Dungeon Tweaks Suggestions:

#1

Some dungeons have good designs, but others… needs serious tweaks to make it desirable at the very least.

Note, this is somewhat an exhausive list of ideas that I came up:

Summary

Abyss of Demons:

After its rework, the TRoom remain untouched other than its spriting. While Vit does make a huge difference for IC/OoC, the chance of TRoom appearing was rather… somewhat pitiful in contrast of UDL, where TRoom appears quite often.

From this issue, I would make the chance Abby’s TRoom appears on par with UDL’s, meaning it would be worth it to look for one.

Cursed Library:

If you happened to soloed Avalon and cleared TRoom, you are guaranteed to walk out with 2 Vit and 1 Wis (and 1 Attack if possible) on your hand. Though there is one particular issue when it comes to TRoom, its pathway is extremely narrow, just 1 square wide when you need to back off especially if you get hit by Cursed + Sicken.

From such issue, I would change its width to 2-3 squares wide to make it easier to back off.

Tomb of the Ancients:

Firstly, activating all 3 bosses at a time is rather… dirty AND dangerous. And beside, some foes does not appear until you get close to them, just like before Abby got reworked.

This one, needs a phat tweak.

  • Firstly, foes should appear regardless hiding in a corner or not. The last you want when rushing is getting jumped by a Jackal Lord and its minions.

  • Second, the Paralyzing, AB, Slow turrets seriously needs to go.

  • Third, Quicksands on their chamber needs to go as well. The last you want is getting trapped by Quickstand and getting AB’ed (Armor Broken, even when the past tense of “Break” is “Broken”, not “Breaked”) + Paralyzed by Nut when she is raging and bunch of shots coming towards you.

  • Fourth, the Worshipping Priest(ess) who are guarding the Sarcs shouldn’t be even inflicting Weak. Literally, it’s just annoying.

  • Fifth, for god sake, get rid off their rage phases, it’s literally anti-melee.

  • Lastly, to tackle the “Dirty Tomb issue”, the 1st shot you land on one boss, it will activate him/her and the others will still circle around their chamber but in Invulnerable and won’t attack. You won’t be able to activate and attack others until the previous boss is killed.

Wine Cellar (aka Oryx 2):

There are couple phases that are just… not well designed.

  • Phase one (Where he fires out his phat Shotgun that can kill anything): Get rid off his minions, last thing you want is getting Confused by them and eats his phat shotgun.

  • Chase Phase: O2 himself will no longer be immune to Slow when chasing other players. Note, he will still inflict Slow as it is now. Retains its Stun and Paralyze Immunity during this phase.

  • Sun Phase: Sun Explosion, its Bullet’s damage and the number of shots gets reduced. This is to encourage more players to tackle Sun Phase yet won’t be cheesable. It will still punishes you for bad dodging, but not severely as it is right now.

    • Explosion’s damage: 250 -> 200 Armor Piercing damage
    • Bullet’s damage: 100 -> 80 AP damage
    • Numbers of Bullets per Sun: 5

  • Dance Phase: Maybe remove his 200+ damage AOE bomb? The Bomb Element will be there as before.

Deadwater Docks:

Seriously, the Crab shouldn’t be even breaking through walls. Or make it at least it can be Slowed.

Ocean Trench:

Foes should be appeared regardless what angle of vision you are on. Nothing else to say.

Dungeons that contains Treasure Rooms (UDL, Snake Pit, Abby, Ancient Ruins, Manor, Sew, DDock, WLab, Puppet, CDepth, PChamber, Tomb and 3D except Lost Halls):

Who hates to see a dude doesn’t call for it when there is one? It does makes sense to be selfish as only 2 dudes gets pots except… a bit too much here?

To tackle this, there will be a pink dot on the mini map where potential TRoom could be at, just like in Lost Halls where you pick up 3 flames to activate the Titan.

  • Ideas are good, though some can be improved even further.
  • Ideas are great! Exactly what we needed.
  • Ideas are meh, but can be improved.
  • Nah, don’t implement them.
  • Something else.
  • Unsure
  • No opinion.

0 voters

#2

Dance Phase would lose it’s “fun”

#3

And yet most dudes leech on Dance phase…

#4

and that’s their fault if they want a fast run

#5

I can handle Dance phase often, but not always.

Your opinion to Sun phase’s nerf?

#6

Generally agree. Only thing is that IF the abyss Troom was more common, I wouldn’t want it to also drop a guaranteed defense, but that’s me personally.

Agreed. The bombs the Corruption Phantom tosses are reason enough to be wary of backing off. Maybe up it a smidge (like making the bomb hit slightly sooner) to offset the newfound ease of leaving the room.

  • Agreed.
  • I’m okay with turrets in the dungeon to a certain extent. The paralyzing turret in the middle of the room should NOT fire their shots as quickly as they do, and no turret should be within 5 tiles of the entrance to any hallway. Other than that, I think they’re fine as is.
  • I think quicksand should (initially) not be in any area where the bosses walks, but present in the area surrounding it. I think it makes for an interesting gameplay problem: go all in, and you won’t face any problems with quick sand. If you got the range, you can shoot from the outside, but it’ll take a long time for the boss to be killed. Alternate between one and the other, and risk getting wrecked by the boss while retreating or advancing. I think as one or two of the bosses are killed, the quicksand patterns appear, but it’s offset by the fact that there’s less bosses to be concerned about. Plus it makes the dungeon feel like it’s falling apart as you kill more of the bosses.
  • If there was a “lower DPS but not straight weaken” option, I’d shoot for that one.
  • I’d say there has to be something similar to O3 where if they rage long enough, they’d momentarily stop to recover (or a second phase of rage where the damage is negligible enough for melees but slightly overwhelming for non-melees), so that Melee’s or extremely paranoid players can get their damage in.
  • I feel like the bosses should be able to have their other non-attack behaviors like the hug phase, or Nut and her heals, and a much lower-consequence attack, like maybe Nut can throw out non-damaging Armor Break bombs, or Bes can slap on Armored on the other bosses. But that’s if the idea gets implemented. I think this is the most “natural” counter occurrence where you avoid shooting something to make something easier, and if it wasn’t so… well, dirty, and so permanent, I’d fully be okay with keeping Dirty Tombs.
  • I just personally hate the fact that the minions HP scale with players, because people seldom deal with them, and if they DO deal with them, it’s usually by coincidence by piercing weapons or missing Oryx. I’d say a lower threshold of scaling HP, at least for the ones he spawns.
  • I can live with it, I can live without it. It’s a “either or is fine” situation.
  • Sun phase is simply a really weird thing to try and address, it always feels like any possible change is both too much and not enough. I think the only thing I personally would like is a visual indicator as to when each sun explodes, but beyond that, I’ll take your solution, though it still feels a bit like a bandaid on a missing limb solution.
  • I think the only change I’d want is removing one Bomb Element (making a total of I believe 6 Bomb Elements rotating around Oryx) and slowing them down. One thing I don’t like about either Dancing Phase (O1 and O2) is that it’s so incredibly difficult to jump in without taking some damage, and it’s usually quite a bit of it. While O1 gets a mild pass because the phase can end to something more tolerable (you know, assuming O1 isn’t immediately steamrolled), with O2, you just got to push it to the next phase, so the ability to jump in relatively easily needs to be present.

The Crab breaking the walls is honestly one of the coolest things that can happen. I want to keep that, personally. But I do agree the Crab should be slowed, but not 100% of the time. So, I know there’s certain phases that the Crab has, so why not utilize it?

  • While it’s wandering, it can be slowed.
  • If it’s shooting out cannonballs and not using crab claw attacks, it cannot be slowed.
  • If it IS using the crab claw attacks, it can be slowed.
  • If it is flashing blue, it cannot be slowed.
  • If something doesn’t fit in here (mostly because I’m forgetting something), it can be slowed.

Also, it should have a boss health bar, it might as well be a boss for how dangerous it is.

Agreed.

I think, for there to be a pink dot on the map, there should be one of two possible scenarios:

  1. Someone just enters the Troom. I think one person seeing the Troom should allow everyone else to also see the Troom, but it’s up to everyone else to teleport towards the Troom.
  2. When the boss is defeated. I would normally not want this, but considering dungeons like Mad Lab, Lost Halls, and Cursed Library show EXACTLY where things are, I think it’d be better to just show the locations of trooms, if any.
#7

Abby: Yes please

While I would appreciate this, I think a big part of the reason for the narrow path is to discourage pets from getting in (of course this can be mitigated in a group by tp-ing in). Electric really shreds in that small area. This might be fine if the added that pet barrier like they have for Janus.

Tomb: Being able to see in tomb and OT (and para for that matter) would be welcome, but I don’t think I agree with your other tomb changes. While I agree the risk/reward does feel a little off in its most common run style (public, less organized) I like the challenge and strategy involved in tombs. Removing turrets would remove almost any challenge in rushing if we grant being able to see enemies.

The boss fight can be unnecessarily tedious if people are silly, but I enjoy trying to organize with people on the occasion I do do tombs. I think LOD suffers in a similar way. Well-designed, but not enough reward for the time it takes (especially in less organized groups).

O2: While the minions are annoying, I kind of like their threat as it encourages team play. A good decoy or stasis (from my two favorite classes :innocent:) pretty much nullifies their threat. I do hate to see a lingering stasised minion confuse someone after he changes phases (esp dance/suns), but that’s a fault of poor awareness.

I wouldn’t mind suns change but Idk. I leeched it until I got better at it. Now I go out after a certain amount of health and get back in rotation after I’m full.

As for dance phase, I love it as is. I’m surprised that it’s easier than an unstunned 01 dance phase. While it is intimidating at first, once you’ve learned the groove it’s super fun.

DD: Being slowable wouldn’t be terrible. There are 3 sets of walls (start ship, shipwreck, boss ship) he can’t mess with, and if I’m on an unmaxed char, I tend to drag him to one of those. I don’t mind he can bash through everything else as long as there is something I can fall back to

Interesting problem! I agree this is annoying. Although I’ll admit I’ve definitely done this before (not often) when people are toxic or I am the only one rushing, I think a better solution would just be to to reveal the T on the minimap when it gets shot at (especially in pup, where he announces he’s been activated anyway :sweat_smile:).

I am pretty surprised to see no mention of UDL. In a dungeon where you can see almost everything, skeletons exist that can easily pop up and insta a character with unmaxed def :sweat_smile:. Also, return slimes to their former glory :sob:. I remember when I started playing that was the most intimidating part of UDL (maybe other than Septavius’s tiny invisible bullets). Now they are some of the biggest pushovers.

#8

I’m not sure but I think the abby and UDL have equal rates - it’s just that abby are bigger and harder to rush? maybe.

I think this is intentional to discourage backing off and make the fight more dynamic.

For tombs I agree with a need for a rework - but only because the majority of the realm doesn’t do tombs. I, for one, really like the design of the tomb but it does have some flaws, chiefly being the pain of running them without a rusher. maybe if they did what LH did with cults and lowered the amount of sarcs needed.
Also dirty tomb is iconic I hope it never goes away.

For oryx 2 the only phase that I think could be redesigned is suns - everything else is reasonable.

I don’t like the idea of marked trooms - to me that’s not the point of them. I feel like they exist as surprises in a monotony of farming the dungeons for pots etc.

As for the enemy visibility thing - I’m unsure how much of that is related to the coding of the game and key mechanics so no comment there.

#9

Mhm, or Abby would be too profitable again like before. It does make sense for it to be rare at the same time as it drops 2 guaranteed pots.

That… would be more dangerous than now.

I… don’t get it.

Definitely yes.

The sun explodes on nearest player, not like what we have from O3’s Meteor phase (and it’s telegraphed BTW). I am guessing that you said you do accept my idea but not completely…

Interesting…

#10

I think I may have mis-explained. Right now, there’s quicksand already surrounding the main bosses, as well as quicksand that’s IN their actual circle they walk around in. My suggestion combines itself with the later suggestion, how only one boss is active at a time. I think quicksand in where they walk should only appear when one or two of the bosses are taken down. Quicksand surrounding the bosses is fine with the addition that only one boss is active at a time.

Basically, instead of weakens, they’d lower your attack stat by, say 5. Not a straight weaken that sets your attack to 0, but still a noticeable decrease to your damage output.

I just think suns in general needs a complete rework. As I said, any change to suns feels like it’s too much AND not enough, and I think that’s partly the reason why. Truth be told, it’s one of those things where I know the current state of suns isn’t good, but I don’t know how to make it work.

#11

I was agreeing, before tomb of ancients. I am not going to write a lot as I am on my phone but except for the always appearing foes corner or not every ideas are just your personnal weaknesses against every dungeon and bosses and I personnaly think these dungeons are well balanced. Especially for O2. I think you did not understand whats the goal of a “dance” phase. O2 is to my perspective well balanced now. For the trooms, some people call them, some people dont, thats how realm goes, if you’re unhappy with that you can always solo dungeons.

#12

I think part of the reason for differences in rarity is that the Abby Troom can only be entered from the south, in contrast to the UDL, which is much more versatile. (I do wish that they were more common, as someone who goes the full length to clear an Abby looking for one.)

I disagree with this one. With the inclusion of the targeted AoE grenades targeted at the entrance for anyone entering or existing, I believe that this was very much intended to be a “do or die(/nexus)” fight. People should focus on dodging the shots over tanking them with the punishing sick effect. There’s a lot of gaps in the fight, so I don’t think even think that’s unreasonable to expect.

I agree with the first point.

I’ll have to side more with the other comments on the second point. I could live with turrets spawning a little farther away from hallways, but I don’t even normally mind that as much.

For that matter, the only point I somewhat agree with is the rage phases. I don’t think they should be easy, but the only time I’ve ever been able to solo a tomb completely with a melee was with my pirate warrior st with its cannonball proc, and a random knight, because I was vigilant about stunning all the way through the rage passes (and admittedly got lucky with Geb’s positioning, as he likes to run away.) Everything else is avoidable with good planning, and don’t currently feel the need for a rework. I like having it as the heirloom of a bygone era, but that’s a personal bias.

Not a fan of most of what’s here either. I suppose that I wouldn’t be mad if they got rid of the shotgun as a first or last phase, but the minions don’t even bug me either, at least for how the dungeon currently operates.

I don’t think the chase phase needs tweaking. The deadliest I’ve ever seen that phase be is if he’s circling decoys and repeatedly slamming the masses with the AoE blasts intended for those who would otherwise try to chase him from behind.

The Suns phase is widely acknowledged as being heavily flawed. In my couple of times soloing O2, I find that that phase is perfectly manageable, since you’re the only one that the suns are targeting. However, when you have players that are “leeching” (I don’t blame them) and/or weaving in and out of the bullet “arms,” the phase that would otherwise be sensible is unfairly chaotic. Sometimes I can get a rhythm going and stay inside, but not usually. I do think that a new, similar pattern is do, but one that doesn’t target, at least, not in the same way.

Nah, dancing is fine. I do it on my NPE, even. It’s certainly not the easiest of his phases, but in contrast to what was said about having trouble getting in, I feel that that has more to do with your timing. I can dance on any class, no matter how slow or squishy. I think it’s more that people aren’t brave enough try it out, or possibly giving up after a couple of failed attempts. I’ve sometimes wished that there was an anti-leech mechanism, though I can’t think of anything O2 level difficulty that would suffice to do anything but push leechers back against the walls.

Personal preference, but I actually love the crab being able to do that. And as was mentioned, there’s still places to fall back on that it can’t break through.

Yeah, kind of like the Tomb, and everywhere else, really.

I don’t think the Trooms should be marked, even as someone who is greatly annoyed with the hunt for STs found almost exclusively in those rooms. Players would likely skip out on dungeons before they started because “there weren’t Trooms.” You also lose the need for exploration, especially as a veteran, well versed in the algorithms of a type of dungeon.

As for callers, why shouldn’t they be rewarded for exploring the dungeon, rushing or no? I feel even less sympathy when considering those who loaf around at spawn waiting for a few others to do all the work. I don’t even care if they’re under-leveled or “scared,” as I often hear when asking; they have little business being there if they can’t currently handle it if that’s the case, in my opinion!

I don’t mean to sound scathing, but it’s irked me for a very long time. Also, I’m only speaking of this in regards to the lesser and medium dungeons. I don’t think this is nearly as much of a problem for larger, deadlier arenas.

#13

These ideas have a point but some of them feel way overdone. Everything is just a nerf to the difficulty. Especially o2. Chase is completely fine as it is, and dance would lose all difficulty with the changes

#14

Hold on… Sprite World is missing TRoom, unlike other GLand dungeon that does have TRoom.

#15

Honestly yeah. If snake pit can have a troom sprite could have one, too. Although no snakes drop potions/uts like the greater sprites within the dungeon. Would be cool, but I think it’s pretty balanced as it is. If you clear the dungeon you’re getting at least one ATT and sprite wand in addition to the boss’ drops.

#16

Well, sprite has a sort of troom

#17

??? The Easter egg rooms? Is there actually a specific room type where you can expect loot? I was unaware.

#18

The consolation of draconis from this year’s arg gives you a mystery stat pot

#19

Ahhhhh fair. But don’t you have to skip out on Limon to get there?

#20

You can kill lemon first