Do you like the planned sword nerf?


what lmao

what is the point



Big number = gud at game


Look, I think this post really underlines the difference of opinion that we’re having:

If this is your fundamental view, we won’t ever agree.
I’d try to convince you to dilute this strong opinion by considering O2 as an example seeing as you’ve focused on him quite a lot.

Until the new phases rework, O2 was a joke in a large group as soon as any competent knight got into him with a single stun which opened the door for everyone to pile in. Something was needed to nerf our group powers, hence the rework. We can debate the way this change was done and the mechanics/design/flaws of the new phases but it’s unarguable that O2 is no longer the pinata he once was.

Now if we’re saying that the game as a whole is suffering from an overload of melee (not singly O2, nobody is disagreeing that assassin vs O2 is easymode) then the logic is to address that imbalance for the good of the overall game to keep all classes viable.

This is the reason why people would consider a nerf to melees. If you can accept that idea, then the argument can be focused on: a) are melees OP? My answer: yes, b) is this due to the design of sword? My answer: partly, c) is therefore a sword damage nerf a solution? My answer: somewhat doubtful.

I think there are more fundamental other reasons that have caused melees to become prevalent, so a sword nerf as suggested here, while it won’t increase melee appeal, does little to counter the true underlying problems, so likely isn’t worth all the fuss and arguments when nothing really will change. [Edit: and if the other classes get what look like overstrong buffs at the same time it might be overall a bad update.]

Greed, really, and highlighting the lack of serious consequences from Deca not being tough on cheaters.


I’m ok with the new Oryx because I see it as a buff to him as opposed to a character nerf. If they had just made Oryx stun immune or deal more damage, I would be opposed to it.

As other individuals have mentioned, melee seems to shine in Lost Halls. However, Lost Halls is a dangerous dungeon and deaths are very frequent. I am certainly not the master of Lost Halls but I personally want to be as far away from the crusaders and lost golems as possible. I also think that being far away from void and mbc gives you a little more time to dodge.

Lost Halls can be an extreme grindfest and if I’m being completely honest I think it’s a net loss. A competent Halls player will likely lose their character long before they receive a white. Countless other players have talked about the poor risk vs reward ratio of halls.

Also, this is anecdotal evidence but I am confident that the number of halls runs has decreased (and will continue to decrease). I know at least 3 players that got tired of making new 6/8s for Halls and just burned out.

In addition, I feel that Halls 2.0 was a complete failure. It changed absolutely nothing about how the average player completes halls. Void is a DPS fest and most successful Void runs involve massive amounts of people. Pretty much anything halls related involves massive amount of people.

If you put these two facts together it’s reasonable to conclude that it will become harder to organize hall runs as time passes.

For these reasons I don’t see melee as overpowered. To reiterate my first post, I firmly believe that melee struggle in countless important day to day dungeons (looking at you dirty tombs) and have in increased risk of accidentally instapopping due to their close proximity to bosses. If they are the preferred class for one endgame dungeon that’s fine with me. I’ll be in the rear with the gear.


Tiered bows and high def bosses cough cough


you can feel whatever you want but that won’t stop you from being completely, totally, and utterly wrong in every sense. without even addressing the completely unfair and bland mechanics that got removed, LH 2.0 added the much needed HP scaling to LH. LH 1.0 actually did require a massive group, LH 2.0 can be done in groups ranging from 100 people to 1 person. yes, one person can do everything in the entire dungeon except for void, which can be done with 2 people. Solo cults in particular aren’t that uncommon among the particularly stubborn. I consistently get voids done with groups of 8-10 easily and relatively quickly, while attempting a void with that many people in LH 1.0 would have been considered suicide. the only thing really wrong with LH 2.0 is that it still doesn’t fix the problem of voids only being done in discords or elite guilds, but cults from sentries in realms are totally doable and happen all the time (and usually with less than 10 people without a voice channel too).

anyone with any relevant level of experience in both LH 1.0 and LH 2.0 will tell you that LH 1.0 was garbage compared to LH 2.0.


I’ll have you know that LH 1.0 was great for playing other games while doing halls.

Like town of salem.

Or trove.


Yeah that’s a fat no from me dawg. 2.0 made halls viable in small groups. I’ve dont guild halls runs with 6 people and we’ve done both voids and cults. The voids were challenging but no more challenging than a 60+ person pub halls run. It was fun.

1.0 forced you to use a massive group, and it wasn’t all that fun.
2.0 allows all group sizes to succeed and is a low more fun.


thats a nice dblade to oryx


Instant shotguns are there for a reason, to tell you you’ve made a mistake and try again, this time don’t be an idiot. If you go in a halls thinking you will never get insta-popped, then you’re ignorant and probably suck at the game anyways. Yes, yes I am technically “crazy” in a personality way, but thank you for the compliment. Anyways, back to what you were saying.

  1. Never mentioned anything in regards to shotguns as I’ve leanred from many, many of those and deaths.

  2. I never sit on things that insta kill anymore unless it’s a new dungeon and I don’t know the fight and timing for patterns. so… I’m pretty skilled and do not die to insta-pops like that unless lag plays a role.

Hope you understand where I’m coming from and I hope you don’t sit on something that insta kills you unless you know how long you have before they send out said shotguns.


1.0 forced you to use a massive group, and it wasn’t all that fun.
2.0 allows all group sizes to succeed and is a low more fun.

This is not true.

I never said that 1.0 was good. I’m saying that 2.0 didn’t have the changes that it needed to have.

You can’t solo void. All group sizes can’t succeed.
This also doesn’t change the fact that void is a huge dps wall and it’s just easier to steamroll it with 50+ people.

A proper 2.0 would make void the same level of difficulty regardless of how many party members you have. This isn’t true.


Thats completly inmpossible with the way the game currently works and would remove the co-op aspect of the game.


I feel like you should stop cherry-picking and actually read the entire post.
Remember, this is a red star who JUST GOT BACK INTO THE GAME. He literally states himself that he doesn’t know most of the phases for Tombs, Shatters, and WC.

In the last 8 void runs I’ve seen, with a sample size of 750+ players, I saw 4 deaths.
Although there is a number of players nexusing, nexusing is not the same as dying.

how does a player who knows what he’s doing (like CandyShi), die before getting a white
Whites arent actually that uncommon either in LHs. Out of the 100~ recorded lost halls i’ve done, i’ve gotten 3 whites

you aren’t required to do LHs on 6/8s.
In fact, you can have a 0/8 character and do just as fine as anyone else. Maybe they got burned out from grinding 6/8s instead of actually doing halls

Void is a DPS Fest, but it’s one with EXTREMELY forgiving HP scaling. For every character maxed in offensive stats, he’ll probably be able to cover for 3 0/8 characters as long as he actually shoots the boss
Although it will not require a massive amount of people. When LHZ (rip) was still a thing, it wasn’t uncommon for maybe 20-30 people split runs to be done

there are always new players who will get into lost halls, and with the massive amount of people who are still in the pub halls discord server, i would argue that runs actually have more people than ever before

look, we get it, melees who get close have higher chances to get instapopped. Thats juwst what comes with the weapon. at the same time, they’re able to outdamage everyone else and provide cool effects for the group, like buffs or a stun.


Sorry Candyshi I guess GGadozilla says you’re not competent because your characters died in halls before getting vbow, vquiver, t13 staff, t14 robe.

Just looking at Candyshi’s chars proves Halls is a net loss for most players because they have not been able to recover their lost Omni ring while continuing to lose characters.

2019-01-14 22:29 Wizard 20 4 238 8 584 8 083 239 8/8 LH Void Entity
2018-12-31 01:13 Archer 20 7 459 20 191 14 525 371 8/8 LH Colossus Rock 11


I’m trying to say that if you know what you’re doing, you will get a white before you die.
Can you stop cherry picking please?


Cherry picking is a natural outcome of any forums between two sides. In fact, you are cherry picking as well. Just because you took 2 classes of a debate team doesn’t mean that you can criticize what he is doing.


Let’s take your statistics.

If you got a 3 whites in 100 halls that’s 33 halls per white. That’s pretty darn high for drop rates but we’ll roll with it.

If a single character survives 33 halls it’s in the top 165 halls characters (keeping in mind the dungeon counter is bonkers).

  1. AdultWarri 33 2017-09-22 18:13 9 611 18 768 8/8 shtrs Ice Adept

This is just not normal. Even with your extremely lucky drop rates, your character is far more likely to die before getting a white. If you factor in that you might only want certain whites, Halls is definitely a net loss.


You don’t know that information.

Many people use throwaway chars with little to no whites. (meaning if it dies its not a loss at all.)

Still, you don’t know that information.


Sure I’ll admit, I’m cherry-picking. not nearly as much as Backpedal though
However, I’m not cherry picking to make it seem like I’m directly insulting someone.


Just gonna say this: I could have vaulted that omni long before I died.

I was a ppe. I wasn’t allowed to vault it.

I’ve done roughly 400 LHs if you count my alive characters as well.

I’ve gotten:

1 sword
5 seals
0 potato

2 bow
4 quiv
1 nil
1 source
1 omni

1 staff
1 skull
1 robe
1 ring

and enough wyrms as to where I threw some away.

I like how you assumed I didn’t get whites before I died, you didn’t even ask me.

Also since you like cherry picking: Here’s my current ppe.

Oh would you look at that
I got a cult ring while being super inactive in less than 20 lhs.