There’s no money loss. The majority of people in halls runs prob could do a 30-40 person run so the discords won’t die and so people will continue to buy keys. Plus the point isn’t to make it impossible or even very difficult. 30-40 people is still a lot. It just means that not everything is instakilled and the entire dungeon isn’t turned from the final endgame dungeon to a fucking joke like it is right now.
I like the idea but the issue is that player cap is easily exceeded when a bunch of people enter a halls at the same time - you see this in large halls runs already where 100+ people go in.
people still die all the time from this carelessness as it will only take 3-4 shots to kill you on any class (primarily in void but through many other means too), with that in mind I would say it is definitely high risk, tons of people die frequently in halls and in honesty you don’t play it that much different from even a solo let alone the group size you are talking about minus the ability to leech in enemy rooms. Also, the equips you have mentioned would get you kicked from the dungeon, would get you killed, or would slow the process for everyone if you did manage to make it. At its core its a team reliant game and that’s not a bad thing, while loot tables should be improved for lower player counts to reward skill you act as if group runs ruin the game when it’s how the game has been played from day 1. Hall cap won’t change anything either as we see how when fungal’s cap was low it was just bypassed by immediate enter, but your premise is flawed. U also don’t even have a single character with 4 equips so consider fixing that situation (maybe by doing some halls!) before u talk about game balance changes
First thing I want to address is that carelessness does not make a dungeon difficult or make it high-risk because that is entirely on the player not from the difficultly of the dungeon. Also, doing 5 man voids is definitely different as opposed to doing bigger halls because you have to maintain a void platform and actually contribute to the group as opposed to leeching with godlands gear and getting this loot. Also the t0 gear was meant to point out the fact that getting soul bound in this “endgame” dungeon is not very difficult. This has happened to me and others before /kick was an option. To address the Halls cap, Deca stated that they would fix this issue in the Unity Port (idk if they actually will though just going off their word). Finally, I don’t have any characters because I stopped caring about the game after realizing how boring this game was. I did stupid shit on all my characters until they died so that I could quit the game. When I still played actively I ran frequent 5-8 man voids when bored. I only made this post after quitting this game so I don’t really give a fuck what happens next. I just wanted to get my opinion out there.
And this will probably promote hacking even more as people who can’t do halls won’t be able to learn to do it as you said. Not everyone has the patience, time, or cares enough…
Also, one big issue, 30-40 halls, in my opinion would be best done for full skips, clearing would just take very long, and I’m not sure that there will be enough qualified RLs for that. Or if every raider is comfortable.
They definitely need to do this for ever dungeon (except wc) and make it impossible to bypass. No dungeon needs more than 10 people, let alone 85
more than 10 looool
dude u realize lowering the cap would do nothing especially in max eff we litterally sit on the same spot till their baz cooldown goes down to 0 and we all enter at the same time, preventing the cap from working.
we have gotten 120+ ppl in runs (way higher than cap).
pub halls on the other hand this would prob be more effective there
I find this sort of mentality very strange. No one is obligated to be able to clear halls as easily as a pirate cave.
This is like, “man I need to be able to reach Global Elite in CS:GO” and so you download an aimbot to do so. Getting to that rank in CS:GO would normally expect you to actually get good at the game. In the same vein, the expectation for an ENDGAME dungeon, especially one that is currently THE endgame dungeon, should require you to actually get good.
Do you not see how silly the endgame of RotMG is if the expectation is that everyone can run it without having to spend the time to learn the dungeon?
And of course, my comparison with the highest competitive ranking in CS:GO is an exaggeration for dramatic effect, as to learn Lost Halls really takes much, much less time than that.
If you don’t care enough to learn a difficult dungeon, then it’s not a surprise you are not obligated to receive the loot at the end of the dungeon.
If you don’t have the patience to push through potential defeat and failure, and through running the dungeon slower than if you had a 100+ man steamroll group, then you can opt to not run the dungeon (additionally, this might ease the effect LH has had on the economy ever since its release, without needing to nerf pot drops; feels a lot better to have to actually fight for your loot and get something, rather than still take a decent amount of time for a dungeon and get something worse than the dreaded 2m with a loot nerf).
The only other issue is time taken to learn the dungeon, perhaps more limited to people busy with work/school, and I think that inherently this is not too bad of a thing. Endgame in RotMG is already reached at such a fast pace, and time/practice invested into the game should pay off. Not everyone will be punching at the highest rankings, I’m sure not a top player for example, and that’s fine by me.
also re: everyone discrediting the idea because dungeon cap can be bypassed, you do realize Deca is planning to fix that in the future right.
I do agree with some of the stuff you said, such as that end game RotMG shouldn’t be reached with ease, however, also note that a lot of people don’t want to do a full clear void run with only 30-40 people. Unless more and more RLs are competent enough to do full skips, I don’t think this is a good idea.
It would greatly prolong the time taken to do a hall for the low drop rates of whites that some people might find, as a result it would be less rewarding.
And as long as RotMG is not getting new players, the majority’s mindset would be quick and fast and smooth lost halls raids, and if you nerf that you’ll have a lot more other things to nerf as well. Might even have to bring RotMG economy and items drop rate back to what it was like 2 years ago, when not everything was so common and devalued.
I don’t think you have an understanding of what Lost Halls was supposed to be. It was supposed to be the legendary end game dungeon. A replacement to the shatters which has gotten much too easy. Instead, what it has turned into is an absolute joke. Equal to a slightly weaker fame train with loot. Plus, similar to fame trains, it requires no skill is only vulnerable to the instakill every once in a while.
Second off, the whites in Halls are like the whites from Shatters. Just because it was difficult does not mean people were not willing to run it. Why? Because the whites are amazing. Almost every single lost halls white should have a high value but they don’t. Why? Because it requires nothing to get them. It’s why a lot of the previously god teir items are no longer looked upon nearly as much as they once were and many things that should be at the same level as event whites are thought of as much less. With chest events came the mowing down of dungeons with or without caps (I’m sure it existed before but not at nearly that extent) and now dungeon whites have no meaning. I remember when Pyra used to be a highly valued item instead of just feedpower.
Plus the difficulty of halls isn’t just the bosses. Like every dungeon, much of the difficulty of a dungeon should also be with the minions. Right now, minions mean nothing. They get mowed down by groups of 80 people and provide almost no threat except for the occasional instakill, which normally occur because people don’t worry about taking precautions and assume that pure firepower will be enough of a defense. If you can skip rooms by avoiding minions, then that’s a skill that is mastered and you deserve to be able to skip rooms. If you can’t skip rooms, then you don’t deserve to be able to run fast halls, something that is your fault. Plus, it would also likely help the economy.
Finally… HALLS IS SUPPOSED TO BE ENDGAME. That means it should take SKILL. If multiple groups of TWO PEOPLE are capable of duoing void and you can’t defeat void in a group of 20, that means that you’re group of twenty either do not have the survival skills or dps to compare with those two people and if that’s the case, you should reconsider if you deserve to be running an endgame dungeon and potentially receiving some of the best possible gear in the game. Plus he’s not even talking 20, the suggestion is 30-40 so if you can’t complete, perhaps the problem is in the group and not in the dungeon cap.
Truthfully, I personally believe every game should have a 20-30 person cap because there is no dungeon that can’t be run by 20-30 competent group of 6/8s with maxed rare pets.
Ok, first of all, I’m gonna disagree with how lost halls whites have no meaning, because they are still rare. While the chest event increases the amount of halls raids, the chests themselves still drops shit loot. In addition, about 100 people enters a lost halls, less than half finishes the void, and one out of those can sometimes get a white, so that is a quite small percentage of people, and not counting deaths and stuff because they do happen at times, I have had a failed void run where we had about 30 people but when one platform collapsed everyone else panicked and moved elsewhere and the void eventually failed due to overspawned minions. So no, lost halls aren’t exactly easy for the majority. It still requires a lot of attention and you have to watch where you are going and can’t just tank everything, so it is still quite an intense experience, (MotMG aside).
Also, I think you might be mistaking about the fact that lost halls minions can just be mowed down by 80 people, unless it’s 80 hackers I really don’t think that’s how it works. Try to do a full skip without mystic or knights with 80 people and you will quickly find yourself be the only one left soon or later lol, unless you are very lucky. If everything can be mowed down so easily then why in full skips brain tricksters are needed and required to stay behind and keep enemies out of the boss room? And why does the RL have to tell the group to stop and go in different rooms when there is over 100 people? I mean couldn’t they all just run into an oryx room and kill everything lol? I have had a failed MBC run where a crusade commander was dragged into the boss room and insta popped 3-4 people, and we went from 60 people to 20 in 10 seconds. Same thing when you get multiple enemies dragged in one room while clearing, so no lol, and there is also hp scaling.
While what you are saying about players should deserve their loot based on their skill is true, the majority will not find that to be very persuasive, everyone want the best possible loot they can. And in the cases of event white, that’s not true either, a shatters soloing world record player could spend months grinding for an event white and not get it lol, and I would say that jugg is probably better than most of the lost halls whites.
The problem is, people will not back down from something because they aren’t good enough, they will try to seize every opportunity possible to get the best loot in the easiest way, once they have gotten it then perhaps it is a different story. So instead of capping halls you might as well come up with another end game dungeon that is much harder than the lost halls and would give even a 100 man discord raid difficulties lol.
So perhaps instead of forcing down the number of players you could increase the difficulties.
I actually agree with this in part mostly to the fact that I lag like crazy in mbc when theres over 70 people. A 40-60 cap would let me survive every time lol
So the problem is competence… You haven’t proved a point at all. People panic which shows a lack of competence which wouldn’t be there if the people who were running knew what they were doing. Plus… how’d you lose a platform with 30 people? 30/4 means 7 to 8 ish people per platform and with that group, failing to clear with a group of 7 to 8 people should be a sign of lack of skill…And sure, there’s hp scaling but it’s like 10% per person whereas damage scaling should be approximately 100% if everyone was at least maxed atk/dex (prob more like 80% because not everyone playing optimal) but forcing a lower cap would force more people to play more skilled classes.
Increasing the difficulty changes nothing if you can just add more people to deal with the new difficulty level. Plus, halls shouldn’t be a dungeon based off how much you’re computer can stand, it should be based off you’re skill level.
When the four splits happened, something most likely went wrong on 3 of the platforms, might have to do with classes and stuff, anyways people on those 3 platforms not only failed to kill the minions but also nexused, well, at least most did and a few people died while trying to cross. And they basically were all aborted at once, so then us remaining 30-ish people who gathered on the last platform had to literally deal with about 10+ big minions, because the small ones weren’t killed previously, and everyone basically had to run around and doge and of course nobody made it, I was one of the very last person to nexus and kept on crossing till there was too many minions.
What do you mean a more skilled class? Melees aside I think every class takes about the same amount of skills, sure personal preferences might vary, and even melees requires you do aim and doge a lot better.
And it rises up a bigger issue, what if there was 30-40 people who aren’t good at halls? Doesn’t that make the hall fail automatically? Since you don’t have anymore to make up for? And also one point I’m trying to emphasize is full skips.
If people aren’t good at halls, they shouldn’t be able to complete halls. If you’re not good at doing a dungeon, you either learn with others or shouldn’t be running anyway… I’m not talking about skilled classes, I’m talking about skilled people.
when you say skilled people, do you mean dps people? LH is still pretty much a dps timer, same for minions. The skills you’re talking about involve mostly high dps and pet tanking sustenance, so in the end you’re kinda talking about classes, stats maxed and pet level, not inherent skills.
If there are petless duo void without high dps classes like paly + warrior, then forget what I just said, but otherwise, it’s not just skills.
Don’t get me wrong, skills are involved too, and I agree on lowering dungeon cap, but removing the pet/class/stats from your equation makes imo no sense.
Also, one thing that bothers me a lot in LH is that there is no real sign of DPS difficulty. Like for instance, in epic pcave, you have the wall, so if you don’t have enough dps, you don’t waste your time trying to do boss, but in LH, you go in realm with unmaxed players, and nothing tells you you need maxed stats or good pet, you just figure it out in boss after 30min of clearing mobs.
Of course its not just skill. Stats and pet level do matter but thats part of the point. As a endgame dungeon, it should require a strong pet and maxed stats. If you could do it without, then its not endgame.
I’d rather have endgame dungeon with pet stasis everywhere to be honest, that is imo more endgame that just make non dodgeable stuff that you need pet/priest to tank up. But in any case, pet do make the most of the skills you’re talking about, and the maxed stats is not sufficient either, as you can’t duo void with 2 priests, even with divine pet and 8/8
edit : but I’m diverging the topic so I guess I’ll stop there, in any case, way too big groups are a problem, and having a dungeon cap would be a good thing after the bypass limit gets fixed too
Im also for pet stasis in halls. Although you can’t duo with 2 8/8 priests with divine as there is a dps cap, we aren’t talking about expecting everyone to complete two people runs, we’re talking about caps of 30-40