I just wanna start by saying that every stat exaltation is useful except for Mana and Life.
+5 Att/Dex is almost the same as a crown, which is very good.
+5 Def is very nice. A very decent boost, plus Trigger Damage.
+5 Speed is not that noticeable but its always nice to have for better mobility.
+5 Vit/Wis help with their respective modifiers.
but then there’s +25 HP/MP. On top of having to complete the highest difficulty dungeons 75 times, you get a measly 25 max HP/MP boost… I get that what they went for is the same value as a pot for each tier (since mana and life give 5 rather than 1) but 25 is nothing.
To compare, T2 rings of any stat but MP/HP are +5 (same as maxed exaltation) while T2 HP/MP rings are +80… maxed HP/MP exaltations dont even get to half of that value…
It would be nice if they bumped up each tier to +10 rather than +5 so you would get +50 at the end. It would at least serve some purpose.
It is rare to see gear that offers +25 or less MP/HP (other than legacy/old ST stuff (not talking about early game stuff)) because it’s just so small that it will very rarely be useful.
I think that the HP/MP rings should be nerfed to be more in line with exaltations rather than the other way around In the end, any increase in HP can be valuable because it is only that final point that matters. That is the reason people want to wear Deca rings over UBHP, even though it is a measly 10 hp difference. On the most important of your characters, you still want that additional 10 hp because on the off chance that you nexus with 7, that is your character’s life you saved right there!
I think +25 hp is a good balance where people don’t feel like they are missing out too much if they are not at the level where they can achieve that exaltation (me), but enough that people that do achieve it are happy to have the boost. I think that is true across all the exaltations, honestly. I am glad the DECA team found a good balance there.
As Backpedal stated above, the numbers are fine the way they are. A permanent bonus of 25 hp/mp is a very significant buff. The main stat bonuses still come from equipment of course.
Exaltation should not be buffed any further. This could lead to a pets 2.0 in the long run, a power creep that ruins the game.
Also as Backpedal stated, it isn’t designed to make players OP, it is a small stat increase for doing a very long grind of dungeons, to give bored end-game players something else to seek (although I’d argue exaltation in itself is extremely boring and most players will complain about it in time for whatever their reasons may be).
Anyhow it’s decently balanced as is, if anything, the bonuses are too strong.
And I didn’t even get to this part, but when you put it in writing, +50 permanent HP on a class sounds so incredibly over-powered… I really think +25 is the highest they could go without it becoming obviously OP.
I see discussing of hp - I wanted to point this out regardless of how relevant it may be, but a friend of mine had a realization, the only reason hp rings are so meta, is because that’s the only spot where you can actually get hp.
You got some exceptions of course, though I really support what he says to the point where it made me say “Wow, he’s actually right”.
So when I first started playing there were only 6 stats, you couldn’t raise HP at all. Now you can raise your HP sometimes 100-150 points past where you are at lvl 20. That didn’t seem OP when it happened. It seemed like it was needed. 9 or so years ago it was equivalent to the bosses being released. Just look at what bosses were released back when they added life maxing. Now you have O3, it’s on a different level and we get a 25 hp boost… LOL yeah so OP
The thing is, this is a permanent account boost for the class (something OP in itself in contrast to the rest of the aspects of a permadeath game). It’s different than just having +25 hp; it’s always there in addition to the bonuses that will be obtained by using higher tier and better equipment.
Otherwise I mean I do so your viewpoint, but again, this is different than an extra 25 hp granted by some gear. I’d rather have them buff the T7 abilities further to add another extra 25 hp (not that I think they need buffed) than to further increase exaltation rewards. The permanent stat increases are unprecedented in rotmg (other than pets abilities in a way) and can easily lead to an overall change in the game if they were made too powerful.
Edit: And I think that buffing the T7 abilities as I mention above will similarly reward the same players for doing many completion of o3’s, but in a better way than further increase to the exaltation rewards. Again not saying I think T7 needs a buff at all, just using this as an example.
I want to remind that doing 75 o3s is not a random achievement, we’re talking about the hardest boss of the game, and which I’d say about 1-3% of the players are able to exalt, so 25hp for that big of an achievement seems like a really small reward for the skill it takes to accomplish
1:16 vs the exaltation proportion of 1:5. There’s a lot of differing ratios between defense and health even just in the ring tiers. Like T6 is suddenly 10:18. This is just because these rings are so god damn old. So many different personal inputs and very little changes. I like how HP rings scale, though. In relation to the 1:5, I personally just find the +5 total ATT/DEX pretty absurd from exaltations, but that’s just how they work. +10 HP/MP is probably the most in-line relation to these stat bonuses.
It’ll matter a lot if they boosted it. The last stretch of health you can achieve on your character being an exponential push is fine. I will spend 12+ life pots or whatever to snag a deca over an exahp. Same with grinding exaltations here.
Firstly, DECA said some time ago that they were looking for a way to make characters go beyond 8/8. Since they introduced Exaltations, I’m sure that’s the “step beyond 8/8” that they decided to go for. Not too overpowered if you get it, but meaningful. Now, as I stated above, every stat is meaningful except for Life and Mana, as +25 is barely nothing.
If it is supposed to be a step beyond 8/8 then at least give it some functionality for the hardwork, not +25 HP/MP and shrug it off as being already OP. There is no way a +50 boost would make players overpowered monsters in comparison to new players more than they already are with all the DPS gear that has been released recently. Have you even looked at the O3 minibosses’ whites? They are pure DPS. If anything makes a player an “Overpowered monster” is not even completing O3 (Reminder max exaltation is 75x O3) and getting a white that lets you out-DPS most stuff in the game. I’m not saying that they aren’t fitting for their difficulty, I’m just saying that O3, more than a mere +50 boost, is what you should be talking about if you wanna talk about overpoweredness in comparison to new players.
Players that have that +50 HP/MP boost, with or without it can still do the dungeon fine (otherwise they wouldn’t have it).
I agree that it is not designed to make players OP but it is designed to give players a significant boost. As I mentioned in the beginning of this post, it’s a way to go beyond 8/8. +25 HP/MP is not significant and I can’t see how you think otherwise, it’s so small you’ll ever have a use for it. Sure it’s on top of all the gear you wear but that doesn’t make it anything OP. +25 is still +25 and thats not a lot. Most end game stuff does so much damage that +25 is usually half of a single shot from an enemy.
Crystal cavern with Warrior, a melee class? every shot from a bat does around 60 damage and they explode into a dozen shots that travel at light speed.
It is not any more powercreeped than the almost crown-like DPS boost (if that’s the way you wanna go, cuz I find it fitting for doing 75 of the respective dungeons).
And no, this cannot lead to a 2.0 pet problem because:
Exaltations are not something everyone has the time to do
They are not easily accessible, like pets are.
They require the player to actually be skillful before-hand. If you can’t complete O3 / Void, you can’t get these Exaltations.
They are not infinitely (or absurdly) expandable, like pets up to Divine are.
They are not something you can throw your money at, to get them.
Sure money helps for the keys for most of these dungeons but O3 isn’t accessible through keys either way so no money can help you there. With pets all you had to do was pay for pet food and you have a divine (sure, fame, but that is easily exploitable too).
Again, it does not make players more OP than gear has made them in recent times. +50 is not that significant the majority of the time and on the off-chance that those +50 HP save their lives, they have all the right to it because they worked hard for those 75 Oryx 3 clears.
And honestly this is what bends my mind the most… “if anything, the bonuses are too strong”. Strong? Do you think perhaps +10 HP/MP would be more fitting for someone who completes the most endgame dungeons 75 times successfully?
And as BroMontana stated:
I mean… you’re talking about giving T7 abilities, something you can get in your first O3 run, the boost, rather than having them complete the dungeon 75 times to get it, which takes not just longer but a lot more skill and dedication… Sure they are permanent, but they should be promptly rewarded for what feels like an achievement.
Your average Joe can’t even complete a single O3 run so there’s no need to be worried that it will somewhat “break the game” because everyone is powercreeping as they were with pets. To those who can get it tho, it won’t suddenly make them tank 30 Oryx 3 shotguns to the face as you make it seem.
Again, +50, not very big. Decent but not overpowered. Just like the +5 from the other exaltations.
If people put in the work for something, they should be promptly rewarded for their achievements. +25 just feels too lacking to even consider it a decent boost, doing the highest difficulty dungeons 75 times, mind you.
O3 / Void take more than just pure luck and cheesing. Fortunately with IC/OOC stuff is not very cheesable anymore and actually requires skill so I think completing it 75 times proves very clearly that they can effectively complete the dungeon and should at least offer a good reward to those who did it that much. Exaltations are not just for bragging rights, they are also for the most dedicated players to get a better character overall for their hardwork.
Remember, if someone can complete O3 and Void without the +50 boosts, they sure as hell can complete anything else without those +50.