Assassin Poison Rework [Instant Damage + Over-time]

#1

So, as I’m sure as hell you all know, the Assassin is…not the greatest class right now. His counterparts have either slightly better DPS (Trickster) or are better at getting DPS in in the first place (Rogue).
His ability is slowly thrown and deals damage over a somewhat long period of time, usually making it obsolete when events are getting steamrolled. However, correct timing can cause an enemy to take damage while in an invulnerable phase; this is especially useful with the reworked Event gods getting a few invulnerability phases.
But even then, it is incredibly difficult to determine when it’ll be vulnerable and what the exact timing should be.

As such, I’ve come up with a rework solution that’s both feasible and balanced (I hope):
The Poison Grenade that is thrown takes 1 second to “arm”, similar to Huntress traps, though still instant once it hits the ground. On impact, within its radius, it deals a set amount of damage and inflicts Poisoned.
The instant damage allows the Assassin to get a good amount of damage in from a safe distance on multiple targets in a radius. I didn’t want to completely remove the Poison effect, because I think that would bring the class too far from its origins. Or roots, whatever you want to call it.
The extra effect is my unsurity. I was thinking between two possibilities:

  • Use the old Poisoned effect. This would mean that the Assassin could still deal damage over time, perhaps with a slightly changed amount due to the impact damage and changed timespan.
    But I also thought of the following:
  • Use a new status effect: Poisoned. Take the bleeding icon, turn it yellow, done. Poisoned would deal approximately 50 damage per second for a different amount of time depending on the Poison tier. It would go through invulnerability (since it is a status effect).
    There are, however, numerous flaws with the latter idea, the main one being that, being a status effect, it would pierce invulnerability - unless there’s some way to prevent that without giving every monster that can turn invulnerable Poisoned immunity. Aside from that, it’d be very similar to the current Poisoned, but worse for most, considering that it deals half the over-time DPS of a T4 Felwasp Toxin (700 damage over 7 seconds).

What do you think? Does this seem too unbalanced, did I miss anything, or is it an actually decent idea for once? Probably not, but do say why.

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#2

It’s a step to quicken the Sins’ burst damage, alright. However, I do wonder what was the Sin’s niche pre-Pet era?

#3

idk

#4

The Assassin is fine. It’s a class that requires time and patient. You just aren’t playing him right. :3

#5

WCs and dirty tombs when you only had vitality safely being able to do SB at a range was great. It used to be you see assasin everywhere a WC or tomb was going to be opened but now any class can do either of those pretty much

#6

Please stop. Assassin was designed when the game didn’t have pets. You completely missed his points about how things get steamrolled, so please read and consider his thoughts before you make ignorant comments like this.

#7

*her aye cheers

#8

But what did Sins had over wizards back then? I’m sure they don’t out DPS them, and even the wizard’s Spellbomb outclass their ability in attacking enemies from afar.

@raidstorm, Personally, I don’t think the assassin is weak. I think it’s poorly adjusted for the pet era, and not as fun to play as, say, the wizard because of the limitations around poison. Of course, you’re free to think otherwise, I suppose.

#9

It’s easier to hit with poison then a spell was the reason I’m a crowd like 02 a spell might only hit 1 minion poison could hit everything

#10

So, we can say that the poison’s original intent was to deal damage in the middle of a crowd? Assassin is a DpS/AoE character, you might say then.

In that case, I think a rework of the poison could definitely be Seelpit’s idea, since it’s good for DpS and deals a decent AoE.

Honestly, I was looking for a bigger overhaul, but I think thus keeps the original spirit pretty well.

#11

I wouldn’t describe assassin as a DPS character, because we’d usually mean that to be high DPS output, and poison isn’t high DPS at all, but it does give fairly slow guarantee damage over time.

The core concept of assassin is: “even if you can’t get near enough to properly attack the thing because minions are wrecking havoc, eventually the thing will still die if you just keep throwing poisons.”

Part of the original intent must have been to ensure that even in the worst group of players, just so long as assassin was in the mix, the group had a chance to complete the content. In this it’s fulfilling similar role to how a rogue can be allowed to solo tricky things (O2, Tomb rages) if the group wishes it. Though ofc more skills/practice is needed to skilfully cloak than to poison.

#12

Shouldn’t we be buffing mystic instead?

#13

Mystic is already an amazing class, there’s no need to buff it.

#14

Anyone who has actually played assassin knows he is fine the way he is. He has amazing range on his ability allowing him to take out entire screens of enemies over the course of a few seconds. The fact his damage is over time makes him shine during boss fights with a million invulnerability phases. With good timing you can be doing damage on anything when no one else can. He can even get SB in on bosses like o2, killer queen bee, all the draconis bosses, etc without ever even seeing them which is hands down over powered.

I’ve said it once and i’ll say it a million times more, the only people pushing for an assassin buff are noobs who’ve never actually played the class, people who are just straight up bad at the game, and people who are too stupid to learn the timing of poison throws and enemy phases. :sunglasses:

(I could get behind an MP cost reduction though, or poisons being exactly the same but with the added bonus of instant damage. But a complete rework is hands down stupid)

#15

the old poison effect is better. it brings me joy to see those yellow pixels as they scream in pain

they do need to do instant damage. and maybe cost less mana

#16

yeah. as an assassin main, i can assure that assassin is pretty fun. but he is really shit when there are lots of people.

two poison= no more mana until end of fight (assuming that there is at least one melee around). that’s only 1,800 dmg.

meanwhile rogues and trickster’s dps is around 1771.37. so a single use of their ability grants them about 8856.85 dmg, counting the time they need to go in and out. a single use.

the only way to use assassin fully is to stack mp pots or to have a bullshit mp heal pet.
my pet is still rare and havent unlocked mp heal yet, so it’s really bad sometimes.

#17

Agreed, you can self buff yourself which can give you insane dmg output

#18

I disagree. I have played on numerous Assassins, and it always occurred to me that I deal barely any considerable amounts of damage with my poison.

True, that’s just a fact.

That depends on what kind of enemies you’re dealing with. With some stacked gods, for example, one poison certainly won’t cut the chase (T5/6) or only take out a small part of them if they’re spread out a little (Murky).

Enemy timing takes more practice for some people, and even then, it’s easy to still miss your poison. Also, stereotypes ;u

The latter’s pretty much what I was proposing in the first place, actually.

Poison buff
#19

But he called you a noob. That means you suck at the game.

But yeah, there is literally no argument AGAINST an assassin buff, so far all I’ve seen is “you’re using him wrong” or “you’re a noob”. Please someone give me a legit answer to why deca shouldn’t buff it.

#20

Because DPS isn’t the only factor. An ability that you can use to get damage in while standing nowhere near the dangerzone gives assassin an advantage over all other classes. Players can literally press spacebar and run away (unless prevented by terrain, dungeon design).

It’s because of this that I think assassin is a fairly balanced class as it currently stands, and, while I think personally it’s a little vanilla/boring/safemode, it can compete perfectly well against the other classes in both long and short range combat so not in need of any major buff. Minor tinkering of course acceptable but I’d not prioritise it over other classes that are more broken.