Cool class concept, it makes me want to design another class. (And I haven’t done that for over four years!)
I don’t really care for the spear due to loot reasons but I do like the weapon itself as it contrasts the existing weapons. (If a new weapon/armor were to be added I’d hope it comes with more than one class. For reference, looting T12 katanas during the kabam era was very disappointing.)
The Cross ability would be a nice addition to the game and the effect that comes with it would certainly fit thematically. It’s fairly powerful and could easily be on par with the armored status effect, although it also affects armor piercing damage. Due to the synergy it has with defense, and picking up where def falls short, I think a lower multiplier would make more sense.
I suggest reducing the blessed effect to 20% reduction and changing the vit buff to be a party effect to make up for this.
I can personally see this class, or one similar to it, being in the game. I think you did a great job with this overall.
And yes, in case it would be deemed too high it could take a slight nerf.
From my perspective I don’t see 25% being a huge deal, especially since it favours players that lack defense more than it does to those who have a lot. Since it has effect after DEF calculations a shot that is reduced to 40 through all other means only decreases by a further 10 damage, which is alright, while a shot that deals 100 damage will instead deal 75, which is a 25 damage increase, much more significant. This doesn’t let tanky classes be too tanky but also has a more meaningful effect for squishier classes who would suffer big time from a lot less shots compared to melees.
That said, I’m not against a 20% damage reduction, just stating my point of view. Since there’s no way to actually test it in game it becomes hard to judge accurately.
I’ve been thinking about it for a while and the more I think of it the better it seems.
I do indeed think changing the Blessed buff to 20% reduction is a good idea because just like Curse gives a 5th “slice” (25%, 50%, 75%, 100%, 125%) to the overall damage, blessed taking away a 5th slice would be a better idea (20%, 40%, 60%, 80%, 100%).
As for the On group VIT I also like that idea. Just like Paladin gives +HP and Bard gives +DEF this one could give +VIT.
For Lucifer’s Insignia what’s the point of having it do both blessed and cursed if curse is priority over blessed? I get the party affect but having only u with curse while everyone else is blessed is umm kinda weird, it is kinda balanced but it might be better to replace cursed with umm idk drunkness?
Oh and having an ability with 20% damaged reduced is rlly overpowered, have that along with a bard for def boast and paladin and priest, well that’s pretty intense, good luck dying😂but otherwise your sprites are amazing and this will be a very interesting character that would be game changing
But I would think the 20% damage reduction would be with the current amount of def u have and it disregards any def boosts, but at the same time def boosts increases your def stats temporarily so the 20% damage reduction would acknowledge your def including the boost, but maybe decreasing the damage reduction to 10% and making blessed priority over curse would be better
That’s because you get Berserk, Speedy and Damaging. The party effect means it still gives everyone the effect but you because you’ll be affected by Curse which will counteract it.
Not only does drunk not make sense in terms of the theme but it also doesn’t counterbalance it as much as I want it to. It’s supposed to be high risk - high reward, therefore the big DPS boost + speedy with Curse on top.
A 20% damage reduction doesn’t suddenly make things not do damage anymore. You’re not the first to refer to the status effect as too overpowered when its not as much as you make it out to be.
For reference, taking a total of what would be 1000 damage without blessed ends up being 800 damage. This is usually enough to take 1-2 shots max on most late game stuff, most notably boss fights. There’s also the fact that the effect has diminishing effects the more DEF you have. I have dedicated a reply to this kind of calculi so feel free to scroll up and read it if you haven’t. Basically 50 DEF turns 150 pure damage to 100 which - 20% is 80 damage (20 damage reduction); while say, 75 DEF turns 150 pure dmg into 75 dmg which - 20% is 60 (15 damage reduction). The more DEF you have, the less it reduces.
People who take an accumulative amount of damage such as 1500, even with - 20% thats 1200 damage. They will die anyway. This buff will, however, help those who might not make due to a slight mistake or blunder making them take just a bit more than what they could’ve taken to survive, thus instead of them dying, they will survive with a sliver of health which will either let them die afterwards if they’re not competent enough or survive if it was a mistake that they could’ve avoided.
This is a definite no because negative status effects ALWAYS have priority over positive ones.
Not only would you be avoiding a 25% damage increase which is very substantial after being affected by said effect but you’d also be doing that where Curse is taken into account when setting the damage values for the enemies since Curse only appears where the dungeon creator wants it to (unless you use an item that inflicts Curse on self, but thats your own problem if that happens).
I don’t see the reason for this especially when you’ve said that 20% damage reduction is OP, yet you are not against a 25% damage reduction since that’s what you would be avoiding if you could prioritize Blessed over Curse.
(Curse increases damage by 25%, being able to override it would make those 25% extra damage not take effect, essentially shielding you from more damage than even Blessed would.)
All of this so far is theoretical talk. Either that is me with the calculations or anyone else providing their input. Don’t get me wrong I love the input but there’s only so much Theory can give over actual Experience (as in, trying it out in game, not that I expect this to be in game but you get what I mean).
Maybe reducing it to 10% would make it more balanced or
Maybe reducing it to 10% would make it negligible, just like Weak is.
Thank you! I think most of them could be improved but I’m not skilled enough for that yet (especially Lucifer’s Insignia). I’m glad you like them! I had some help from people in the Discord Server too so there’s that.
You really don’t get how it works. Here’s three reasons why it is more disruptive than you suggest.
First 20% damage reduction is similar to the 25% nerf to e.g. Damaging (actually the 25% nerf to Damaging is more like 17% as it went from 150% to 125%). And that was a massive change, together with the similar change to Berserk. A similar nerf to damge taken would be at least as significant.
Second its much harder to balance changes to damage done to players than damage they do. A nerf to damage players do means the battle lasts longer, mostly. Combined with other changes such as to HP scaling it changes te group dynamic to disfavour very large groups. But change damage done to players and you affect survivability; how many shots you can take in a particular battle phase before you have to nexus for example. And the game is full of places where this comes into play, especially the endgame. Nerfing damage would mean they would all have to be reworked – again.
And third it would have an outsize effect due to the In Combat trigger. This is hard to predict precisely as it depends on each char’s precise Def and enemy damage. It’s most easily seen perhaps in comparing two classes, e.g. a robe class and bow class. You might e.g. see a Wizard suddenly able to avoid IC more often, more like an Archer, when affected by Blessed, and so have far less downtime. Again a big issue for balance.
Don’t confuse damage output with damage input. The damage you deal (damage output) affects run time. The damage you take on the other hand (damage input) affects survivability, which doesn’t affect run time. Or rather, it affects it slightly but only by a very small margin compared to offensive buffs. A 20% damage reduction would mean you stay damaging the boss for perhaps 1 more shot, which can usually only be like 0.2 seconds or less so thats around 0 to 1 more shots per player which increases damage output by around 0% to 10% if lucky. Thats an average of 5% damage increase if you wanna go that way which is 1/5 of what damaging and berserk offer. Again, assuming all players stay in battle to a certain HP threshold, the same as they would without Blessed, before falling back, which won’t be the case in most groups. So this is already a very biased review towards your side.
Again, damage output affects run time, damage input affects survivability. You can convert survivability into DPS but it doesn’t add much of a noticeable difference and thats assuming already some things about the group as a whole. So upping your survivability chances by a bit doesn’t make it any faster to complete a boss fight. And no, the game isnt full of places where it comes into play because no dungeon is made thinking that half the group will nexus midway. It is made for a consistently sized group, not one that goes from 85 to 30. You dont notice dungeons getting easier the deeper you go into them, do you? In fact, they get even harder. Fungal Cavern goes into Crystal Cavern. Mbc goes into Void entity. O3 minis go into O3, which then adds Pet Stasis portals, gets Exalted and deals even more damage along with all his minions, is harder to damage, and even has Armor Piercing beams randomly put as well as walls of them.
So no, they wouldnt really need a rework just because of a damage reduction buff.
Again, players who would die without the blessed buff would die with it anyway. Only players who were to do a mistake and step into another bullet that would deal enough to kill them would be saved because they’d be able to dodge everything else after dropping very low with Blessed (instead of tragically dying).
I sometimes wwonder if you read my replies because I dedicated a whole thing to this… Combat Trigger. Please read it if you haven’t.
It hardly even affects Combat Trigger if at all. Plus, damage is already so high in lategame that no matter your defense, you will be put IC. Not even taking into account all the Armor Piercing bullets that put any character in Combat and the Armor Break status effect inflicting bullets, that make any character be put in combat by any bullet. A Wizard might be able to tank what an Archer can but what can an Archer tank before being put IC? Almost nothing… In lategame, nothing at all.
That is utter nonsense. The Combat Trigger is based entirely on how much damage you take. So if damage is reduced then the Combat Trigger will be activated less often, in some cases much less often if you are playing in an area with enemies doing damage around the trigger.
Even lategame dungeons like Nest, Fungal have many enemies which do lesser amounts of damage, that doesn’t put all players In Combat. There are very few places where every shot does enough damage to put you In Combat no matter your Def (and there players would still benefit from the 20% damage cut).
Sorry I forgot to elaborate on that, I meant: on most classes, damage is so high that no matter your defense, you will be put IC. Although I was thinking more of Oryx’s Sanctuary. Still, for the most part, you will be put IC for the majority of the time if you get hit by anything.
For instance, Mushroom Brawler deals 200 Dmg AoE, 160 AoE, 120 AoE.
Let’s say 50 DEF is what most classes have. 120 - 50 = 70. 70 - 20% = 56. Put IC. All values higher will have the same thing going on.
Mushroom Alchemist:
75 Bomb, 100 Bomb, 125 Bomb.
75 - 50 = 25. Not put IC. 25 - 20% = 20. Not put IC.
100 - 50 = 50. Put IC. 50 - 20% = 40. Put IC.
Same thing for 125.
Mushroom Chieftain:
200 shot, 120 shot, 300 AoE.
200 - 50 = 150. Put IC. 150 - 20% = 120. Put IC.
120 - 50 = 70. Put IC. 70 - 20% = 56. Put IC.
300… Always IC.
Mushroom Keeper has a 75 AP shot. 75 - 20% = 60. Always put IC.
Mushroom Shaman has 110 Dmg shots. 110 - 50 = 60. Put IC. 60 - 20% = 48. Put IC.
The rest of the enemies just have either higher Dmg values or lower, making both (with blessed and without it) either put a character IC or not IC.
To be honest I was expecting some shots in the Fungal Cavern to be able to be within that threshold of IC no blessed but Not IC with blessed @ 50 Def. I guess this just proves my point further.
To make research easier let’s see which Damage values DO make a difference when blessed vs not, regarding IC.
@ 50 DEF your Combat Trigger is 37. So 87 Damage Min to 95 Damage Max (non armor break). Thats the range at which a character with 50 DEF will benefit from not being put IC while blessed but put IC while not blessed. Only 90 and 95 damage shots will be within that threshold, since they dont use numbers like 88, 91, etc. Thats assuming that the shots arent Armor Piercing, which in most cases, they are. In lategame that is. Theres no dungeon that consistently deals that range of damage and enemies like to pile up so chances are, no benefit for you. Even if you were to benefit from it, it wouldnt be a problem because its such a small range but you dont even benefit from it.
Feel free to check other DEF values and their ranges and compare them to dungeons.
I am basing it on my experience, not on trying to work it out with a calculator. Another thing you got wrong:
Not even taking into account all the Armor Piercing bullets that put any character in Combat
Armour piercing damage is treated like any other damage, and does not put you IC if it’s not high enough. Playing on Knight recently with 80 Def, it’s notable how few things put him IC in Godlands; in particular armour piercing shots from White Demons and armour ignoring damage from Lava doesn’t.
What I said about the Armor Piercing shots was in a lategame context. I don’t think lategame has shots that armor pierce and deal less than 60 damage. A knight with 100 DEF has 54 Combat Trigger. Any AP bullet dealing 55 or more already puts any character in combat. No matter your gear. And obviously not including consumables.
My comment about Experience VS Theory was about the Buff working in an actual group, which has too many variables to precisely calculate and get an accurate estimation of whether it is too powerful or not. Not regarding things like IC which can be very easily calculated.
I like the idea in general, though I myself can’t really speak for balance or stuff since I’m not really familiar with the game yet. Personally wanted the “Road Cross” item to just be a straight up pedestrian/crossing sign but I kinda get the limitations in pixels for doing so XD
Also a side note I’m also making my own class idea and would like to know how you made that video thing you did for one of thee UTs! It seemed really cool and I kind of want to make one for my own class suggestion.
Well, for the video thing I used OBS (a free software that is used to record/livestream) theres a lot of options so I just changed the area to a smaller one to not include stuff like the Windows Bar and stuff. As for the site I used Haizor’s DPS calculator which lets you do custom weapons in the Weapon Editor
