(New Scepter) Spectral Torchlight


#1

SPECTRAL TORCH
image

A fractured portion of what Septavius wields to command his undead legions. It burns an eerie fire, whispering the secrets of what lies in darkness.

STATS:

Tier UT
MP Cost 90
On Equip +5 Speed
Damage 100
Effect(s) Green Up Arrow Speedy on self for 3.5 Seconds.
Reveals area around each enemy hit (6 tile radius)
Range 20 tiles
Targeting Cone 180°
Targets 10 (+1 for every 10 WIS over 50)
Radius 25 tiles
Cooldown 5 Seconds
XP Bonus 6%
Soulbound Soulbound
Feed Power 600

Drops From:

More info:

I didn’t really play sorcerer too much so bear with me as I try to suggest this idea. Open to any mechanical suggestions. I was looking into more classes to play and it seemed like a lot of them had access to abilities which could support their allies and I thought it might be cool if the sorcerer also had an ability like this.

Canonically, the item was taken from tip of the staff Septavius holds. It was broken off while battling with him and although it is unfocused, still holds some command for communing the spirits of the afterlife.

What is revealed do?

As for the reaveling itself it essentially shows the position of the enemy on the mini-map regardless of the position of the player. So the player will be able to anticipate or in some cases predict what lies in the room. This ability would also update the minimap with how the terrain looks like around the enemy and would make it easier to scout dungeons and generally play safe. (Maybe this could be a debuff for the player too that some enemies could inflict but this is a bit off topic).

Overall this would make the player need to use the minimap more often rather than just relying on what they see. This will not effect how the field vision of the player as they will only see the enemy if it is in their field of vision.

I imagined this to be a useful swap out to contribute to the team when scouting out dungeons or finding treasure rooms. Although essentially useless in instances where once would want to deal damage. This could also help the player in terms of movement as the speedy may come in handy sometimes so rushing certain parts of the dungeon would be easier.

For the additional speed I imagined it would be more on the player being somewhat more vigilant or active of their surroundings hence slightly more “alert” movements.

I believe this would support the sort of scepter style of the sorcerer of being able to blast enemies from a far distance, yet this time they’ll be able to see what they are blasting and where they are. I also wanted to play into the theme of it being a torch that so it would be a different variation of a “scepter” which could provide the supportive trait of being able to “light the way” for allies. Although I understand this can be very niche and for a specific type of gameplay so I bumped the feed power a bit too. This way the sorcerer retains their position of being in the backline and still retaining some parts of their signature ability, although this time prioritizing a more utility based ability.

Let me know what you think of the ability in the comments or what you think about the idea in the poll! I’m generally open to suggestions and thoughts to edit this idea so about this so feel free to comment what you think about it!

Edit History

Edit#1: Removed the -5 Wis on stat equip. Still considering a way to balance the out the item. Currently just going to settle for a high mana cost. Also reduced time for revealed duration hoping to make it more balanced.

Edit#2: Removed the bat mechanic and delayed reaction. Focused on inflicting revealed instead.


What do you think about the idea?

  • The idea is great!
  • The idea is good.
  • The idea is okay.
  • The idea is bad.

0 voters


#2

Sorc is my favourite class, so am happy to comment on this. The idea of a delayed reaction Sceptre which leaves timed bombs instead of doing direct damage is interesting, but it’s quite a down-grade from the normal way of doing instant damage. If you want delayed damage play a 'Sin or Huntress. So you would need to do more damage.

Revealed though I don’t think is a good idea. It’s fundamental to the design of the game that you can only see so far ahead of you. If you want to find e.g. that Abyss treasure room you need to explore right up until its entrance.

It’s gamebreaking too in a particular way, in respect of balace between people with different PCs. I mean you can play the game at resolutions down to Flash’s 800 x 600 and the experience is much the same, as far as how the game is revealed to you.

But with Revealed you really need to play at a higher resolution, so you can see the areas revealed to you. A Sceptre often hits targets a long distance away, so everyone will be playing at as high a resolution as they can to see as much as possible of what’s revealed.

Also why -5 WIS? Better just to remove one target to the same effect.


#3

Agreed with Skandling, almost to a T save the final point. I love the concept of this scepter, but I’ve never liked the idea of the “revealed” status effect anytime anyone has brought it up (because believe me, you aren’t the first).


#4

This is much appreciated input! I’ll keep all these in mind for editing some parts of the skills but would like to first respond to some of these points.

I had the initial plan of having the bomb detonate should any player get close enough, dealing some sort of status effect or damage so it would be easier to bypass the enemy.

I see the potential of this now though because back when I tried Sorcerer one time I found it a bit frustrating if nothing else was getting hit by my chain lightning if something in the middle of its bounces died so it would make the range a bit “shorter” sometimes. Maybe this a mechanic like this could override that so the sorc would be able to “bounce” their damage continuously. Though again I don’t really play the class too much so I’m not sure if this would be balanced.

This mechanic was implemented mainly as a sort of “Radar” effect where there would be a short delay before enemies get spotted.

Process of Logic on making this ability

Yeah I was worried this would come up. I didn’t really think of my suggestion as something game breaking but rather providing a sort of convenient utility. I was mainly comparing it to the Priest counterpart of a wand class where the class had access to a plethora of self-buffs, healing, and utility given the right items, whereas the Sorcerer just struck me as just dealing a large amount of multi-targeted damage. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the Sorc though, as I imagine it would have really good DPS having stuff like Lumiare but just thought it might be fun to have it have more utility options or variance too. I would just want to make it more convenient for players to not hit a dead end or cut down a little bit of time on finding that treasure room.

With that out of the way, I just want to clarify some more things about how I suggested Revealed. The player technically would still have the same range of vision and would still need to explore or pass the area technically, it would be just that the player’s minimap would be constantly updated with the location of the enemies, not that the enemies would always be seen if outside the player’s vision.

As for it being game breaking in terms of the design of the game, (although I personally am not sure on making this argument) to be fair other UTs also seem a bit game breaking or enable the player to defy or bend the rules to some extent. Invulnerability from Crystal Shield or Blasphemous Seal allowing the player to tank a shotgun that they were supposed to die from. Rogues being apparently able to breathe underwater. Purification from the Skull of Endless Torment or Purification tome being able to ignore certain status effects. etc. These are some class specific items that allow the player to be able to play around certain rules.

As a whole the point I wanted to get to was questioning if it was really game breaking or a neat ability to be applied in certain situations where the player doesn’t wanna deal with running into 5 dead ends all ending up in flashing HP with the people in the dungeon saying the rusher sucks and ends up leaving while I was all alone in the sewers. I’m not salty yur salty shattup :c .

Jokes aside, I guess maybe toning down or removing revealing the area around the enemies? So the players would still need to scout out the area itself but know what they would be facing, or at least how many and where they are. Though to me this might be a bit weak but that might just be me. It could also reward players for using the mini map to spot enemies instead of just teleporting to players.

That’s pretty much all I wanted to say about it for now, I really like all the points brought up so far and find this to be very interesting. Thanks again for your input!!! Looking forward to discussing more about this idea.

Edit: Forgot to bring this up

I wanted to play into the theme of the “whispers the spectral flame” draining sanity of the player. Hmm, maybe I could rework this to be a drawback instead for using this ability? Open to suggestions but want to let some thoughts simmer for now.


#5

That’s fair, I’m considering either reworking it with the main focus of the mechanic of conditional explosions (i.e. if another player approaches the mob close enough) or reworking how “Revealed” status works. Although I believed I’ve discussed everything I wanted to bring up in my reply to Skandling so far!

Edit: I’m actually very interested in whats been discussed so far in concept for a “Revealed” Status and the discussions it holds. Didn’t really know this so I appreciate how you brought it up, I’ll try to look into this too!


#6

All of those are balanced though. Invulnerability comes with a high MP cost/short duration/cooldown so even with an 8/8 and 100/100 pet it cannot be always on, and you need careful timing to use it against an otherwise lethal shotgun. Healing procs are common now, partly balanced by tougher bosses and IC nerfing pet heal. And Puri was massively nerfed, while Endless Torment only purifies if you heal off enough enemies – hard enough with its small range, and impossible against many if not most bosses.


#7

Re -5 WIS I generally think WIS/MP adjustments on your ability are a very bad idea. Better e.g. to tweak the ability so it costs more/less or has more/less effect.

The problem is it makes it much harder to compare. E.g. this has 10 targets + 1 per 5 WIS over 50, which makes sense (though the ‘per 5’ is lower than any other sceptre). So it should give you 12 targets at 60 WIS, the Sorc’s max. Except it also subtracts 5 WIS so in practice you have only 11 targets.

With WIS also affecting damage on most Sceptres it becomes even more complex. Simpler just to leave WIS alone therefore, so different abilities can be compared more easily, and instead adjust the target count and any damage the Sceptre does.


#8

I guess I took the phrase “game-breaking” as something final or that the idea shouldn’t or can’t be implemented in the game. Because I’m not exactly saying those items aren’t balanced, They very much are balanced and their rarity also adds to this to some extent. The point I wanted to get as is that if “Revealed” or additional visibility was gonna be a mechanic, would it be viable as an ability? What drawbacks would it need to not be something broken?

These were examples I brought up not because they were broken, but allowed certain things to be accessible to the player or ease certain situations. Like the game sorta saying “Sure you can tank a couple of these shots” or “Sure you can ignore one or two of these status effects on you right now”.


#9

Oooo great points here! I’ll keep this in mind for balancing the item idea. I’m leaning towards a more/less effect. I wanted it to be useful for spotting a bunch of enemies.

I am a dumb and thought Sorcs would like go like 75 or above, I really shoulda checked out the class a bit more in hindsight…

Might rework some parts of the ability in the next edit with this in mind though! Legit thanks for all your input so far!


#10

Sorc is odd like that. You would think as a robe class it would max at 75 but no…

It does mean though that Sceptres are balanced around 60+ WIS, the + coming from your Robe, Ring and often your Wand. Just wearing a GSorc gives you +6 WIS, so 16 above 50 and enough for 1 or 2 extra targets with most Sceptres. A few more WIS from a Wand or Ring can add an extra target and more per-target damage.


#11

Hey also just want to point out just in case that this scepter deals no damage, so I didn’t really include the per-target damage anymore :sweat_smile: .

Yes I don’t really know how to do that wis-mod format quite yet…


#12

So I love the theming and your take on “reveal” (which I hadn’t seen previously)! This is a genuinely interesting niche that I agree fits well on an ability like scepters. I assume the bats would work on inactive enemies (which can’t be damaged or slowed slowed with something like fulmi) and would not in itself activate them, right?

My critique: Remove or greatly decrease the cool down. Cool downs impact your ability to use other abilities and 10s is way too long in a game paced like this to be used on anything that is a swap out. This is essentially what kills the lightshow scepter and its set. By the time you get the wis buff to make an impact on other scepters, you’ve lowered your mp too much to effectively swap. If you are worried about perma-speedy, then remove that or adjust it down. While thematically interesting, I don’t see that being an essential part of this item’s functionality anyway.
And I do struggle a bit to see where this would actually be useful honestly. Speedy makes me want to use it for rushing, but the delay on both speedy and reveal make that seem silly. In most cases it’s best to just rush past or clear anyway… regardless of where exactly enemies are. If not for the cool down maybe wlabs to help find the elusive troom? I feel like it’s waiting on a dungeon that hasn’t been released.

Also 8% xp feels a little high :).


#13

Honestly, kinda don’t know where I went for this idea XD. I had the initial plan of just having the bats detonate upon having a player approach it close enough, dealing a crippling status effect to the enemy momentarily allowing for easier rushing. BUT considering the main idea of this scepter would be to inflict the revealed status I might just save the idea for the bats for another time or another item idea at the very least. I wanted to keep the bats for now to see if they would work towards adding a specific niche to it.

I had the intention of having this be used for rushing too but wanted to have some sort of niche to make it more situational, so I opted for a sort of delay as well so the effect won’t kick in immediately, but midway you’ll see where you are actually headed on your map. Problem would be since you are rushing, its hard to keep track of the mini map as well as the enemies and using this carelessly would get you in trouble.

…Or at least thats the idea I had for it. It just seemed too OP to have had instant vision of the map when rushing. I’ll try to edit the cooldown and the speedy delay because I kinda see how it makes sense now.

I really don’t want this to be too dungeon specific but I see how it could be cool. Maybe it could be a dungeon mechanic entirely! where some players need to keep up torches in a dungeon or else you’ll lose visibility of the monsters or something? I can imagine it being horror-ish themed. Damn kinda tempted to try my hand at making something like this but yeah. For now I’m gonna put this idea on hold after my next edit.


#14

Reworked the idea to remove the bats, and delayed reaction, decided to be more straightforward and focus on revealing instead. Might move this mechanic to another idea instead.


#15

Makes so much more sense now. Speedy for a greater uptime than just using snake eye ring = good. And just focusing on the reveal? Great. Xp bonus appropriate given drop location? Yes. If I could change my poll answer I would. Legitimate scouting and rushing tool.


#16

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