Post your unpopular opinions about realm here

#2339

Armored is rarely useful in any endgame dungeon scenario and in general speedy is way more reliable, i’d only use it for gland clearing but other than that its a very below average item IMO

#2340

If you are tanking non armor-piercing shot, Jugg still can help you survive during crucial moment even with the post-nerfed Armor. Definitely not O3 Celestial as either Armored/Speedy can still kill a Warrior quite easily.

Speedy is only useful for evading hits from certain O3 phases as an example. For MBC and other bullet-hellish bosses, Speedy will mess up your dodging.

#2341

No speedy doesnt mess up dodging speedy makes dodging easier and more consistent, on top of that jugg is rarely useful for anything other than straight up being a clown lol

#2342

If you are very skilled at using speedy, it will absolutely be helpful.
I personally do not like warrior for this reason, because I cannot control the speedy well for it to be helpful to me. I assume Sakura is the same way.
I generally use amber encrusted helmet from ancient ruins when I play warrior to still buff myself and the group, without speedying.

Also worth mentioning, as someone who has played on an awful computer, and with poor internet, those things coupled with speedy could result in severe frameskips and black tiling, even more than usual, which is deadly

#2343

Dammah Knifewall with Speedy hmmmm???

Well obviously if you are taking something like Gaze shotgun like an idiot that is.

#2344

That is an example of somewhere that requires very precise dodging not dodging fast bullets into completely random places aka the entire o3 fight

#2345

well armored status isnt that lowering the damage you are taking. When it comes to warrior speedy effect is way more better than armored. Besides that jugg is sooooo hard to get in yet item isnt that good for some reasons. So in the end hell of jugg isnt that great thet ppl was talking about it is avarage to me tbh.

#2346

I, for one, am sick of people calling defense “basically worthless” in endgame situations like O3.

So, I went through the wiki pages on all the O sanc minibosses, the dungeon itself, and the O3 bossfight. Here are the numbers:

Oryx’s Sanctuary (the dungeon):
45 different shots, 7 of them pierce armor, 38 of them do not. Only 2 shots give armor broken, both from the same enemy.

Dammah:
41 different shots, 8 of them pierce armor, 33 of them do not. 4 shots give armor broken.

Gemsbok:
37 different shots, 11 of them pierce armor, 26 of them do not. Only 1 shot gives armor broken.

Beisia:
65 different shots, 24 of them pierce armor, 41 of them do not. 3 shots give armor broken, all from the same minion.

Leucoryx:
32 different shots, 21 of them pierce armor, 11 of them do not. However, there are 0 armor breaking shots throughout this whole bossfight.

and finally,

Oryx 3:
80 different shots, 8 of them pierce armor, and a whopping 72 shots do not pierce armor. furthermore, according to the wiki, there are no armor breaking shots in this entire fight, aside from the armor break counter.

Notes: We don’t care about exposed, bc it doesn’t actually reduce the value of your defense. Also, sorry about the probably terrible spelling i didn’t look up how to spell the names.

#2347

No one calls defence “worthless” however the problem is that defence isn’t as good as HP once you have around 40 def~. However I do agree that defence is a very underrated survivability stat and can be extremely useful in most situations. The major problem with defence and what people don’t understand is that 90% of armors already give DEF compared to the 4 that I can think of off the top of my head that give HP and out of those 4 only one of them solely gives HP. This is why most people will use a defence ring over a HP ring as armors already give the defence needed. On top of that the amount of def a defence ring gives is pitiful compared to the 180hp a UBHP ring gives, for example using a t15 heavy armor with a UBHP ring will give 28 def and 180 HP but if you use BPlate with a UBDEF you will get 24 def and 160 HP. This is why people use HP rings over DEF rings as the armor already gives the def you need. I will also point out that some of the best rings such as: coro, cranium, horn give HP and def.

#2348

Notes: We don’t care about exposed, bc it doesn’t actually reduce the value of your defense. Also, sorry about the probably terrible spelling i didn’t look up how to spell the names.

Yes, it does. Defense is the one stat in the game that becomes more valuable the more of itself you have, excepting quite possibly speed, up until you start hitting 85% damage reduction cap on shots. Corrolary: It is also the one stat that becomes less valuable the less of it you have.

The number of shots that deal x damage each you can survive skyrockets explosively as x approaches 0, and with it, the value of each additional def that gets you 1 point of flat damage reduction there. At the 85% damage reduction cap, you need 1/(1-0.85) = 6.6666… times more shots to take the same damage at 0 def.

With that said, the knight’s max possible defense at 100 with 770 health lets him survive (with 20 hp), 15 100 damage shots, and 7 200 damage shots. My God. Nothing I can do in a robe class can let me eat 7 200 damage shots and get away with it.

That’s the good side of def. Here on the opposite extreme, 4 200s, which are hardly the worst things I can eat in O3, is all I can survive on a wizard with a specialized defense set. Hah! Stacking def is a waste of the wizard’s high built in atk and dex.

I say all this before any mention of armor piercing.

UBDef beats UBHP at 19 shots. If you ate 19 shots in o3 on the miniboss, I promise it’s not the def that saves you if you live. It’s probably your pet and the bag of 12+ hp pots. Which have similar defensive behaviour to +x max hp.

If it’s any conciliation, def is the unsung hero of the people out and about in the realm, because damage values aren’t so damn high out here. There’s a good reason def was the primary currency for the majority of the game’s history.

#2349

its two l’s not one, you might wanna fix that

#2350

You aren’t taking into consideration what those shots actually do in each of the phases.

For example: Dammah. There are three challenging phases in Dammah. Sicken knife walls, Miasma, and Disintegrate. In all three, HP is more important than DEF.

Sicken Knife Walls: The knives pierce armor. Enough said.

Miasma: Although DEF may be of more importance here, high HP is more helpful, as it allows for you to recover more HP in the periods that you’re unsickened. I’d honestly argue that attack is more useful than anything else here since this is a phase that you push Dammah out of.

Disintegrate: The red arrows armor break and they are followed by shots that do a pretty decent amount of raw damage. Without high HP, these can be pretty deadly.

But honestly I don’t even know why I’m arguing. I don’t mean to insult you, but the way that you structured your post makes me think that you don’t have much O3 experience. Like… All of the shots in celestial pierce armor, and that’s probably the greatest filter in the O3 fight. Heavens pierce armor, and that’s probably the second greatest filter in the O3 fight.

PS: Since I know some of you are just itching to inform me that the Dammah phases I mentioned aren’t challenging, I’d like to tell you to just not. You aren’t impressing anyone here.

#2351

You aren’t taking into consideration what those shots actually do in each of the phases.

My point was to demonstrate defense is very outclassed by hp in o3, particularly on lower defense classes, even before counting armor penetration, so I could convince people who still believed in def in spite of consideration of armor penetration.

I deliberately left that out because I expected other people to bring up armor penetration’s ubiquity in o3. Because its low hanging fruit that supports my point anyway, and bringing it up myself would just be like killing spiders with a hammer.

The way that you structured your post makes me think that you don’t have much O3 experience.

My degree of experience in o3 is off topic. I will neither confirm nor deny I have considerable o3 experience.

#2352

I was replying to wisegorm x)

#2353

Replying to everyone, fair points all around. I’ve never considered how the value of defense drops with less of it, very interesting actually. Although, the effect of exposed on the value of def is still very small compared to AP/AB shots completely ignoring def. Not really making any big arguments here, and you’re right, I hardly ever get to do O3. I just think def is waaay underrated, and I personally hear a lot about how it’s because of all the AP shots in endgame situations. The numbers I found on the wiki surprised and intruged me, so I posted them here. I would also agree that def is substantially less valuable than HP.

#2354

The speedy buff completely relies on how comfortable you are with using it, if you’ve been playing warrior for ages then the transition between speedy and non speedy shouldn’t be a problem at all, and of course if you dodge consistently / happen to have a divine pet you can keep the speedy buff up all the time which is nothing but a positive, you can always microclick to adjust yourself to phases where speedy might seem unreliable, referring to my first point.

Once again in endgame content (in my case) it won’t matter if you have 60 def or 90 def, you’ll still die 99% of the time because the shot either armor breaks, you get armor broken, or it deals 200+ dmg in which your def wouldn’t matter.

Ofc in the most unlikely scenario you might end up with 1 hp because you were armored, but that never happens to me as all my deaths are ones where it wouldn’t matter if I had 0 def or 100 def, hence why I find the jugg to be extremely overrated, however it might be an S tier item for another player which gets saved by armored often.

In general I find jugg to be a decent item, but just nothing I could ever use with my style of gameplay.

#2355

Also to add on to my other comment, the item is stupidly rare for being barely better than a t6 in the most what if scenarios(IMO), it sure is a flex having one on your warrior though!

#2356

Then what do you propose to rebalance Jugg?

#2358

Increase the effect of the item by alot and make it reduce speed on use.
I feel this would cerement it as the “tanky” helmet.

The drawbacks of this is that it would just become a knock off cshield.

#2359

Maybe reducing Armor Piercing shot damage by 1/4?