Defining Hacking, and why is it so bad?

#177

I’m not sure you understand. Hacking is wrong because it’s against the rules made by the owners of the game.

If the use of any kind of ‘hacked’ client was fine by DECA, then everyone would use clients, including me. Using hacked clients is bad only because it breaks rules. There are no other reasons for why hacking is bad. Any reason other than “it breaks DECA’s rules” can be debated heavily on with respect to discussions in philosophy and morality, and is not a real valid reason, because nothing is universally good or bad.

#178

Do you smell that?
It’s the burden of proof.

So if what you are saying is true. Then how was everything Adolf Hitler did, good in some way?

#179

Personally, I don’t think that hackers have much advantage over normal players. As discussed above, no clip only works in Nexus, Sprite World and also Ice Cave, and auto-nexus cant exactly save you from a stone mage stack shot or oryx shotgun. Basically, the only hacks that can give slight advantage are fullscreen, no debuff and projectile no clip . Fullscreen can let you see about 3-4 times as many tiles as others, no debuff can block debuffs (but may get you disconnected) and projectile no clip allows one to shoot through walls, hence being a great help in shatters.

#180

deca cracked down on multis alreadly. and, as a multi once told me when i ranted at him/her, “we count as x individual characters, so sometimes i get 8 pbags”

#181

[quote=“BroooMC, post:178, topic:3342”]
Do you smell that?
It’s the burden of proof.

So if what you are saying is true. Then how was everything Adolf Hitler did, good in some way?
[/quote]That’s not relevant. Good and bad are not bound by perspective, morals, anything. They’re just words. I’m sure that someone somewhere could list several “positive” effects from Hitler’s reign, but whether something is morally good or bad cannot be “proven”.

I don’t understand how people keep using this as “justification” for being accepting of hacking. Even if you aren’t in this context, I feel that this needs to be said:

There is no “fair” advantage here. Any advantage gained through hacks by definition is unfair. Draw a solid, clear line somewhere, like what devs do with rules. Don’t leave grey areas or draw faint squiggly lines that accomodate for some if your personal leniencies and not others, because if we all drew our own moral squiggly lines there would be no laws and no civilization. Accept this and you will accept that all cheating is punishable no matter how far it crosses the line.

#182

That would only be true if you could somehow completely sever all ties with humanity and achieve godhood. As long as you are human, there will be things that are unequivocally bad for you. There are a number of bases that will always be necessary to keep humanity alive and maintain a functioning human society. It’s possible to ponder things using a relativist mindset, but it’s impossible to actually live as a relativist.

Then nobody would still be playing this game. If hacking was allowed and not stopped in any way, then the skiddies could do whatever they want, like give themselves admin powers. And just like any pserv, it’d be fun for about 5 minutes then it’d just get utterly boring.

Relativism
#183

I think pretty much all of the hacks that exist have a negative effect in some way towards those who don’t cheat. I’m presenting an alternate argument directed at the stubborn people who believe that a hack may exist that has a non-negative effect on legit players, and that hack is not “bad” even if it breaks DECA’s rules.

I agree. I was presenting an absurd situation that would never happen to support my previous point: that all hacks, regardless of their “goodness or badness” are punishable because and only because they are prohibited by DECA, the owners of the game.

#184

As I’ve been saying in this thread, they also have a negative effect towards those who do cheat, in the sense that hacks prevent them from truly experiencing this game and also possibly from simply moving on and finding a game better suited to their playstyle.

Wait, so on one hand you say that hacks being bad is a purely arbitrary decision by the devs, but on the other hand you admit that decision isn’t actually arbitrary and is based on what’s good for the game as a whole?

This is getting confusing.

#185

What I’m saying is that the people’s agreement that states the line should not be crossed, is arbitrary. However, where the devs place the line is not arbitrary.

The devs decide what is punishable, and it happens that, in this phenomenon of similar interests, the players recognize that the devs make rules for the betterment of the game, and that DECA’s view of a better game is consistent with that of the players’. This recognization, combined with a trust that DECA will make good and sound decisions to achieve this similar interest, leads to the fact that all players should follow the laws laid out by their devs.

#186

I want to congratulate everyone that participated in this thread, it took 174 for Hitler to be mentioned in an internet discussion when it usually takes less than 10. Well done!

I assure you, to lots of people that lived in Germany through those years, what Adolf did was good.

I beg to differ.

And just realized I have nothing to add to the topic at hand. So I’ll shut up now.

Relativism
#187

I love the stuff you said, but I have to remind you that most of us know this. Obviously “hacking” is against the rules or RotMG. Yes its wrong to hack because Deca says no hacking. But what we’re trying to discover here is why else its wrong to hack. Other than the against the rules part which most people (I hope) know.

#188

There’s a lot of other reason IMO that I already listed but…

shouldn’t that be the only reason you need

#189

unfortunately, these can very well give hackers a large advantage. Additionally, these are not the only ahcks possible by any means. Autoloot, while essentially a way for you to pick up your own SB loot faster, can also prove to be ruinous when SKINS DROP IN PUBLIC BAGS I MEAN COME ON DECA. …sorry

ANYway… I know that many people hack in this game ranging from simply being faster than normal to shooting through walls, not taking de-buffs, and essentially becoming unkillable with (another unmentioned one) autonexus. Personally, I couldn’t care less about hackers unless it means they are taking my loot :cry:. Some people want money, some people want fame, some use hacks, some don’t. That’s all there is to it.

#202

Okay this is getting boring. Can we go back to discussing the game instead of going back and forth between you two for 50 replies?

#203

Fine, fair enough. I’ll give you my explanation.

Hacking (Cheating) is having an advantage using a third party program or client that “cheats” the system.
The reason why people do it is because they cannot handle the consequence of perma-death. This game is also very competitive (getting loot). A game so competitive will invariably lead to people cheating and being the best at any cost possible.

The reason it is bad is because it gives a huge disadvantage to players who are willingly try to improve at the game. Ignoring debuffs like armor break, paralyze, confuse gives an great advantage of surviving. New players get a bad influence on cheaters because they think they will improve in this game if they cheat their selves.

#205

Couple things. Can we assume that I’m not a hacker (even if I am or not). The first paragraph is pretty true. The second paragraph is a little wrong IMO. There is no difference in the way you stated between p2w for a pet and hacking. Watch.

The reason it is bad is because it gives a huge disadvantage to players who are willing to try to improve at the game. Ignoring damage in general gives a great advantage of surviving. New players get a bad influence from divine pet buyers because they think they will improve in this game if they buy their own divine pets.

Same thing applies to all p2w. So if your argument applies to most people in the game, how is that a good argument. Sorry this last part is a little cringy.

#206

Difference being that a good Pet can be obtained by simply playing the game, looting stuff and getting fame. I have yet to see a similar in-game way of getting a modified client.

A Pet gives you a huge regen, that’s it. It doesn’t break the game the way a modified client does.

There is also one major difference between p2w and hacks: p2w can be influenced by legit players, because it’s a business model and thus has to work with supply and demand, so if enough people decide to put their money where the mouth is, they can effectively change the way the market works.

Meanwhile, hacking isn’t influenced by anything and can completely sustain itself off of an insular community of inept fucktards.

#207

All of it was nice and I concede the point. But the end was a little rude.

#208

You know, this might seem really assey, but I would suggest Deca just pile up a list of names…allow people to hack for a while, and gather their loot, find their mules and stuff, send their items, pot up their accs…and then DROP THE BANHAMMER ALL AT ONCE.

#209

They’d lose all their paying customers if they started pulling that kinda bait-and-switch.

Also, if they already can’t do all those things now, I doubt they’d have the resources or the time to do them after opening the floodgates.