While I have come to peace with the fact that the elder realms will probably never make it into the game, I always had hope of Oryx’s Paracosm being added. It felt like a fitting sequel to Oryx’s defeat, (if I interpreted the lore correctly of course), and fits into the framework of what i know as realm well enough to the point that I think that it could be a very enjoyable end game dungeon.
As @Megayeah already said, none of the dungeons you are mentioning are meant to be completed by using Discords. The 3 dungeons (Nests, Lost Halls and Crystal Caverns) are easily doable with small groups and can indeed be ran from Realms. Saying that they were designed for large groups is really wrong tbh, if you actually have the patience to learn and practice, they even can be done solo… They are numerous people in this game, myself includeed, who like to do solo/duo/trio cults or even MBC from sentries if they feel like it. Same goes for Nests or Fungals. They just take much longer to run than in a Discord run with 65 peoples and buffs everywhere, but they’re really fun to do if you have the patience it takes to do a 20-30 mins solo MBC/Cult/Fungal. The only exception goes to Voids, but if you find a good guild with like 10-20 peoples who know what they are doing, you can manage to do them aswell.
The way you talk about theses dungeons just make me feel like you’ve never actually tried to do them in any other way than by using Discords, wich indeed you won’t do often since you said you hate using it…
Heck, my first MBC run was with 10 other people who all randomly just went in after Sentry died, we beat Colo, though I had to nexus in the last phase due to pet stasis and a lack of healers, I know the others at least finished.
Cosmic kinda has a point, while I do believe the reworks have all been for the better, the HP scaling is often overtuned making many bosses and even their pet mobs so beefy its a slog fest killing them, & the loot is often a little too inconsistent. Also hes kinda right, Cemetary used to be a nice easy place to gather loot for the under level 20’s, now the final boss rips em apart. & despite the event we just saw I had yet to see even 1 ST drop, nor a white from the final boss. ALSO WHY DOES THAT HALLOWEEN RESKIN OF PUPPET ENCORE DROP UTTER GARBAGE?
also yes, the LH / caverns are practically never getting done in public realms, while cult is doable, the marble boss is so taxing nobody wants to face it & have any public voids ever even happened? At least more ppl lately are joining for nests as they’ve realised it can actually be done in public but the other 2 are avoided.
& Megajaja also touches another problem pretty well, many of these harder boss fights leave you no time to blink or breath. I admire the commitment to taking away the leeches free lunches, but dude give us a little room to sit still safely to stretch & actually blink!
I wouldn’t call the ST trickster set “utter garbage”, but you do you…
How many Lost Halls that drop from sentries do you see actually completed? what about caverns? I’ll agree that nests sometimes do get ran in realms, but even those are usually failed. I’m not sure how “easily doable in small groups” LHs and caverns are when 95% of players nexus within 1 minute of the dungeon opening.
I have ran LHs, etc in small groups. I just don’t enjoy the gameplay, running through identical grey square rooms and killing very high HP enemies. Cults are more reasonable, but MBC and the rest of the dungeon is an absolute chore. And, realistically, the only way to get the UTs in a reasonable time frame is to grind them in a discord because of their drop rates.
They added an entire new area. Skuld takes much longer due to “engaging” invuln phases, the enemies have more HP/hp scaling then old cem, and Skuld is now much more dangerous than any mid-level glands dungeon in the skull phase, while still dropping the same rewards (pots which you can get in much shorter, easier dungeons)
Nothing unique about the current battle either. More content people despise doing. Looking back, the old Shaitan fight wasn’t great, but I still hold my position that it was at least more enjoyable than the current one, if not for the amount of time wasted alone.
I discussed this in my above post, but nests are the only dungeons I see people consistently getting even close to the boss. Caverns people get bored or nexus, and I have never seen a public LH get to MBC. Again, Cult is more enjoyable in small groups, but the dungeon itself is incredibly boring and many people don’t want to bother with it when they can just sit in a discord and do it in a quarter of the time.
Yeah, that’s why I said “game design flaws”, not “dungeon design flaws”, although LH’s enemies are flawed in the fact that many rely on instant kills (golems) which makes the dungeon feel cheap and poorly designed, especially when you genuinely can’t even see the enemy.
I would argue that Nest and Caverns are also balanced around large groups, although I will admit that they are much more consistently ran then Halls in small groups.
Either way, they wanted unpopular opinions, so here I am I guess.
I had a beautiful samurai with an almost complete mt set (missing waki) and Sakura Waki with Crossing Fires as swapout. Sadly, he succumbed to the realm, but I had alot of fun with him and am looking forward to my next samurai
I like the game
(not my comment, however I felt like sharing)
Part of the problem comes from when a company like DECA starts thinking that the community, especially this community, knows best or should be in control of the the game content. 95% of the players are drooling idiots who have been spoiled by events and know shit all about what makes a game enjoyable or great, or what MADE RotMG such a great game back in 2012/13. DECA should have a fucking vision, which really isn’t that hard, and execute it, without being swayed by popular opinion all the time. This sort of thinking sinks games and businesses. But then take a look at a company like Valve - they’re fucking fantastic because they don’t give a rats ass about pandering and bending over backwards for 13 year olds. They’re confident in what they’re doing and it shows. DECA need to take a leaf out of their book.
Apart from the drooling rage-typing part, I agree with this general idea.
I can’t help but agree, except DECA does seem to have gotten a vision recently, if they keep true to their promises, they’re going to pick the anti-steamrolling side. Only then can RotMG truly become a good game.
It seems they are starting to add more depth to the game with the new features. It truly gives me hope.
@xaklor just finished reading a bunch of ur posts in here and found them very interesting.
as a followup question, at one point do you believe that realm became “unsaveable”. was it doomed from the start b/c of that irreconcilable mmo-permadeath relationship? or was there a moment (i.e. rise of discord raiding, non-stop events etc) that was a tipping point? just curious to hear your thoughts on this
Based on like 90% of Xaklor’s posts, I think this was it, but idk, I can’t speak for her.
@BaadGuy GMTK made a whole video about that if you want to see it
I’m not sure. I’m also not sure there was a clear-cut point of no return, I only believe that it’s been crossed already. I definitely wouldn’t say it was doomed to fail from the beginning, there was a point in time where the game structure aspect could have been addressed without much fuss. definitely before pets were a thing, and arguably for some time afterward too. similarly I believe the cutoff point for the game design fix is also a bit of a gray area, particularly because some aspects of the tonal clash only became exacerbated some time later on.
if I had to take a stab at it, I would say the introduction of the lost halls marked the tipping point for the game. not the point of no return, but the beginning of the downward trend. lost halls forced players to take up the raiding discord/key grind approach, and once players realized this could be applied to other dungeons en masse to boost efficiency then it was a bit of a slippery slope from there. LH 2.0 allegedly “fixed” the dungeon so it was possible outside of raiding discords, but the precedent for LH raiding had already been set. on top of that, in the many years since LH 2.0’s release, there has never been an attempt to dissuade players from continuing the discord key grind, making the 2.0 release a bit moot since it’s easier to stick with what works than switch to something both more difficult and less efficient.
ironically, despite the enormous hassle flame trolls and breadcrumbs were, I think I might actually say that the first LH was better from a cooperation standpoint. both versions of LH raiding focused mostly around following the group like a horde of mindless drones, but at least figuring out breadcrumb trails and flame guiding was some form of additional thought for the normal raiders.
iirc deca’s regular chest event habits had also cemented by that point, so there that’s been going on ever since.
you could also take a look at my play history for a rough idea, but I’d probably say the point of no return happened before then because I wasn’t actually having fun long up to that point.
I definitely agree with this because it’s the very reason deca’s cornered themselves with their chest events. their excuse has always been, and likely always will be: “player activity is higher during events than when there isn’t”. but while that may be true it’s still not healthy for the game, especially the more drastic the difference between event and non-event activity becomes. player feedback is great and all, but game developers need to have a vision and the spine to see that vision through or else they’ll rapidly loose control to an increasingly spoiled playerbase. setting some sort of middle ground while ensuring certain core directions are maintained would be ideal.
I know for a fact at least one person over there knows of the following quote:
Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game.
deca’s general handling of the playerbase doesn’t seem to acknowledge this though. one needs to be thinking long-term to avoid such pitfalls and deca almost universally seems to only think in the short-term.
I don’t know anything about the context, but it mostly sounds like he just has different wishes than the community. If 95% of people upvote the comment that complains about 95% of the community, something doesn’t add up.
I think the reason why we have so many events is because of the key selling profits, rather than because of the communities wishes.
Kind of agree on the LH 1.0 point. It was a total shit fiesta, but running those public runs in USE or wherever, before discords got set up, were so fucking fun. So many trolls, deaths, but insta-d MBCs, no vials, etc. But it was so much fun to see the group over like 20 runs eventually do a few cults, have one where they didn’t just vault the vial, and go to a void. I kind of like the feel of public (and I don’t mean pub LH public) dungeons, it’s almost as good as natural to me. But yeah I think also shatters is in a way the last “good” dungeon. It has problems, but its the last dungeon in he game where you don’t need discord to run and people actually go in after they kill the event boss. Also the last dungeon that doesn’t let you max life after running it twice (fucking remove life pots and mana pots from every dungeon except OT and Tomb, so people actually run those. No reason to be able to get the best tiered items, best UTs, max all your stats, and get fame from the same dungeon – makes it so there is literally no reason to do anything else).
to be fair life pot drop chances in lh are abysmal
I don’t think it matters at all. Tomb should be the best place to grind life pots, but LH is. Players get more life pots doing LH just because they get them incidentally, grinding for whites/T13s and fame. You literally never have to set foot in a tomb. Players that complained “LH is not rewarding” are players that should not be running LH, it is an endgame dungeon for endgame items. If you wanted life pots are T6 abilities you should be doing Oryx and Tomb!