Lost Halls, Why It's Bad for the Game, and Possible Solutions


#21

not really all you say is like 20+ l for deca and say 8 for deca first and then do the rest
if you have the the greater pots then they are more likely to trust u


#22

I don’t really think making halls easier is the play to make…

The first thing I’d try to think of is, why are halls (as well as nest/shats) so difficult to actually run public in the realm? If I had to take a guess, it’d be primarily due to the non-boss section of the dungeon.

Halls has both the Spectral Sentry as well as an early Crusade that can easily wipe an unprepared group in moments. The remaining spawns (Golem, Oryx, Slime) have both RNG dependent patterns that can easily push people out of rooms. Not to mention, the Slime room can easily overspawn, making it a necessity to focus DPS on it in order to progress safely.

A single soldier bee in the Nest can charge into the spawnroom from the moment you break the first wall. It’s also very tanky, so it’ll stay in spawn for a good enough time to spook anyone into continuing.

Shatters… shouldn’t even need to be mentioned, but is easily the most ruinable of the three- where a single misstep can cause enemies to spawn more enemies, heavily increasing the necessary DPS while also making the bullet spreads incredibly dangerous.

I’m surprised that Fungal Cavern largely doesn’t have this issue- I’ve seen many in-realm fungals attempted past the first room, and while most don’t succeed, you have the benefit of players actually trying to stay instead of nexusing past the first room.

There are two traits of the Fungal Cavern that none of the other “Mighty” dungeons have, that I’d like to theorize and propose here:

1.) A very large spawn room: This is a critical consideration because Halls/Shats/Nest runs will most likely fail within the first few rooms, where there is very little space to dodge/kite any intruders. The spawn room in Fungal is large enough to contain any drag and then some more, giving players an easier time to get into the dungeon and start fighting.

2.) Enemies that don’t create positional walls: Most Fungal enemies chase you around and don’t leave trails of bullets. While there are some stationary large Mushrooms, the rooms are large enough that they usually don’t act as a choke point to dodging more mobile mobs. Halls has the Oryx/Golem/Slime rooms, which while mostly acting as a deterrent to rushers, also effectively seal off rooms from unprepared groups, making their available space smaller from the getgo. Nests have so little space that just about any enemies (Soldier Bees, Suicide Larvae, Spawners) act as effective zones of denial, especially with their ridiculous status-effect filled radial bursts. Often, what’ll happen in a Nest is that a Soldier bee aggros up to the first breakable wall, and hugs it in a way that makes it incredibly inconvenient to hit. Shatters, once again, is the worst in this comparison, as Adepts spawn portals, Mages spawn Ice Spheres/slow fireball spreads that act as walls, and towers can overspawn to create walls of very tanky enemies. With the incredibly minimal space Shatters starts you off with, you MUST kill them from the getgo or they will get out of control.

In other words, let the players feel safe at spawn. You could even make spawns a safezone where it’d be extremely difficult (or downright impossible) for enemies to make their way in. Trust me, the amount of time it’d take to cheese any Mighty dungeon with this strat is enough to keep it away from the mainstream.

This is also a recurring trend of dungeons not being able to manage space in an interesting way. Crusades and Soldier Bees were clearly designed to be kited along a (supposedly) large distance, but near spawn is not a place where players have that distance. At the same time, there are very few interesting mechanics that can be put to play when an enemy can be kited for an absurd, if not infinite, amount of time. It’s the same reason why every Mighty dungeon locks players into the boss room- if they could be kited with the massive space in the dungeon, they would be pathetically cheesable.

DECA needs to add systems in place to their dungeon design to control the amount of space that players have to fight specific encounters in dungeons. Boss-room type locking is costly, both in space and time, and the other alternative of keeping everything open has lead to almost every non-boss section of a dungeon feeling stale, unchallenging, and also unrewarding. Essentially, unnecessary.


#23

I am really reading this thread while waiting for a void run, and i’m guilty.


#24

Remove pets in lh and make it tired item lock, while making it a super long dungeon for no reason.


#26

I’m actually gonna disagree with you here, duo nests is the most profitable pot-wise now, with 2 guaranteed life and a gdex per player, with it taking ~10 minutes. Aside from that, you’re pretty much spot on. I’d also like to note that players like me, who DID no-life LH, are probably more likely to quit or take extended breaks from the game, even if we became absurdly rich with loot. (see: WB thread)


#27

Totally agree LH has everything and that shouldnt be a thing (pots/OP UT´s/fame) and pots is just to hard unbalanced like literally 50% of the group gets either 2m 2l or 1l1m and that is way to much.


#28

Change loot table (especially pot drops (ESPECIALLY life mana)) and maybe you can save the economy a bit. Less, much less fame would be nice too


#29

I don’t like how LH is effectively its own community/game, with all the hoops you have to go through to participate in what should be “just another part of the game”.

It’s inevitable outcome when there’s only LH that you can run to get LH loot (which has 3x bosses that drop the best loot in the game) that it is such a pull for players, but that does harm the rest of the game in the same way that chest events do, when players ignore the realms, and sit only in nexus/bazaar waiting for a key open.

So I would say it needs to be decided, is LH “just another dungeon” in which case: make it even tougher to rush (or add teleporting), and reduce the guaranteed loot for everyone to be only guaranteed for x players. Nerf the XP (well, bring it in line with similar content), nerf/remove the HP scaling on minions. Replace the vial key-mechanic with guarantee Void after MBC (and Cultist?), or make vial tradeable.

Or is it “the Rotmg endgame pinnacle” in which case, removal of LH keys should be considered. WC was never available via direct key when that was the endgame content, and the game was better for it, IMO, instead of having a significant part of the playerbase in their own LH bubble. Even if keys are retained, could place something after O2, similar to the Craig/Court room, to be accessible after O2 dies, so that LH clearly forms an extension of the heroes/close realm/castle/Oryx/O2/repeat.

When LHers sell Life 4:1 or 5:1 for Dex, there’s only really one dungeon you should be running, if wanting pure pot profitability:

SW Trix

Can easily get 15+ Dexes in the ~10 minutes you mention for 1x Nest, trade in them pots for 3-4 Life. And Def chances on top of that. :wink:


#30

guys remember lost halls is not the problem when deca makes any high difficulty high reward dungeon after a 2 weeks when grinders get the hang of the dungeon it basically becomes a loot farm so you cant really blame deca. when lh first came out it was difficult as hell but now its just steam rolled.


#31

if lost halls got removed people would just grind fungal caverns as those have high life drop rate too.


#32

This is right. Though the only real solution would be to just make dungeons/enemies as cancerous as possible. Everything quiets, armor pierces, silences, pet stasis, you name it.


#33

Lost halls is bad for the game for reason though it’s in agood Place as it seems it was meant to be the way it was requiring coordination


#34

(Sorry, I haven’t been interacting with this thread recently as much as I would have liked; life has been a thing.)

I do certainly agree with @Nevov’s points on how LH is sort of separated from the rest of the game and should be treated differently from other dungeons (possible removing keys to do so). I also think that @Stellalumi did an awesome job of analyzing some of the main drawbacks of multiple endgame dungeons and how these can impact an unprepared group (which encompasses most non-discord runs).

I would like to quick clarify that I don’t necessarily think that removing high fame and guaranteed stat pot drops from Halls while leaving equipment drop rates at the spot where they are now is optimal; I might suggest that equipment drop rates be boosted to partially compensate for nerfs in other areas, perhaps having LH tops drop from bosses at a rate similar to WC tops from Oryx. My point here is to give LH something in particular that LH has that is good for players to run, but to simultaneously ensure that if they can’t fulfill all of their needs (equipment, pots and fame) from one source. Players must have a variety of experiences in the game in order to enjoy it, and avoid burnout like @CandyShi brought up.

But with that, I think it is important that we discuss the issue of keys, as has been brought up in this thread. Obviously the ability to open any dungeon anywhere gives players a lot of power in the game, and results in discords which can quickly and efficiently have multiple runs with only the players they deem desirable (crashers are an exception, ofc). So with that, why shouldn’t DECA remove keys? Well, at ~$2 per key (give or take), DECA can make a decent sum of money off of regular LH runs, and also seems to make quite a bit off of weekend events. Regardless of how it effects the game, DECA needs money, and key sales are an important part. So what solution can be found that simultaneously addresses the need for non-spammed dungeons (for the health of the game) and the need for DECA to make money so they can afford to have more than one couch for five employees?


#35

I made a similar post but it was not mainly about LHs.

I do agree that halls have some damage to the economy.


#36

the hacker neutral stance is pretty rotten sure, but it gets even worse. i reported someone who is a literal account scammer/thief to the mods there and their team literally said “if it did not happen in the discord, we do not care”.

really? you’re going to let literal thiefs roam the server and grind dungeons for endgame loot with impunity? they should be cast out and black listed.


#37

and to clarify, the account thief is in the lost halls discord and is ACTIVE. i see them in raid channels pretty often. again, with impunity.


#39

What is an account theif. Just change password smh


#41

what? if someone obtains access to your e-mail and therefore your account, you are more than likely gonna be screwed


#42

ever heard of security questions. plus its not even their problem


#43

If you have 17000 members, the wellbeing of the game is as much their problems as Decas