Is it better for bosses to be challenging or fun?


I recently went into a WC and was reminded of just how obnoxious some of the fazes are. The group ended up with a sun phase and dance phase. This brought up the question to me, Is it better for these phases to be fun and interesting or challenging? Personally I think that it is better to be fun. My favorite dungeon is Davies because I feel it brings in lots of unique and interesting mechanics without being too difficult. I do like some challenge but where is the line of the point where it is too challenging due to too much damage, too many shots, too long, etc. to be fun. I think that several of the new Oryx phases, primarily the dance and sun phase step over this line and aren’t fun to do because I’m too scared to go in. What are your thoughts?


When it’s challenging it is fun.

I have never done a Lost Halls, but the fact that the MBC fight is literally how a bullet hell should be makes it look really enjoyable.
Same goes for Oryx 1 and Oryx 2’s Dancing and Daze phase.


I’m actually very fond of the dancing and daze phases of O2. They’re both challenging and manageable if you know what you’re doing; you’ll likely end up taking minimal to no damage if you can circle or “dance” properly during those two. The sun and chase phases feel out of place for me; they usually end up being very unpredictable and are more up to chance than actual skill.


I personally think that a middle should be found indeed.
Davy’s, in my opinion, is too easy. With enough DPS, the fight amounts to not getting Paralyzed while he’s un-Stunned. (And the DPS requirement is low…)

I was going to say something about the Dance 3 phase as well, but @Aurum beat me to it, essentially describing exactly how I feel about them as well >u<

I find some parts alright, but the constant barrage of status effects is maybe a bit much at times. Would’ve been interesting if some phases relied less on the Pillars, and more on the Colossus itself…


yes challenge is fun, but where is the line where it becomes frustrating instead? If there was a boss who just constantly spewed out bullets of high damage all around him with high range, chases after players and inflicts various status effects such as confuse and paralyze be fun to fight? In my opinion, no.

edit: The fun factor of a challenge comes from good design imo and what I’m asking is are these phases well designed or just a 10 year old throwing in high damage bullets everywhere?

I don’t doubt this but don’t you think its a bit scary to try for the first time when you know that the eyes that circle him can kill in a matter of seconds even at full health? Once you know what to do I’m sure its easy but I find it hard to learn when I could lose my precious 8/8 with one wrong step.


A boss can be both challenging and fun.

It’s all up to experimenting with the bullet hell patterns and how the status effects (if any) will affect the battle.

Considering Survival phases, the best way to pull it off is having it as a “last stand” sort of thing with intense bullet hell, not necessarily long and should be kept as the last phase of the boss, unless stated otherwise, like the Forgotten King’s Tentacles phase, through the problem is that if your group doesn’t have enough DPS, the phase drags on for way too long, and not to mention the fact that the phase itself isn’t dangerous at all given the really slow movement the Tentacles have.


The dance phase could certainly be better. Giving people small transition periods to get into the circle every 10-20 seconds would be great. There is one small gap that can be used to get in the circle though with a single one missing from the enemies that circle O2.


Challenge is what makes bosses fun, otherwise it just becomes a procession after 20 times.


Except for the part where RotMG doesn’t work as a bullet hell.


Well, on the other hand, perhaps the reason you were afraid is because you were running an 8/8. It’s not fun to fight something challenging you’re too afraid of dying but I think that’s a major flaw in the way you think. What was the purpose of creating that epic charachter? Hopefully not so you can recognize easy patterns and just do them over and over again. I think that part of the game should be having fun with dodging when you aren’t sure what you’re supposed to do


My answer to this is…



Things should be challenging enough to be not too boring.
Yet not so challenging that nobody (or 90%+) bothers doing it.
Difficult to calibrate due to the range of player experience dependent on how strong a heal pet you have.

BTW if you want a discussion specific on the O2 Sun Phase, there is a recent one at: Please fix oryx sun phase


Why not both?


tbh the chase phase is actually fun if you dont have a veeery squishy class. It brings a little more life to the o2 fight. Of course, the dance phase is incredibly dull for a melee.


If anything, I’d imagine it being more dull for ranged classes that can’t (or refuse to) enter the ring.
Could you elaborate a bit more on it? ,’:|


The only thing i found odd about Oryx is that the Simulacrum has way more unique phases than the WC Oryx, heck, one of the phases is just a harder Dance phase.

I’d like to have both swapped, i find the thing with the White and Black planets, and Assassins more fitting for the Real Oryx rather than having cacodemon ripoffs and random exploding suns.



You mean the little suicide bombers? Wouldn’t they be closer to Lost Soul ripoffs then?

If you actually try to get in and do the phase on ranged, you have very little space to dodge massive amounts of damage. Melees on the other hand are built specifically for this type of situation and thus have a much easier time.


well lost souls are just a rip off of grey blobs so not really.

yes, and other phases such as the sun phase are a nightmare to get in on, no one class has an easy time the whole fight which imo is good in that any class has a phase where they can get their damage but also bad in that everyone who doesn’t have that specialized class has to just wait around for him to get damaged out which could take several minutes.


Fun is most important, but that’s not the same as a boss being easy. I love Oryx 2’s dance phase because it’s not only very dangerous, but it’s 100% skill based (unless someone drags one of those confuse monsters in like they always do, deca pls fix). If I get hit that’s my own fault, and doing the phase while not getting hit is fun. Plus I get to show off in front of other people.
The other side of the coin is the suns phase, which is hard but not very fun. You just take damage and a priest heals you through it. There’s no pattern to learn, you can’t dodge it (in a group) and it’s just plain boring.