cem and on chests.