Lair of Draconis Rework


#92

Limoz’s shields in the last shield phase give xp

in Nikao’s whack-a-mole phase his inherited shots make it very difficult to get past him if you’re a close range class unless you resort to an unhealthy amount of facetanking (especially for red). this, coupled with his low surface time, makes it take a very long time to beat that phase if you aren’t a ranged character. you could reduce the RoF of his inherited shots, his targeted shotgun, or reduce the size of his targeted shotgun, or some combination of the 3.


#93

By balances out you mean that it’s much more dangerous than the other options?

I wanted each inheritance for Pyyr to be different from each other (slow/blocks/damages) and Feargus being the Pet Stasis wind dragon that he is I settled on turret like tornadoes. In earlier builds they used to be much weaker than they currently are so it seems like I might have overbuffed them. I’ll likely take another look at it after PT.


#94

@seelpit managed to solo on warrior with bad pet iirc, I haven’t tried with no pet / low lvl but warrior can definitely juke the shots.


#95

I have done some more runs, and done each dragon last atleast once, through it’s quite varying depending on which order you choose the dragons that lead up to the last dragon, i can say that by difficulty the order would be Feargus > Pyyr > Nikao > Limoz.

The Wyvern is way too easy compared to any of the dragons if they are last, some key problems are that the dragon statue that assist the Wyvern barely gives any aspect of danger, it’s just an annoying turret with a few shots, i’d suggest having the dragon statues act the same way as a chase phase from the original dragon (without the inherit of shots from other dragons), through, they can be destroyed and they will rearm themselves after some time (15s?) to continue chasing, until the Wyvern is finally defeated.

Second is that the Wyvern should have an infinite chase range, while stopping from time to time, he should be able to reset chase regardless on how far away you are from him, also, the last phase with the mirrors should be reworked, removing the quest marker (i don’t know if that’s possible to do without spawning a separate monster), and have a penalty if you kill one of the mirrors (similarly to the way when you kill a Puppet Master clone).

I honestly believe that the sprite work is simply gorgeous and amazing, however, the Wyvern isn’t actually a wyvern, he looks now like a chinese dragon and i hope the sprite isn’t the final product, a wyvern looks like a dragon but the arms are also the wings, more or less, like this:


#96

This may have already been mentioned but you can stasis the dragon statues in the spawn preventing people from picking dragons.


#97

It’s definitely one of the trickier phases. My tactic was to rotate with the slowing shots while weaving between the high-damage ones, though even that isn’t perfect. Getting too close immediately results in eating a bunch of those shots, which, combined with the really short vulnerability, makes the phase both unfun and take longer.
I guess the latter is part of the former.


#98

I will be honest here. The difficulty level imo is just a little above magic woods. It’s just kinda like a long mwoods ~ as if the mwoods boss had a decent hp buff and attack damage. I enjoy the rework though. What I would want to change is the hp (if hp is what affects the amount of time there is per phase). If hp doesnt affect phase time, please make phases longer… it’s just more challenging. Those are my thoughts on LoD.


#99

That only work if the minions fire blue shots, since the sick prevents healing, red/regular are aimed at you so the damage taken is more consistent and the purple deal quite a bit base so im not too sure you can just stay behind the rocks


#100

Yep. This is why I vaulted my sullen blade. Hope it returns to its previous name too.
Also vaulting my tome of pain, for a future rework of that bad tome.
Never commiting the same mistake of foddering items like tablet (before the buff) again.


#101

its called the celestial blade rn
200-220 damage
5.2 range
no multi-hit
wavy shots


#102

Correction: the shots have an extremely low frequency, but decent amplitude.
It’s similar to the Spirit Dagger, as you can see here:
New%20Celestial%20Blade


#103

Oh my :heart:


#104

Beautiful :heart:


#105

Fair enough, i got one from feargus (as 2nd) and tried using it the rest of the dungeon
but it doesnt feel like its made for samurai (i just cant guarantee hitting stuff from 4 or more tiles away) and in that area its st seems better (granted your enemies are exposed)
On ninja it might work out pretty darn well, but i havent tried it yet


#106


Maybe you cant see it very well, but if youre lagging this phase gets quite a bit messed up (easier by a bit, but less predictable)
This phase is general is quite lethal (i died for this screen shot ;_; )


#107

An issue I may have found, or at least something that didn’t seem intentional to me:
when Feargus is fought third, with Limoz fought second, the inherited, opaque green, needle-like shots pierce through armor, for some reason.
Not sure if that’s intentional.


#108

Now I’m seeing why people are having issues with feargus’s orbiting shade phase, especially when feargus inherits blue shots. In the version I made, feargus’s secondary inherited shots would “turn off” after a few seconds, and then come back a few seconds later. for some reason kidd changed that before PT so that they’re active constantly. that was kind of important. those need to be tweaked if kidd is going to insist on having it that way.


#109

I’m gonna go ahead and writeup all my thoughts on the LOD rework here.

I ran the dungeon solo on all 15 classes at least once, trying my best to get a unique ordered run each time. I have not however run the dungeon in any form of larger group so all this feedback should be taken with that in mind.

I really enjoy this rework, I felt it managed to keep me engaged for all of the runs I did in quick succession which is not something many dungeons can do. A big part of this is the inheritance mechanic, especially since I was trying to get a unique run each time. Although in some cases the changes to the fight are small it does make each run different which keeps you from falling too much into a pattern. While some of the inheritances are certainly harder than others none of them ever felt completely unfair which is always a good sign.

For me the most dangerous orders with inheritances are as follows:
-Black, Green during the red fight. The combination of having the extra sick shots while having to dodge the directed pet stasis and minions made this very hard. I honestly think this phase is harder with just black and green and not doing blue after as the blue minions felt easier to me, but i will get to that later. Despite this being the hardest order for red in my opinion I’m not sure how it should be changed, this order is really hard just due to the prevalence of anti healing shots and not the individual fault of either of the inheritances.

-Green, Red, Black, Blue during ivory. I find green to be by far the most dangerous first pick when it comes to ivory, restricting your effective movement space a lot more than any of the other combos do. That in combination with the ivorys dangerous red shots while chasing makes this very hard but still doable. I was contemplating if the slow from blue made this more deadly but the blue orbs felt a lot easier to avoid than the black ones for me.

The easiest inheritance order to me was:
-Green, Black, Blue during Red. I already posted about this so im sure its being fixed but this order lets you be completely safe during minions phase. This is only really doable with blue minions as all other minions will be much more capable at shooting you behind the rock.

Its generally hard to judge an order as the easiest as none of them really make the fight easier than the base fight.

Individual inheritances that I thought could use some tuning regardless of order:
-X, Black, X during Red. I never found it to be any challenge at all to avoid the shots red shoots during the minion phase and I imagine in a group you may not even notice them. I’d recommend maybe having him shoot out 3 shots instead of just one so i cant just walk around the whole arena in a circle without effort as neither of the first or third inheritances for this make it much harder to avoid them.

-Black, X, X during Red. I honestly don’t think this one is that powerful however when compared to the other two first inheritances in the red fight it is by far the most deadly. I think the tornadoes should deal entirely negligible damage as their main punishment for being hit is pet stasis.

-X, X, Green during Black. I thought this one might be a little too much, the sick and pet stasis being prevalent during Blacks spinning minions phase and large minion phase is very punishing. Its still entirely doable, especially with range but i think the minions shots might warrant a small damage decrease with green.

-X, X, Blue during Red. The minions in this one just don’t seem capable of hitting me most of the time, I assume this is because their shot pattern is static instead of aimed but these made the fight seem easier to me than any other minion including the normal ones.

-Black/Red, X, X, X during Ivory. I find the most difficult parts of ivory to be his chase phases when there is not much room to move around, these two starters however give you plenty of room to maneuver during any part of the fight. I’m not sure I would recommend expanding the lava pool size however the miasma might benefit from being one tile further in.

-Final inheritance for ivory. I think the last soul is a little underutilized for this fight, it does make you somewhat weary but it only really does one thing the whole fight. I don’t think it should be too crazy but I would like if the statues had more than one shot pattern.

Non-inheritance tuning:
-Bosses need a few non-inherited armor piercing shots. I did two runthroughs with warrior on this dungeon one with and one without jugg. It should come as no surprise but I was able to absolutely steamroll the thing with jugg. Now I don’t believe the dungeon should be balanced around things like jugg specifically but a lot of things can be face tanked with a knight as well. As a result I feel there should be a few more shots that armor pierce regardless of inheritance because as of right now red inheritance is really the only thing that affects those classes.

-Green shield explosions don’t deal much to high def players. All it really does to a knight standing right on it is sicken them and deal ~70 damage which if feel is much less punishing than it should be. What I would recommend is making the shield explosions on green do moderate armor piercing damage as an extension of the above suggestion.

-Make ivory mirrors stun immune during his black copy phase. I like being able to stun the mirrors as a knight as it feels like i’m having an impact, however I find that stunning them on this phase is a little inconsistent as you cannot stun the black minions during his version of this phase.

-Blue’s pool teleportation phase. The shotgun in this phase is very damaging even if you get hit by just one shot. The main issue for this phase lies in close range classes, when its just blue without inheritance this phase isn’t that bad as sidestepping the shotgun is doable but any of the second inheritances can make it very hard to get close without taking hits due to extra bullets. I find this was mainly an issue for ninja as it lies in the close range but low def category. I recommend making blues aimed shotgun a little weaker for this phase.

Non Balance Issues:
I’ve reported these already but I feel I should list them again.

You can stasis the spawn dragon statues. Pretty self explanatory.

Cloaking at the right time during Feargus’ ram phase breaks his behavior. I was able to replicate this one but it took many attempts, i’m still not entirely sure what the timing for it is.

Final thoughts:
Although most of this post was me talking about things that I think should be changed I do believe this is one of the coolest reworks to date. The inheritance system makes this much more enjoyable and It no longer feels like a slog to solo. As I mentioned as the start all this feedback was from a solo perspective so it may need some extra thought put into it on the group side. Even if everything remained unchanged come prod I still believe it is pretty well balanced and entirely doable just with a few standout things. Running through on every class I can say for the most part its pretty balanced for everything, obviously some classes will have a much easier time (paladin) but I don’t believe it is too hard for any single class.


#110

Not sure if this was intentional or said already or a big deal, but @Kiddforce the dragons at spawn of the Lod are able to be stasised.


#111

Oversight on my part, will be fixed.