Honey Sceptre needs a buff

#14

Yay! I’ve been studying for years to become smarter than most protistic fungal life!

#15

Seems weird that it doesn’t Slow, when the orb which drops from the same dungeon does. I’d be fine with both Honey Sceptre and Fulmi doing Slow, to give players an easier alternate route to get a slowing sceptre.

Then we’d have a slow sceptre that does junk dmg but is easy to farm (Honey Sceptre).
And a slow sceptre that does good dmg but is white bag rarity (Fulmi).

#16

I don’t think that’s okay, the honey scepter is garbage and it should be. it’s on the same tier as snake skin armor, poison fang dagger, and crystal skull. also the entire point of fulmi is that it slows at all, even if it only did 50 damage it would still be the best one.

imo everyone is lucky it even hits more targets than tiered ones, being a midgame UT it could very easily just be a mid-tier scepter in between t4 and t5 or something.

#17

They could always make its Slow duration shorter than Fulmi, to maintain Fulmi’s primacy.

Fulmi is 180dmg, 3sec slow, 7 targets, 65MP (1260 max dmg output: 19.4 dmg/MP)
Honey could be 100dmg, 1.5sec slow, 10 targets, 90MP (1000 max dmg output: 11.1 dmg/MP)

That is all true, but doesn’t address how Honey Orb, from the same boss, does Slow yet the Honey Sceptre doesn’t. It’s the inconsistency annoying me more than anything else!

Couple that with the strong theme of honey=slow all throughout that dungeon, and it’s fairly odd they didn’t give the sceptre Slow. Did the Fat Bees use some kind of non-stick honey when they were making the sceptre having used up all “the good stuff” on the orbs?

(A parallel though less-strong example of another boss who drops 2x UT abilities, Ivory Wyvern: Morning Star & Helm of Draconis - both do Paralyse, though the “paralyse theme” is hardly something associated with Ivory in the way that Honey/Slow is with The Hive.)

#18

I actually like that, it gives room for more originality in a single dungeon’s UT’s and also spreads the UT’s that work most similarly around so you have to run different dungeons to get them. some more examples along these lines:

  • sprite drops EP and Plane, they have literally nothing in common except for drop location

  • esben skull fulmi and honey orb are all basically the same thing, but have totally different drop locations. they’ve even got each one on a different “game tier”, too. event dungeon, godland dungeon, and midland dungeon.

  • condu and leaf bow are also basically the same thing, but one drops in a godland dungeon and the other in an event dungeon.

  • dbow and ass, yet again basically the same concept, but dramatically different drop bosses

  • snake pit, all of stheno’s cyan bag drops have the theme of “speed” with them, but bulwark does not. in fact it’s one of the slowest weapons out there, and it’s not even green like the others. (not that I mind)

  • puppet theater, harle promotes ability spamming and heavy mp reliance. dancing swords prism promotes strategic use over mindless use. the two do not work that well together

I’ll admit the thematic honey=slow association is stronger in the hive than anywhere else, but the argument of “thematic inconsistency” has always seemed like a very weak argument to me. if it helps you can think of it this way:

honey is sticky, so the scepter hits more targets because the lightning is “stickier” than normal and lasts longer.

#19

See, this is the kind of closed-mindedness I hate about some players in the game. @Nevov agree with me here, Sprite wand has higher and more reliable “Doku-style” DPS against high defence and wide bosses which can be hit easier by the shots, such as Thessal and Avatar.

Why are you so protestant upon a conversational idea and say “doesn’t need a buff, that’s it”?

#20

Because he’s right. The Hive is a much lower level dungeon than any of the other examples stated, even the Sprite World. It was made with the same design philosophy as the Cracked Crystal Skull. It fills a unique — albeit not too useful — role that can be helpful for newer players but doesn’t serve much of a purpose in the endgame. It was never meant to have an application for experienced players.

As for the idea of making it inflict Slow, that would just make it a common version of Fulmi. Let’s face it, nobody uses Fulmi for the damage it deals, they do it to spread Slow easily. To make it come from the Honey Scepter as well would be thematically fitting, yes, but it would also throw a wrench into the progression of scepters. Why farm Labs to get Fulmi if you can just run a couple easy Hives and get the same thing?

#21

Well, we aren’t given a choice, when the one slowing sceptre also is the one with the best dmg output. :relaxed:

So many times I see it being said that “sorcerer is useless without fulmi”, meaning without slow powers. So to draw the sting (ahem) from that: put slow on an easier to find item.

I guess my schooling in the era where you didn’t “need” to farm only one location taints my view of this. In general I hate the idea of there being only one source for almost every UT causing repetition to farm your desired item. Seemingly Deca kind of acknowledges that, if their putting UTs in event chests is anything to go by.

#22

I’m not a fan of how scepters are balanced either, but until the Sorcerer gets a complete overhaul, things need to be balanced with all scepters in mind. Unless you’re looking for easy SB in a train, the damage from scepters is rarely worth using. Fulmi is blatantly better in every possible way, most notably because it inflicts Slow. That’s the main draw, so it would be foolish to give the same effect to something as common as the Honey Scepter.

#23

Actually sprites are much easier than Hive.

Well, I think honey scepter does need a buff because its counterpart, the orb is seemingly better than the scepter.

#24

I agree with your point buuuuuut bone dagger is good af

#25

Well fulmi costs 65 mp and the honey scepter costs 90

#26

There are quite a few wrenches stuck on the progression of scepters already, but I get your point.

#27

Fair enough; could we give the honey sceptre a few more targets then so the extra 25 dmg/mp actually goes somewhere though??

#28

no they’re not.

sprite world tiles have a much greater and worse impact than the honey, which takes forever to make a noticeable difference anyway. furthermore Limon is far more dangerous than the queen bee, Limon is faster, more agressive, and more powerful than anything the queen can do. lastly, sprites have the dreaded native sprite god, which fires 4 100 damage bullets per attack, plus the quieting shot.

both dungeons are a joke to maxed players, but the sprite world is still far more difficult.

and there’s nothing wrong with that. if we made the Conducting wand as good a wand as Scepter of Fulmination is a scepter we would probably break the game. same thing goes for Crystal Sword and Crystal Wand, there will always be a “better” UT among those that share drop locations with another. just deal with it.

#29

Yes, the Hive is a walkover compared to Sprite. You stand still long enough you can take a lot of damage but that’s true also of the Snake Pit.

As for Honey Sceptre having used it a couple of times it really is underpowered. Good perhaps for a new char with a decent pet, so you can just spam it to kill everything around you and quickly level. But way too underpowered for e.g. gods and mobs with serious amounts of HP. Nothing obvious that can be done though; adding any status effect would make it OP, and Fulmi already has the most obvious one, slow.

#30

Wait how is sprite harder than hive?

I legit cannot do hives at all.

Also

I can’t do snek pits either.

#31

…what does hive have that sprite doesn’t that makes it so hard? I did one with a level 17 ninja once and it wasn’t that bad. I don’t understand your problem.

#32

For poison fang, why don’t we just give it the shoot-faster buff from Obsidian Dagger while making Obsidian dagger normal?

It would make Poison Fang legit, while Obby fits miore as a tiered dagger.

#33

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