Post your unpopular opinions about realm here

#1241

Impatience kills

#1242

Does “in general” mean sourcestone is generally rarer than omni? Owo

#1243

Lemme help you out, since you seem confused (somehow, even though he was very clear with his word pictures). Sourcestone leads you to Omni (this is a general truth).

#1244

I feel like my reply is gonna get me an r/whoosh. Is it?

#1245

I’d trade 5 source for 1 Omni.

#1246

Nah, I dunno what he was getting at. Your guess is probably better than mine.

#1247

The problem with DECA’s high-end bosses like crystal-bosses/oryx3/void/marble/oryx-courts are… almost no room for breathing.
Mean that there are no time to break from constant bullet hell, or no “safe” room/tile for back off (like Tomb and O2).
The power of concentration required to stay in those boss rooms is almost equal as landing an airplane, but in more than 10+ minutes!.
Cmon DECA, childrens play games to get break from teachers, math, bully, etc. Not for another stressful minutes, :grin:.

Also i think if DECA wanting more players, or keep players to stay, and since most players will spent most of the time being level 20, add more high-end but casual boss/dungeon with high rewarding items, like high-lvl boss that shoot big damage but less bullet hell, fun yet still thrilling like when we on leveling stage, but for high-level players. If DECA keep adding more hardcore content, then only those kind of “insane-skilled” gamer will enjoy and stay.

#1248

I don’t like the Elder Realms idea.

I respect the effort put into it, but as I was reading through the document I not once got the feeling that it would actually be enjoyable to play once the novelty wore off, and that it would fairly quickly. I find it interesting and neat, but not great, not the catalyst for some amazing revival and revitalization of Realm, and certainly not anywhere near as good as the community as a whole seems to declare it to be.

To add to that, Deca’s response of “cool” was exactly the right response. Acknowledge it, respect the effort, make it clear that it is pretty cool, but also pretty succinctly spell out that nobody should expect it to be implemented. Anything more would get latched onto as “proof” that “they’re totally implementing it you guys believe me they totally said it one time that’s definitive proof” and set those people up for disappointment (and outrage, and accusations of lying) when nothing happens. I’ve seen that exact type of thing happen all the time in online games where the developers are just a little too enthusiastic about any fan-created content, even (especially) when they try to make it clear there’s no plan to use it.

#1249

This makes sense. Even I’m not deluded enough to see that - though Elder Realms might be pretty interesting on the surface - it is still built on a fundamentally flawed foundation - that of RotMG’s core design - which makes it in no way revolutionary, or the paradigm shift that the game really needs.

Thanks for actually giving the document a read - but perhaps you haven’t quite made it to the bit at the end in which I try to explain my motives (and who could blame you)… the Elder Realm is pure fantasy. I was never working under the illusion that it would make it into the game, and I’m trying very hard not to trick people into thinking it will. Numerous parties have approached me asking for permission to code Elder Realms and make it real - and I have, so far, declined every single time.

After four very popular ideas, over half a decade of trying, and seeing community members significantly less experienced and younger than me join the UGC group, I have made peace with the reality that nothing I design will ever make it into this game - this game that I have loved. Now I’ll be entirely transparent. Elder Realms is not a genuine idea - it’s compensation for that fact. It’s an expression of my love for this game - its an attempt to achieve some sort of recognition - and it’s an attempt, I’m afraid to say, to make some higher-ups realise they might have missed a trick by not involving me earlier. A very cruel and ambitious side of me will derive some satisfaction from knowing that ‘elder realms’ - a beloved and age old concept from the wildshadow days - has been tangled up with my efforts, and will likely be remembered as such for a long time.

It’s fair to say that my relationship with the idea is complicated. On the one hand, I have brought entertainment to a considerable audience, some of whom have even donated on patreon. On the other hand, I have squandered my talents for a game that has refused to recognise them for many years. On the one hand, I have learned some great lessons along the way - about storytelling, for example, or self-motivation - and on the other, those lessons have come at the cost of other creative and academic outlets. Overall I don’t think I regret it. But, after one or two more updates that I’ve set for myself, I will never do anything like it again. After all, my time here is waning… and as I grow more mature in my thoughts, it is clear that this mode of creative expression is a tin-can tied to my kite-tails. I will enjoy it while it lasts…

I’m very sorry but I still simply cannot accept this. A more appropriate answer would have been ‘This is cool - we respect the effort but we have no plans to ever add it to the game’.

‘Cool’ is indifferent. And indifference is the cruellest response to a piece of creative expression, because it fundamentally evidences a lack of engagement with the art. To brush something off as ‘cool’ is to immediately invalidate the work that’s gone into it - it is a failure to treat the artist on the terms that their art has established, and it is thus a failure to treat the artist with respect. A frosty reception is worse than being booed off stage. In other words, ‘cool’ does not care. And for a document that I worked on for two years, driven by pure passion alone, whether you like the content or not - I don’t think it’s appropriate.

Let’s also factor in DECA’s belated explanation that ‘elder realms’ was being interpreted not as my specific idea but just as the abstract concept. This partially validates the response ‘cool’ because there’s no tangible art to engage with behind that. But at a time when the specific idea was obviously on lots of people’s minds - dare I assume, even the questioner’s - is it not rather callous, not to simply acknowledge it? I won’t say that DECA backpedalled with that clarification - I have no evidence to suggest that - but at the very best it’s incredibly tone deaf (as the amount of backlash might testify). I hope that makes some sense? And apologies if I come across as bitter here - that response really got on my wick, whichever elder realms it referred to :sweat_smile:

I’ll conclude this rambling response by making it clear that yes, I agree, elder realms would not intrinsically do all that much for the game. It’s literally just more of the same stuff, the same stuff over and over (believe me, that becomes very clear when one’s writing it) - but it was never meant to be. It’s my ‘love letter and farewell letter’, not a building-plan or a panacea. It’s my legacy and your entertainment within this community, if you so wish to engage with it.

Apologies if this sounded in any way ruthless or egotistical… as you might well imagine it’s been quite a big thing for me lately :sweat_smile: Thanks for being a honest voice of dissent and I greatly respect your opinion.

Puffagod

#1250

Incredibly sorry that this was how you saw it as that was not at all our intention!

The answer was meant for Elder Realms as a concept, from Kabam’s original vision on future endgame content to any fan creation using the concept as a base such as yours. We wanted to quickly acknowledge the idea without spending too much time writing some vague response as we could never promise any implementation or, the opposite the non-implementation of such a concept. The Q&A was incredibly long, much longer than we anticipated and to speed up time we decided to answer this question in a more goofy manner as simply put we didn’t have much to add beyond what could easily be assumed.

As for the UGC part of your post, I can’t answer you on why that never happened in the past as I didn’t work at DECA yet, while I obviously can’t promise anything will ever happen we are currently not in a state where we can increase our capacity of UGC people in terms of design/XML as we are already struggling to manage and support that part due to our resources being focused on big internal projects like Oryx 3 and other unannounced things. I actually tried to take a look at your document earlier today but didn’t have any luck with it loading.

On a more personal note, unrelated to DECA and our possible plans for the future, I’ve always thought the concept of Elder Realms was a good one for the game to take but as this very thread (and countless others here, on reddit or discord) highlights is that the game still has a lot of issues that makes expanding the game forward a tricky thing to do until the existing parts of the game have been looked at and cleaned up.

#1251

Thank you so much for all your clarification! Honestly, no hard feelings, I can very much respect the weird circumstances of a Q&A. I wish you, the rest of DECA and the UGC the best of luck for future additions - and hope that document loads one day! But honestly and once again, thank you so much for your kind explanation, it means a lot :slight_smile:

#1252

Let me be clear, I admire that you’re dedicated to actually create something of this magnitude and put it out there, lord knows that novel I’ve been wanting to work on for fifteen years hasn’t seen anywhere near that much attention. And it’s not you expecting it to be implemented, it’s more the response from other people I’ve seen here and elsewhere, acting like Deca’s at fault or is stupid or is trying to kill the game somehow by not implementing it. Which, to be clear, is absolutely not your fault and I apologize that I phrased it that way.

I don’t even really have any specific issues or feedback about it, just a sort of general… discomfort? might be the right word, reading through it. I don’t have any real justification. I just wanted to put it out there, since I had seen pretty much overwhelming support for it, and I felt a bit alone in not feeling that way.

#1253

Heaven knows I also have that novel… and there I was, monomaniacally scrawling RotMG stuff instead. Honestly man, nothing to apologise for - I totally get where you’re coming from. It disturbs me too - possibly in a slightly different way, but I certainly sympathise :slight_smile:

#1254

I think you would have a much easier time getting your idea into the game if it was more condensed and made as part of the realm rework, the elder realm document itself is good but has so much content it would take years to make alone so the idea is rather unrealistic. I especially appreciate the more distinct and well made biomes.

#1255

I agree - if the point was to get it into the game (which it isn’t). It is literally designed to be unrealistic - the document mentions it several times, and I’ve tried to make it clear elsewhere - its an exercise in pure fantasy, a ‘closet drama’ to flex creative muscles, entertain readers, make a point and nothing more. There are more intelligent ways to get something into the game than slaving over one idea for years imo - it was never my intent :slight_smile: Although I’m glad you enjoyed some of the ideas inside!

#1256

Oh boy. Let’s see…

Deca’s “rework” of every dungeon so far has ruined the identity of those dungeons. Cem used to be a good source of weapons for newer players, and provided a few interesting UTs that more experienced players could farm. Now it’s incredibly slow, boring, unrewarding and way too hard for inexperienced players to complete in small groups. It feels like another LOD/nest situation where nobody really consistently runs the dungeon unless there’s an event/huge group. Shaitan used to be a fast boss fight with admittedly terrible loot, but at least it was quick, posed a good threat, and had a unique boss battle. New shaitan took everything that was wrong with the old one (invuln phases, screen clutter, poor risk/reward) and cranked it up to 11. Now it takes much, much longer, and seems to drop equally terrible loot. NOBODY runs Shaitans, and even during events I find myself incredibly bored by the long, tedious fight for absolutely no reward, besides the incredibly slim chance to get the ut skull. The same thing can be said about LOD - while I do appreciate the removal of chests, the dragons simply take far too long to kill and still drop abysmal loot. Ivory is similar, although at least it is more engaging than the old fight.

I despise “Endgame dungeons” like Lost Halls, crystal caverns, nest, etc. that practically require you to use discord to get a reliable chance to even see the boss rooms. They are balanced around gigantic deathball Discord runs, and for someone who hates using discord, this drives me away from these dungeons. I don’t want to wait 15-20 minutes for a run to open up, then rush into the AFK check, then rush into a server, into a bazaar only to find out that the 14 year old raid leader told the key to pop the millisecond before myself and 30 other people even load into the bazaar. Not to mention the game design flaws which prevent you from seeing anything when you’re standing in groups of 50+ people. I would say 80-90% of the times I died in a lost halls were from some enemy I couldn’t see instantly killing me because there were 70 other players in the same 5 tile radius as me.
/rant
TLDR: Deca’s rebalances generally make fights less fun and take longer. Dungeons shouldn’t require (or at least be balanced around) gigantic groups or discord to complete.

#1257

Everything except Skuld is basically the same, it wasn’t much of a rework, more like a polish run, how is it slower or more unrewarding than what it used to be? The enemies take less time to kill and slightly less time to spawn, and there’s more drops

Nothing unique about standing in a corner healing to tank loads of minions and shotguns

What? New Shaitan is infinitely more fair since you can actually dodge him to not have to tank everything, screen clutter? There’s fights with alot more shots, you’re right about the bad reward part tho

That only applies to Lost Halls, Nest and Fungal can be ran from realms fairly reliably, but Lost Halls (atleast Void) admittedly is a dungeon with alot of shit tier design, especially, when it comes to being even remotely fair for realms, with layer upon layer of unfair things for realms up to how you access Void, who himself is a bad boss, it also has MSeal which singlehandedly trivializes 90% of all bosses, MBC is its’ only redeeming factor. None of these dungeons except Halls are balanced around discords at all, discords steamroll them with no danger, even in realms, you can easily facetank them with enough priests, i don’t know if you’ve ever fought the boss of Crystal Cavern but it’s really underwhelming how much of a joke the fight is most of the time

The lack of visibility is an issue but has nothing to do with the dungeon’s design, it’s just a lack of transparent players, but that will be in Exalt full release anyways

Again, doesn’t apply to anything but Halls

#1258

While I have come to peace with the fact that the elder realms will probably never make it into the game, I always had hope of Oryx’s Paracosm being added. It felt like a fitting sequel to Oryx’s defeat, (if I interpreted the lore correctly of course), and fits into the framework of what i know as realm well enough to the point that I think that it could be a very enjoyable end game dungeon.

#1259

As @Megayeah already said, none of the dungeons you are mentioning are meant to be completed by using Discords. The 3 dungeons (Nests, Lost Halls and Crystal Caverns) are easily doable with small groups and can indeed be ran from Realms. Saying that they were designed for large groups is really wrong tbh, if you actually have the patience to learn and practice, they even can be done solo… They are numerous people in this game, myself includeed, who like to do solo/duo/trio cults or even MBC from sentries if they feel like it. Same goes for Nests or Fungals. They just take much longer to run than in a Discord run with 65 peoples and buffs everywhere, but they’re really fun to do if you have the patience it takes to do a 20-30 mins solo MBC/Cult/Fungal. The only exception goes to Voids, but if you find a good guild with like 10-20 peoples who know what they are doing, you can manage to do them aswell.
The way you talk about theses dungeons just make me feel like you’ve never actually tried to do them in any other way than by using Discords, wich indeed you won’t do often since you said you hate using it…

#1260

Heck, my first MBC run was with 10 other people who all randomly just went in after Sentry died, we beat Colo, though I had to nexus in the last phase due to pet stasis and a lack of healers, I know the others at least finished.