Dirk of Cronus and Avarice

#1

This isn’t much, mostly just a story and talk about these two daggers. So, one time, during a realm clear for an o3 run, I killed a Cube God and got a Dirk of Cronus. One of the rarest event whites in the game and my fourth ever event white. I was so happy seeing that legendary item. Then a few days later, I see that in the leak for the Elemental Equinox event campaign, which is roughly a couple weeks away at the time of posting, one of the highest rewards is a blueprint for the Dirk of Cronus. After seeing that, I felt empty and sad. All that time leading up to getting that white, only for the world to throw this in my face. It felt insulting and as if the drop never mattered. To add insult to injury, earlier today, I found out that Avarice generally beats out CDirk in terms of both DPS and range. This made me even madder. I get a legendary white bag only to be told I could easily forge it later and then find out that this other dagger is generally better. So why DECA? Why must you treat such a classic legendary dagger with such disrespect? Sure, Avarice has a wavy shot pattern, making it the Colo Sword of daggers, but it’s so small that it barely matters. Either make Avarice a little harder to use or possibly buff CDirk. Not so much where it becomes obviously better than Avarice, but make it more fun to use, like a proc that increases some DPS stat or two shots. It’s like getting an Ogmur only to find out you can get the BP plus this other sword can perma armor break and also stuns. It’s so infuriating. Then again, I am a little bit emotionally charged right now. So please, let me know what you guys think, and try to be as logical as possible. Also, in case any future update comes along that changes this topic entirely, this poll will close in about a week.

  • CDirk is fine
  • Nerf Avarice
  • Buff CDirk

0 voters

#2

What you describe is one consequence of power creep, i.e. the continual addition of items to the game which are better than ones before.

It’s hard to avoid in a game like this. To stop the game getting stale developers add new content. To stop the new content becoming trivial too quickly it’s often harder than older content, much harder. To make it worth doing the drops are improved over previous drops, so previous top items like CDirk are no longer top.

They still have their use. Both are rare or hard to get, so you might only have one of them. Or you might prefer to use CDirk for theming with other purple items, or just to flex as it is really rare. But, yes, it’s no longer the best dagger in the game.

#3

Skandling is right about one thing: powercreep.

If you played RotMG back in the old days, something like Doom + Coral Bows were indeed part of the meta. Time goes on, things changed A LOT. Now it’s either Warmonger or BotV competing for the seats of being BiS, let alone for daggers (especially Avarice versus DoC).

As much as I don’t like the idea of powercreeping, it is needed for the sake of the game’s survivability.

#4

Aside from powercreep, consider that event whites needing to be “good” stemmed from them being rare.
They drop from what used to be the hardest content in the game, which now gets bowled over by a much greater amount of maxed players, with greater power and survivability than way back then.

I think it’s important to ask: does the game really need more drops that follow the “powerful because it’s rare” formula? In particular these randomly spawned enemies, adding additional layers of both RNG and time, should they continue to just…exist like this?

#5

This isn’t even the first time it’s happened. many years ago your “legendary” cdirk would have been completely outclassed by the tradeable and accessible etherite dagger, making it completely useless. No surprises here.

#6

Yeah yeah, I, too, got a Cdirk just last month and literally 2 days later, Niegil leaked a Cdirk BP. I was kind of mad at first, but unlike you, I saw no need to mald too much about a dying pixel game.

Yes, Cdirk is worse than Avarice in every single aspect, and that is completely fine. Now, you might be asking why it is fine, and that is because of a couple reasons.

  1. Cdirk is infinitely easier to get than an Avarice. It’s a lot more rare, but Avarice drops from a dungeon that takes significantly more skill that sitting in a group and clicking on a cube god. Avarice is also basically inaccessible to people who do not use discord to raid.

  2. Even if Cdirk was released as a BP, most people would craft an Avarice anyways since it’s better. There is no reason to craft something worse with the same amount of leg forge, unless said person cannot do an O3.

  3. Not counting pixie type daggers, Cdirk is the second most powerful dagger in the game. And it’s not like the difference between it and Avarice are night and day either, it’s honestly not a difference that you should be malding and batchesting about. Cdirk is still 1/4 and that’s all that matters.

  4. I actually prefer the Cdirk over Avarice, hence why my main character that is my Trickster is not using an Avarice. While the curvature of Avarice’s shots might not be a tall task to learn, it certainly is prone to missing and curving around hitboxes altogether at any range that isn’t max range or point blank. Also, have fun with inconsistent bard buffs.

  5. You’re a couple years late here. Your so called “classic and legendary” dagger has already been dissed by Kablam before. The dagger that shat all over it was called “Etherite Dagger”, not sure if you’ve ever heard of it before. The Cdirk today, IS the buffed version. To call for another buff would be unreasonable since it’s completely usable and totally viable right now.

  6. Cdirk looks infinitely better than Avarice. Anyone that says otherwise lacks a functioning brain.

  7. Have you ever heard of the Corruption Cutter?

#7

Okay, I’ll give you credit in the fact that I didn’t consider Etherite. I knew about the ST dagger, I just kinda forgot about it since it’s so rare and drops from such a specific dungeon. Also the part about it already being buffed.

I agree I was a little heated in the moment of posting. I just felt bad, hearing from older players how cdirk was good only to see this news.

That makes me a little relieved but also sad that this is the level of buff the dagger got. I’m conflicted about this buff.

so true

Yes, I know Corruption Cutter is one of the highest damage dealing daggers. However, it’s only really good at lower DEF enemies, and not everyone has a pogmur/ogmur. Plus, the shot pattern is harder to use, especially with the bug when you swap with other daggers. Sure, I could just bring a pogmur, but I don’t really play assassin. I think Corruption Cutter works as a good dps midgame dagger, but in endgame scenarios is much more situational.

so true

Unlike most players in this game, I’m very passionate and hopeful about it, which is part of why I was so heated about this topic. I want to see this game grow back to fuller severs and not be so imbalanced and old. While you seem to not care, I do, because to be completely honest, I love this game. Seems you don’t, which I don’t hate, but it felt like you didn’t understand why I was so heated and just assumed I’m being stupid, which I’ll admit I kinda was.

#8

I understand where you’re coming from, but one is from one of the hardest dungeons in the game while the other is from a cube that can easily be defeated in 5 seconds and can be perma stunned and paralyzed.
The dps difference is incredibly small (2.242908% more dps) and the 6 wis from cdirk more than makes up for it.

#9

I, as an avid poison fang dagger user, just don’t understand where you’re coming from.

Why do you bother comparing two completely unviable daggers and ignore the only one you should be using? /s

#10

Honestly they should just add piercing to cdirk.

#11

So you are the optimistic type huh? There’s nothing wrong with that. I’m neither optimistic nor pessimistic, I just state things as they are, and as they will be. And from my layperson’s point of view, this game is nearing its shelf life. In fact, it has actually lived far past its expiry date. It would be incorrect to mark you as “a fool” as there is a nonzero chance of this game getting back up from its knees, but it wouldn’t be too far from the truth to call you as such, since the chances of it are low.

Also the strongest point I made was point 1, which you did not address.

#12

cdirk should have 5.0 range (stinger range), 270-300 dmg (285 avg) 70% RoF. That would make it OP in soloing things due to overdamaging Ava on high def enemies, while keeping it obviously worse in situations that need range/group due to ogmur/

#13

I didn’t address point 1 because I had nothing to say on it. I do agree, Avarice is a little harder to get while CDirk is pure RNG, not much skill.

#14

Perhaps DECA can rework Cdirk (not buff) in a way that makes it unique from any other dagger.

I mean, just compare Ogmur and Escutcheon. Neither of them is better than the other. Ogmur is used to armor break the enemy for the group, while Escutcheon is used for dps/stunning. They have their own uses depending on the situation.

Same thing with Polarity and Pogmur. Jugg and Visage (Survival or Dps). Conflict and Arcana (rushing or dps). Balllistic or Kageboshi (idk). Every single one of them is a different playstyle or situational.

Granted, we’re talking about abilities, but DECA has easily proven through many unique weapons (S.T.A.F.F, Doku) that they can introduce a gimmick to every equipment.

While reworking Cdirk would take away from its original charm, reworking the weapon may benefit it more, just like reworked & hardmode Shatters compared to old Shatters. For example:

  • CDirk could become the first weapon to inflict a status effect
  • CDirk could have burst shots, AoE, summons, or even laser beams!
  • Or Extra shots that compliment the main attack! (primal arcana-like)

Honestly, the possibilities are endless with reworking the Cdirk.

#15

It’s very hard to rework weapons, beyond the tried and tested ways (fire rate, damage, range, shot(s) pattern, ignore armor).

  • most stats don’t make sense; att and dex just boost the weapon so you might as well boost its fire rate/damage directly. Other stats are hard to balance, compared to rings, armor etc where you can balance agaist stats on tiered.
  • status effects have to be done very carefully as you can’t have something on every shot. Soul’s Guidance is a good example – it can curse, but it’s so haphazard and slow to do so you can’t rely on it. Anything more reliable though, such as each soul fragment cursing instantly, would be far too OP, essentially perma-curse with no MP cost + not afffected by quiet.
  • changing shots is possible but do it to an existing item and existing owners might feel cheated, especially if it’s a rare item. Better to create a new item with radically new shot patterns
#16

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