Let's talk about Oryx 2


#1

I’ve fought oryx 2 (X.31.0.0) a lot of times now and I thought i’d talk about some things about it. This is just my experience and opinion. My main arguments will be in bold.

Exploding Sun: The main gripe i have with this phase is how tight the opportunities to attack can be. With armor piercing shots, it puts every class in the same playing field in terms of defense. Starting off it seems logical that a ranged class can fight against this since you’ll be taking the same damage as a high defense class anyways but If you think you can take advantage of a ranged class, it won’t be so easy has fighting at a ranged position puts you in the way of the projectiles that come out after the suns explode. Fighting as a melee isn’t much better as even though you can avoid most projectiles spawned by the parent shot by being in towards the middle, it still splits itself in a trajectory that, combined with the rotation pattern, also aims inwards, making it a challenge to avoid since you must constantly keep your pace with the parent shots. This is disadvantageous to melee classes because if they were to retreat after taking inward moving child shots, they would have to come in paths with more of them when retreating, which will more than likely hit them for a few hundred damage unless they pace with the pattern perfectly. No matter which approach you take, you’ll be taking chunks of damage and won’t be on the offensive for long which can drag out for a bit. Overall, the pattern can be hard to adjust to which can be intimidating and leave only a few players attacking throughout the whole phase while the rest wait.

Missile Phase: A little easier than the exploding sun. The Bomb Artifacts are pretty dangerous which will be the main problem for the dance phase. Unlike the exploding sun phase, the bombs and daze shots are mismatched, meaning there will be intervals where they line up perfectly to allow an opening and times where there are no openings which might make players wait for when there is. From what i can tell, the Bombs seems to explode every .5 seconds, that coupled with their 180 damage AoE, can put most classes at high risk. This is even made more cheeky since the bombs move away from oryx, the same direction that a player would move if they were retreating, making it so a player can eat up a lot of damage by mistakenly matching pace with the Bomb Artifact. Overall, it wouldn’t be too bad of a phase if the Bomb Artifacts didn’t deal so much damage since its pattern already designed to catch the player as much as possible.

Dancing Phase: The most notorious phase. The main issue, like mentioned in the Missile Phase, are the Bomb Artifacts. They spin while exploding in a way that there is only a narrow path to get in and out without taking damage. If you try to enter or exit through the bombs, you might take a large chunk of damage as the fast fire rate, high damage and spinning pattern are designed to hit you multiple times. When it comes to being in the circle, it is much less punishing but still dangerous. If you are not a mundane knight, there is a lot of constant movement to be had as the silent bombs alternate pattern while oryx throws Red Bombs randomly, taking even a few shots of either will be heavy damage. I can imagine this phase is more to induce and punish panicking players as if you decide to go in, retreating will be risky and as you try to go out, going in and matching the pace of the silent bombs will be tough leading to a risky and panicked retreat which can be very intimidating. This could be circumvented if players chose to stay in from the get-go and learn the silent bomb/red bomb pattern but with the nature of learning and making mistakes coupled with this phase’s punishment of retreating, leads to intimidation and players choosing to opt out as soon as it starts. This basically makes it so that you are either in the fight or out of it. Overall, the problem are the Bomb Artifact’s damage output; if it were reduced, much more players would be more inclined to get in and get good at the phase as the issue of the Bombs are so prevalent that there will only be literally a couple of players in the circle fighting, dragging the phase to an undesirable amount of time.

Phase 4: The only complaint I have with this phase is how Oryx constantly sends out weakening shots which indirectly buffs his HP. This, the 60 second duration and his moderately high defense of 60, can drag out the fight even longer than it already has. (With a good knight this can be avoided though)

Overall: The fight isn’t impossible to learn or overly difficult and long if you have a good group but it does have a few mechanics that are annoying and drags it longer than it should. It is an “endgame boss” but it doesn’t mean it should force itself to last long. I’ve seen countless comments of things like “All of that for a Vit.”

Tell me what you guys think. It really helps me put things into better perspective.


#2

Screenshot_2020-02-02-08-03-27

It’s not particularly heavy damage, I can think of worse than slow moving 100 damage armor pierce.

This is overexaggerated a bit, you don’t need to be ‘perfect’ to walk back out away from Oryx. It’s more dangerous nearer to the center where most of the shots end up. If you’re taking a few hundred damage when backing out you’re not dodging probably.

For ranged players, not so much. You can stand outside the range of the sun explosions and still hit Oryx for the most part. For melees, yes it gets hard and you have to actually focus on dodging. It’s not impossible to do so though unless someone starts screwing you over by slowing Oryx mid fight.

Considerably easier in my opinion. For this reason:

Everyone for some reason avoids the daze shots like they would actually do any sort of harm to you. For most people this means they try rotate counter clockwise only to be surprised when they take 360+ damage from the bomb artifacts.

It’s actually fairly easy to just stand still for a moment, and when the bomb artifacts start rotating near you to just walk out a bit, rotate clockwise through the daze shots (there’s enough space that you can even sometimes not get hit) and just repeat. The shots don’t do much damage and the daze doesn’t last very long.

Agreed on the bomb artifacts having too much damage since they’re kinda busted

People still rotate through them though lol

Dance phase is probably the best/my favourite phase, although this brings it down considerably. I feel there could be a better way to do… whatever Deca wanted when they added a spinning ring of death around Oryx. It’s way too punishing for what it is, only way out and in is with a single spot where there is no bomb artifact, this spot being incredibly fast and hard to catch up to and if you’re a slow character you might as well just wait on everyone else since you can’t do shit if you didn’t start near Oryx in the first place. If you wanted to keep people near him, you should do that instead of “well, there’s sort of a way to exit and enter the dance phase area but if you miss once you’re probably dead if you weren’t at max health.”

chase phase? Even though your next comments lead me to believe you mean the final phase

just dodge smh

Okay but for real I think the duration should be lowered to whenever Oryx sends out his next ring of weak shots at the very least, a full minute of weak can be pretty punishing and annoying for any player, especially ranged


#3

I’m not sure if I’ve seen even a single O2 fight that took more than 2 minutes in the last few months. If you see that the group is too weak you can just leave after O1.

I agree that the eyes in the dance phase don’t have to do 200 damage (maybe the could do only 100+stunned+quiet?) and that the 60 sec weak/quiet is out of proportion, but besides from that the fight is pretty fine.


#4

Well that’s embarrassing.

I guess I should say it can accumulate very quickly because of the pattern.

I disagree. Not saying walking away from oryx is hard, but walking out without taking few shots is. The parent shots are to your left and right (if you match pace), with the child splitting behind if you, meaning there will be more projectiles behind you that you have to avoid when backing out. I’m not exactly saying this is a detriment to the fight either, but there are a lot of projectiles going around. Maybe i’ll change my wording.

I agree for the daze shots, but most people will have their attention on the bombs which i still think does a bit too much damage.

^

Agreed

No not the chasing phase. In the wiki the chase phase is part of phase 2 along with his other randomly chosen phases. Phase 4 is the final phase which makes my mistake with the parent and child shot damage even more embarrassing since i checked that but not the damage info.

I actually do keep in mind to dodge it, but when i make a mistake and get hit, its exactly as you say.

Even so, you still have to keep in mind of the child shots and from my experience, can keep you from a constant offensive.

I just want to say that i don’t think the boss fight is terrible. There are just some annoying elements in it. And thank you for taking the time to comment because the way the quotes are formatted took time for me edit to respond. I can only guess its the same to you.


#5

Usually takes around 10 minutes for me. A short fight comes every so often but not all the time which i can probably thank the mechanic of O2 randomly choosing phases. I’m not saying the fight is terrible, it just has some annoying elements.


#6

I’m personally okay with O2. The fight requires players to be extremely careful, and since the phases differ from each one by a lot, memorizing the transitions is key if you want to know when to hit and when to hide.


#7

For the most part. But the dancing phase seems to discourage players from learning its pattern with its Bomb Artifacts being too punishing imo.


#8

I would agree that the bomb artifacts in the dancing phase could use a damage nerf.

The bomb artifacts serve the purpose of making it difficult to get in, and making it difficult to get out, forcing people to “dance”, which I don’t think is a bad concept at all.

The issue comes with the difficulty of getting out.
If you’ve brought yourself to the point where you’re flashing red and need to get out and then get caught by the bomb artifacts due to failing to get out through the hole and die, I think that’s fair. The player should recognize that their dodging skills were not up to par earlier and get out while they still can, incurring heavy damage if they fail to get out through the hole. They could still exit by nexusing.
However, with how the damage is currently, you can have a decent chunk of HP left and still risk dying if you miss the exit, which is a bit of a problem given the bombs o2 throw also incur big damage as well and can put you in the danger zone even if you were fine on HP before.
It’s really tricky to focus on both at once, and I mean increased difficulty in such a way isn’t inherently bad. However, given the “nexus margin” is a lot higher, and people really don’t want to nexus after having gone through finding/clearing a cleared Realm, went through Oryx’s Castle, went through O1, then went through the WC, it encourages people to just sit and leech because if they go in, they might have to nexus, but if they leech they can still get the loot.

Nerfing the damage of the bomb artifacts would hopefully make the “nexus margin” smaller, so the phase more accurately punishes people for misjudging their situation (could have gotten out earlier, didn’t, now you gotta nexus) rather than punishing people who want to try but their dodging skills aren’t up to par (wanted to help the group, but your dodging skill wasn’t quite there, well looks like you should nexus because good luck getting out lol). The actual difficulty of the dance itself wouldn’t change because the shots and bombs o2 throws that you’d have to dodge wouldn’t change in damage, but I think just nerfing bomb artifact damage would encourage more people to get into the ring rather than sit outside.

I’m kind of bad at dance though and often have to back out because I run out of HP pots, so there’s your disclaimer


#9

To give some visual aid with this one, here’s the execution:

https://gfycat.com/meagerhealthyiriomotecat

For fun, try to count how many people in the dungeon actually figured out to go clockwise in this instance

It’s

Answer

ZERO, maybe one half if you count the priest standing in the same spot and oscillating left/right while healing.


#10

Yeah. I don’t think its a bad concept either. Its pretty much the big brother of the dance face of O1, but those bomb artifacts are just a bit too much.


#11

For dance, the artifacts should circle much farther away from the boss, and the range of the gray stars should be changed accordingly. That way people won’t just sit outside the radius because Dance 3 is awful, especially since once you’re outside the radius it’s really difficult to get back in.


#12

I have been in a case where O2 will just pop out the phase and many players, i included, are outside of the range because it was so abrupt and we were still at a distance from dealing with previous phases.


#13

My only gripes with the entire fight are as follows: Red Eye thingies explode too quickly. Even rocking a solid 62 SPD and tryna weave between shots in the Daze Phase, they can nip you twice quite easily, and fucking trust me, that additional hit can throw your whole mojo off. They need to explode every like, 0.75 seconds instead (seriously, just a small additional fraction of a second like that is all I’d need to make it more fair). For the Dancing phase, which I fucking love BTW (the feeling you get when in the circle and all focus is on your character and the grenades is really tense but rewarding), the ring of death should probably also deal reduced damage, or like the Daze Phase, just explode less constantly. Those eyes are really fucking cancerous with how often they pulse.

Sun Phase has some sort of sweet spot around 3-4 tiles away, with you weaving closer and further, and honestly I, to this day, have not perfected it, and you have to leave the fight to recuperate before running in again, so I think it’s relatively fucking tough, but it’s somewhat fair. Sure the suns themselves hurt like fuck, but they’re easily telegraphed, it’s just that you can get easily overwhelmed and panicked, something which again, is an example of good game design, where your cool means survival or death, and not just the cheesiness of the design itself.

My least favourite phase is actually the Chase Phase; I have literally never seen anybody survive the whole thing being targetted by Oryx, unless the group is fucking massive (during an event where someone has an Ogmur and Oryx just gets shredded), there’s a decoy/trickster, or you run into the hallway and get Oryx off your ass. But I am sure that there is some method to surviving whilst still staying in the room. IMO, it just feels a bit unfair because of how fast the shots move in comparison to the default speed of a character, and not only that, the damage of the shots (like ~250?) is fucking huge considering he fires off shotguns of these shits. It’s just a bit cheesey, and I wish it focused more on fucking over the whole group (since it only really screws you over if you walk behind Oryx, walking to the side of him makes this just a matter of keeping your distance), instead of just one poor sucker whose chance of nexusing shoots up to like 99%. It should really keep the whole group threatened if they are anywhere near Oryx, not just behind him (where the grenades and additional shots mainly go to), and keep a little bit of stress off of the guy being gunned down by Oryx himself.

Overall though, the fight’s really fun and intense. If only the arena was much smaller and/or closed off…


#14

so we arent gonna talk about chase phase?
anyways the universal solution here is get good 4head
learning the patterns isn’t that hard and the entire fight is actually pretty easy if you have fingers.


#15

this is probably because oryx can be paralyzed and slowed in this phase for some ghastly reason. yes, a sweet spot does exist that you’re supposed to get into, however every time oryx gets slowed or paralyzed his small circling movement is disrupted which makes the entire pattern a lot more erratic. and of course, in a massive group full of people who can’t think about what they’re doing (see: everyone rotating the wrong way on daze stars after an entire year) they’re obviously going to slam him with every status they can regardless of context, and they’re going to do it erratically and ineffectively.


#16

Nothing much to talk about. Straight forward and pretty easy unless there aren’t any healers then its a little bit challenging at worst. Of course this is assuming you have a sizable group.


#17

I’ve actually never had a problem or strong opinion with the chase phase (which is why i didn’t include it) and thought it was pretty straight forward. The way i see it, it was designed for players to pass over the torch constantly when it came to being chased so no one person is ever the only target. Like hot tomato. But i get what you mean, if you are the only one being chased, there’s not much you can do.


#18

They did allow a tactic for that, if you aren’t wanting to risk a long solo chase:

Lead the chasing back to the central corridor (which of course you will have already cleared in an earlier phase, if worried about solo chase possibility) and Oryx will rebound back away from you halfway down the corridor, making chase soloable at your leisure, every time, doing this method.


#19

Oh , chase actually has an interesting level of depth to it!

I didn’t really figure that phase out in a consistent, reproducible way until recently, when I sort of had to force myself to during the first rifts seasons, being a Warrior nut and all.

The “Key insight” behind being able to manipulate the phase into something you can work with, comes with realizing that Oryx’s main shotgun uses the Forward type Shoot Behavior, meaning that the direction of his aim is not determined by the player position, but by his direction of movement.

Looking at his movement, notice how he uses Follow to get close to players (and hence appears to aim at players), but then when he gets extremely close (~1 tile) observe how he switches to a different kind of movement: Swirl, moves in a tight circle with the current position as starting point. (This also exposes the Forward shot type pretty well)

Because the forward type shot is affected by movement, and you have just forced Oryx to change his movement, you have forced different gaps to appear in the shot pattern. These gaps give some choices for changing the direction you retreat in, permitting you to either use some new direction for a while or force another direction change after letting the “changed” attack pass you.

The pitfall in this phase is that it is tempting to retreat from Oryx in a linear matter, causing him to keep his same attack direction, and boxing you in from only moving across this straight line you started to move in.

This invites you to keep to the line (or take damage) until you hit a wall of the arena and can’t keep to the line anymore, leaving only damage as an option.

While in reality, you still have the line to work with, and the correct answer was to walk in the opposite direction, right up into Oryx’s face. He will always flinch before you do, and that gives you room to dodge his attacks.

The subtle mind games they embedded into this phase by this pattern is pretty impressive, and I can only guess it’s not been widely figured out because in the rest of the game, walking away in a straight line from a charging enemy pretty much always works in isolation (i.e. no other enemies to intervene), setting a false pretense that it should work for Oryx also. This would make doing the opposite extra counter-intuitive.

If you’d like to visualize my ramblings, here’s a 1 minute demonstration of dealing with the chase phase as described: https://gfycat.com/UnrulyHauntingCaribou

Apart from the start where I have to correct for an unexpected barrel, this was pretty much snore mode!

I’ve also purposely waited a little longer than what would be wise to work towards changing directions, to try and show the limit on how much direction change you can force in a short moment (easily 90 degrees, i.e. when you are cornered)

Notice how, in order to switch to his circle behavior, Oryx often has to correct himself by going backwards a little bit! With some good timing, you can force his shots to be while he does this, causing him to fire away from you, giving you completely liberty on where to move next!

I hope this tidbit of info helps you if you ever find yourself getting chased! To get Oryx to unstick from your character, try to force a direction change towards the center of the arena, so that someone else is likely to pick him up. Otherwise, the opportunity is all yours to secure that top-damage callout everytime oryx initiates chase phase :sunglasses:


#20

That’s awesome!