that depends on the desired outcome of the system. if the only change wanted was “make vit more important, make pets less important”, then yes it would be unnecessary to include this other stuff. but that isn’t the goal of the vital combat system. in addition to that, deca also wants “encourage dodging, discourage facetanking”, and if they only did a flat buff and nerf to vit and pets respectively that wouldn’t accomplish that at all.
so no, vital combat is not overly complex. it accomplishes what it needs to do and what it needs to do is not just “nerf pets”.
Edit: I’m genuinely curious what they are referring to as the 10 year mark… see the following post for reference, we were at build 100 and something 10 years ago… we’ve gotta be “closing in on” 11 years.
Edit 2: note the start dates for the oldest players on realmeye are capped at some date, but they mostly all started at a date earlier than that. The date is capped, idk why something with how the data was saved, but the game is surely older than 10 years…
We already had a solution to this problem: make every endgame bullet armor pierce, silence, pet stasis, and do upwards of 150 damage. Problem is, those relics of the past are still being held onto as time goes on. HP will continue to be the ultimate stat to max on any build (ex. all the new STs/UTs being strong players of HP), so messing with Vitality is mostly just for flavor.
We’re getting closer and closer to Touhou, but without kawaii desu witches to admire
I would say that you are unfortunately incorrect. Partially out of bias against full-HP builds, partially because…well…vitality keeping you within that regen range is more important than being able to survive some hits for a tad longer.
HP guarentees more of a buffer for Nexusing if things get too hairy/ the servers start taking a dump (if you wish to validate lag as an argument). As much as the “regen” window is great to have, you still have your current healing, a reduced (if not stasis’d) pet, various healers if in a group (a co-op game, remember), and a handful of potions to chug. Most of the last-second videos of people surviving death were because of having a large HP pool (and their pet healing them last second).
Vitality was just good so you don’t have to wait outside the boss room forever to heal/regen for an eon. But now most boss rooms close you off, so you’re forced to engage in combat most of the time regardless.
And don’t take me as defending HP builds; wisdom builds all the way.
you’re both wrong, invulnerable would make both stats irrelevant, which is why I advocate for more people to use invuln builds to “fairly” fight encounters.
but you can be wrong though, that’s fine, I’ll continue using oreo and waiting 24951 seconds to use it again
gonna be honest, none of that seems to have accomplished much of anything. I do not consider any of that a “solution”.
now this I do empathize with, and I agree it’s not a great direction for a game with permadeath to head towards. however this is related to a different issue rooted in deca’s and ugc’s attack pattern designs rather than any penalties (or lack thereof) for getting hit. ugc has had this idea in their heads for a long time that the key to making something hard is b u l l e t s and lots of them. and while they’re not wrong exactly, it certainly doesn’t play to any of the game’s strengths or patterns it established prior to LH. in retrospect, I’d argue that the reason LH was so “hard” initially was that it played entirely unlike anything else in the game, so no one had any opportunity to get accustomed to such bullet-dense behavior. you certainly aren’t going to have any experience like that fighting limon or skuld (pre-rework, still haven’t seen the new version at all).
rotmg never really placed any emphasis on the bullet hell side of things, because it never was a bullet hell game in the first place. it was merely called that at the time because there was nothing better to call it since everything combat-related was handled by bullets. post-LH ugc changed that. now all they consider is bullets, bullets, bullets, and bullets. more bullets. all the bullets. MORE bullets. M O R E. if you aren’t struck agog at the majesty of choreographed bullets coming out of this boss then you suck and should find another hobby because you don’t belong in ugc you loser. my boss uses so many bullets I have to stack 12 invisible entities on the boss to get around some stupid arbitrary bullet limit of 125 because some fool thought I was supposed to stop 9 bullet documents ago. I named my 2 dogs and 3 cats bullet so I can squeeze in even more bullets when I start rambling about my pets. I have so many bullets I ran out of room for a bed in my bedroom and I sleep on the couch instead, which is also made of bullets.
I tried experimenting with some different patterns that felt more like “attacks” rather than “bullet patterns” more akin to the older style of rotmg content while working on the soulsteel shrine before leaving ugc, but while it was “fun” controversially enough, in some corner of my mind I suspected people would bash it for looking so plain compared to the now standard bullet festival the bullet hungry bullets expect when they bullet bullets. that wasn’t what made me abandon the whole thing, that was due to my well-documented overall beef with rotmg as a whole by that point, it was just a little bonus doubt tacked on to the already massive pile.
if you want to blame rotmg turning into touhou, blame the fucking bullets rather than the vital combat system. in fact, I’m guessing part of the reason why bullet storms became so popular as a difficulty ramp is because it takes so goddamn much to bring down the absurdly overpowered healing capacities of regular players. vital combat could in theory enable a return to the “attack” based patterns of old rotmg and like what I tried working on myself, but in practice of course it isn’t because bullets are the coolest. it’s always bullets. don’t you know what bullet hell means? it’s the thing rotmg never was that we’re now shaming everyone for not enjoying. all the cool kids like bullets, do you want to be like the cool kids? bullets bullets bullets bullets bullets bullets bullets bullets bullets bullets bullets.
I wish not to blame Vitality Combat, but with it in place, we have to ramp down “Status Effect 2: Electric Bullet-loo.” Or, atleast return to patterns where a server hiccup makes your perfect movement useless and get fucked by three dead-zones.
or we go full throttle and get the cutest dang wizards i’ve ever seen
I honestly love the attack-style shots! Like the O3 phase where he swings his sword and creates a wall of shots that move to form a “V” pattern. It is makes so much sense that it is harder to avoid the attack when you are close, but further away you just have to dodge the tip of the sword, as it were.
I think having some bullet-hell bosses is pretty cool. Dammah is one of my favorite fights in the game (one of my favorite sprites, too, but that is unrelated). But that is because the attacks still make sense in a way! He is summoning these portals that are then shooting at you.
What doesn’t make sense is things like Gemsbok, who just launches random projectiles in all directions. Like, what is that thing to represent? What is going on here? Even Celestial makes more sense, in my opinion, you see Oryx spinning rapidly and can imagine how sword flashing out in every direction.
At least “tentacle” type attacks have some visual cohesion that allows them to make sense, even if they have become a bit overplayed at this point.
(Edit to not double-post)
I believe this is exactly the plan, but they said they are going to take it slowly one dungeon at a time to make sure they don’t screw it up like they might if they changed too much at once. I believe they are starting with removing confusion and blind from the Void, iirc. Looking forward to seeing continued progress in this area.
The game was created for a TIGSource contest in October of 2009. Realm was officially launched as a public beta in January of 2010. The beta ended in June of 2011.
I played on and off back in 2010, but didn’t really get into the game until I made this account in 2011. And even at that, it took a long time for me to escape the early game.
I’m really looking forward to this upcoming update. The early game hasn’t been reworked since Wild Shadow. And vital combat will return some semblance of skill back to the game!
Sure vital combat sucks but so does listening to y’all arguing. I click this thread hoping something of value has been said and it’s just more bickering ️
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