Lost Halls isn't a great dungeon...


#1

Okay so not really a very long post but…

TL;DR - LH is never completed publicly, this annoys me.

Does anyone else feel that the Lost Halls really isn’t a very good dungeon? Since it’s release I have only ever been in a public lost halls that has been finished once. Everyone always bails before the first few rooms are even cleared. I just feel this is content you can only do if you are willing to spend money on keys and have a guild to do that.

Now before people come swinging right in and say things like “well just join a guild that’ll do LH” etc. and telling me to stop “crying” (this is the Internet after all), I feel content shouldn’t be practically only possible if you spend money. I mean EUW might just be a dead server for public LHs or something but this is just my experience anyway.


#2

I’ve done multiple lost halls and I’ve not spent any money, nor am I a great player. Just join the pub halls discord and you can join runs that go relatively well.


#3

The way how I see it is that the Lost Halls was designed with the idea that only organized groups could complete the dungeon, like a real raid style dungeon. People really wanted more end-game content and forcing players to do more coordination is really the only way forward for RotMG’s end game content, it is an MMO after all.

You can get an organized group thogether and look for a lost sentry, but the game doesn’t really support that with the lackluster social/organization features the game has. You only have guilds, which aren’t good for making a quick temporary party, and the friends list, which is useless. So the only way to get random players to group up is with 3rd party software i.e Discord. And Lost Halls Discords prefer keys over realm lost halls because its much more convinient.

If the game had more social features like a party system or making guilds more usefull it would somewhat fix the problem while not making a large part of the community angry.


#4

The gripe that I personally have with Lost Halls is how MBC is basically never done publicly, let alone Void, essentially barricading off half the dungeon for most people that don’t want to join massive crowds or fit requirements for other Discords.


#5

Meh pubhalls barely has reqs, and yeah true no one does voids or mbcs publicly but thats the design lul, I’ve done cults unmaxed with 2 people before all you need is communication which there isnt in pub dungeons sooo. There’s also no point in doing a 40 min dungeon publicly that you can do in 10 min with a halls disc :stuck_out_tongue:


#6

I feel like the phases after the last Marble Core phase are unnecessary, to be honest.

But yeah, Cultist is considering way easier than the Colossus, i mean, compare both battles, especially on their distribution of projectiles on the bullet hell aspect, and tell me which one is easier.

I guess that’s a valid reason for why Malus can’t drop T14 Armors.


#7

You have to be pro player to do lhs


#8

Even then, the dungeon discourages cooperative play because people add the to hp scale. for example, say you are in a pub LH with 6 3/8s or lower, why would you attempt to keep them alive when their stats aren’t good and they add to the hp scale? it is objectively easier to simply wait for everyone to die out or nexus and then solo the rest of the dungeon.


#9

Why? Because the dungeon is hard. And that’s what it was meant to be. The whole idea of the dungeon was a new endgame, an endgame in which players either 1) need to be coordinated or 2) need to be skilled. A big horde of players can DPS/heal their way through a halls OR a small group of high DPS players (even a ballsy solo player) can dodge and weave their way through.

There are numerous discords that host halls runs often (pub halls, MCH, SBC kinda). Pub halls has relatively low requirements, which makes it accessible to most of the playerbase. I’ve never spent a penny on realm yet I’ve been able to run halls.

TL;DR: A hard dungeon is not a bad dungeon.


#10

What NDI says is absolutely correct.

Halls is a pay 2 win dungeon. There’s pretty much no argument. Someone had to buy the key for pub halls. Even if you didn’t pay, someone paid so you could ‘win’.

I talked about this before. Halls 2.0 was a complete failure. It changed absolutely nothing about how people complete lost halls.

It’s still just a big meatball of players dealing damage and steamrolling with overwhelming numbers.

It’s still just a big meatball of players spamming heals during marble colossus. Seriously, screw marble colossus I can’t see anything when there are ~80 people and I just pray priests will save us during tentacles.

Void is a little different, but it’s much easier when you have a priest on your quadrant spamming puri.

Actually Halls is a ‘bad’ dungeon. I’ve been doing a lot of pub halls recently. Halls/void combo is a net loss. It just is. People kept telling me otherwise but they are simply lying.

As a key popper, Halls is a bad dungeon. 200 gold for 2 life is a joke. The whites aren’t that common and in the ~30 lost halls I completed all I got was one wyrm armor. You can do a lot better with 6000 gold.
Of course other dungeons are also expensive but just like NDI said doing a colossus/void from a sentry almost never happens.

As a player Halls is also a bad dungeon. You die and lose far more whites than you gain. This includes the fact that backpacks and dyes cost gold (unless an event blesses you with them). Take a look at Cwinner. He’s a good halls leader and an extremely competent knight.

Look how many times he has died during March.

|2019-03-15 04:23||Trickster|20|420|926|457 355||4/8|LH Marble Colossus|
|2019-03-15 01:25||Warrior|20|1 279|2 734|2 164 846||7/8|LH Golem of Anger|
|2019-03-15 01:15||Knight|20|3 122|6 075|5 851 873||6/8|LH Void Entity|
|2019-03-11 16:17||Paladin|20|1 465|3 188|2 538 400||8/8|LH Void Entity|
|2019-03-05 22:53||Knight|20|3 537|7 948|6 681 068||8/8|LH Golem of Sorrow|
|2019-03-05 13:52||Paladin|20|184|459|84 225||4/8|LH Crusade Soldier|
|2019-03-04 04:05||Priest|20|520|1 149|648 178||8/8|LH Crusade Shipwright|
|2019-03-04 01:59||Sorcerer|20|1 770|4 307|3 147 553||8/8|LH Crusade Shipwright|
|2019-03-02 16:10||Warrior|20|5 218|12 901|10 043 450||8/8|LH Oryx Armorbearer|

Halls has a piss poor reward to risk ratio. In a game that’s about survival, there’s really very little reason to do halls other than for personal enjoyment.

The Lost Sentry should drop halls keys.


#11

Gotta love how, even with OP saying this in advance, people still managed to completely miss the point and respond with “just join some discord lol”.


#12

The Lost Sentry should drop halls keys

That’s actually a pretty decent idea, unfortunately it’s costly for the devs so it’s not happening.

Halls has a piss poor reward to risk ratio. In a game that’s about survival, there’s really very little reason to do halls other than for personal enjoyment.

Unfortunately you’re either relatively new to the dungeon, play too nervously, very very unlucky, or are just bad. Halls generally over-rewards players for completing it. Most players win far more white/halls exclusive loot than they lose. Using only Cwinner’s stats is ineffective; not intentionally bragging but I could give you my stats, where the only halls-exclusive loot I’ve lost in the actual halls 2.0 is a single dominion armor and one mseal, whereas I’ve gained a huge amount of halls-exclusive loot from the dungeon. Cwinner as you’ve mentioned (I’m not in pub so I can’t confirm) is an organizer, meaning that he will die naturally more than a regular player due to having to lead at the same time as well as dealing with burnout with large numbers of halls completions.

For the popper, yes - halls is a poor dungeon. I think that we can usually agree on all keys being a really poor investment for the popper. Then again, the only good deals for gold are slots, vaults, and pet yard upgrades.

tldr; get lucky 5head


#13

I agree with this entirely.

This is the easier way to do halls; in LH 2.0 HP scaling has made it possible to clear the halls in smaller groups.

If you’re worried about lag during tentacle phase, you can move to a separate space to the left or the right of the group. It takes skill to dodge all of the shots but you won’t lag out (if that’s an issue).

That’s really unfortunate, but I think lots of people have had LOTS more success with new tops/whites. A cherry-picked example is insufficient to make a claim.

That’s quite contradictory to

Two problems here:

  1. Cwinner is a raid leader. Compared to you or me he runs a LOT of halls, thus correlating to the increased amount of LH-related deaths. Also recognize raid leaders need to peek ahead to call spawns, which can get them into a sticky situation.
  2. Again, a cherry-picked example of one such raid leader dying a lot in lost halls.

TL;DR: Having to pay for LH keys is annoying. However, the amount players grind halls speaks for itself: halls are worth it enough for others to continue to grind them.


#14

Rotmg just turned in LH…

LH is just a way for Deca to get money for fame, tops that aren’t even anything special compared to old tops and white bags that are too rare to justified the money, time and insta pops in LH.

The lack of new players and people not doing other stuff that isn’t LH is just killing this game.


#15

I see what you’re saying about halls but it’s not just losing specific loot that is bad. Yesterday I died on my halls throwaway trickster (I’m avoiding skip runs in the future they’re just bs). That sets me back ~20 hours and I need to make a new one.

During that trickster’s life I earned 1 wyrm and lots of life pots. I have limited vault space and I can’t store tons of life so I just end up giving them to guildies.

If I go to US West I can’t even buy a ubhp anymore with 8 life. Life has lost a lot of its value.

This means that the only thing that halls can offer is really the high tier armors weapons and whites. For me 20 hours of playtime for 1 extra def armor was really not worth it.

I mentioned this other times but a bunch of people I know just burned out from making throwaways over and over again.


#16

The lack of new players is definitely an issue, obviously. for the other stuff besides lost halls I’ve actually counted how many dungeons are in the game currently. Here’s just a breakdown of the categories

Starter Dungeons

  • Tutorial/Oryx’s Kitchen (technically)
  • Pirate Cave
  • Forest Maze
    Total : 3
    (like seriously wtf)

Midlands Dungeons

  • Spider Den
  • Forbidden Jungle
  • The Hive
  • Magic Woods (I guess)
  • CandyLand Hunting Grounds
    Total: 5

Highlands Dungeons

  • Snake Pit
  • Manor of The Immortals
  • Parasite Chambers
  • Spider Den
    total: 4

Mountain Dungeons

  • Magic Woods
  • Snake Pit
  • Sprite World
  • Cave of A Thousand Treasures
  • Haunted Cemetery
  • Undead Lair
  • Abyss of Demons
  • Puppet Master’s Theatre
  • Toxic Sewers
  • Mad Lab
  • Crawling Depths
  • Woodland Labyrinth
  • Dead Water Docks
    Total: 13

Event Boss Dungeons

  • Beachzone
  • Davy Jone’s Locker
  • Mountain Temple
  • Lair of Draconis
  • Ocean Trench
  • Ice Cave
  • Tomb of the Ancients
  • The Nest
  • The Shatters
  • Lost Halls
  • Cultist Hide Out (I guess)
    Total: 11

Oryx’s Castle

  • Oryx’s Castle (including chambers)
  • Wine Cellar
  • Lair of Shaitan
  • Puppet Master’s Encore
  • Cnidarian Reef
  • Secluded Thicket
    (Court of oryx doesn’t count)
    Total: 6

Total number of dungeons (Not counting special events and repeats): 37

Total number of dungeons (with special events): 44

(Unless I counted them wrong >.<)


#17

Agreed, I already showed interest in making more changes to the dungeon so that this could happen in the future in this thread.

I currently am busy on the LoD Rework but once that’s taken care of I will take a closer look on how to fix this issue with LH once and for all.

I’ll ask again, what are simple changes you would like to see in the dungeon?

What would get you to run the dungeon from a Lost Sentry?

I already have a list of changes I want to make but more feedback and suggestion is always useful, if people think the dungeon was specifically designed to be done in large groups then I can say that’s really wrong, the original target was a group of guild members (12-20 people) while still having the possibility to complete it with less. Coordination is key but the elements that needs it are far from the need of a raid like structure or a giant mob, I firmly believe that the dungeon could be run publicly in its current state if people learned to trust each other and run it without full control of their group but I will concede there’s no reason to do so in a game where death can be so punishing. The safer option will always be more popular than the fun one but I’m curious on how much people would be willing to go for safety over reward or time saved for example. Nonetheless I look forward to more feedback on halls and will do my best to change the dungeon for the better.

This is a terrible idea, keys have already ruined the core gameplay loop of the game by allowing people to omit the realm from the gameplay loop leading to a very broken system where drops are balanced around either keys or the realm which becomes unrewarding or too rewarding depending on the case. It also leads to burnout since there’s no bridge between the grind and because people spend less time in the realm and more money on keys putting resources in the realm is harder to justify seeing as it currently stands you can completely bypass it for the majority of content in the game alongside the fact it generates $0 in direct revenue.
And yes I do know you would need to obtain the keys from the realm but nonetheless I don’t think encouraging a playstyle where you allow others to avoid the realm entirely is a good idea.

Once again, I’m not gonna make any promises in terms of changes but I want to be clear that I’m listening and your complaints don’t fall on deaf ears.


#18

I think lowering the amount of adds marble spawns would be good, and removing 1 of the marble rocks from a later phase. My reasoning behind this is that the marble adds become merciless around phase 10 and phase 15, either forcing you to nexus or die.

As for the dungeon itself I would propose maybe nerfing the speed of the crusader captain, right now he is way too fast and can easily wipe a small group if they happen to spawn 2 rooms away from the crusader group.

That’s about it from me, and I do hope these aren’t too complicated to change, because I know from experience how tedious removing/changing existing stuff can be on a coding level.

That depends on the droprate of the keys, say if the keys had the same (or slightly increased) droprate of a WC inc, then I would say it would probably be fine. Unless they are uncommon/guaranteed then no, that would collapse what use the realms have left.


#19

Did you not see what happened with Shatters?

Or did you think this was going to be different, and if so, why?


#20

yeah… those were fun, especially when one person rushes mid at the start and kills everyone

FUN