Potion rates need to be raised with Vital Combat too, not just white bag drop rates


#1

Every dungeon below endgame is severely lacking in guaranteed pots, if you do the dungeon with more than 2 or 3 people, there aren’t any guaranteed pots, which can feel like a slap in the face as that’s essentially a 0 and can happen in the vast majority of dungeons, including things like Thicket and Tomb. Another example is clearing an entire dungeon on a fairly weak and slow character intended for the tier, like Abyss, and not finding a single TRoom, which is a tedious waste of effort, the TRooms don’t need to be exhorbitantly frequent, but having 1 guaranteed of every “common” TRoom, like Snake, UDL, Abyss, Pup, etc. would go a long ways to adding more QoL and respecting the player’s time in an envinroment with more common deaths and rebuilding; purposefully rare, special TRooms like Sewers can stay non-guaranteed.

The reason this is relevant with Vital Combat is that, simply put, remaxing will become much more common once death is a more relevant factor again, and so we’ll have to drink alot more pots, however, while the white bag drop rates are being raised to reflect these increased deaths, there’s no mention of this for pots, which will create a disconnect if not done too. Think about how many of the same dungeon you have to repeat sometimes given RNG, it really just is sloppy and anti-fun design for the most essential thing to progress, which you need hundreds of, to remain so luck based in the face of changes to the difficulty.


#2

I’d personally like to see the effects of Vital Combat before a change. I’m not disagreeing with the suggestion, but I’d rather this become a problem at first with a fix happen afterwards than straightway buffing the pot drops.

The reasoning behind this is that I’d first and foremost like to see just how much more everyone will be dying; are we going to adapt to this new system as the varied playerbase we are, or will it indeed become the massacre some prophecy to be?

Secondly, I’d love to see pots become more valuable again. The economy is really becoming bad, the worst I’ve seen it since I started, thanks to the increasing frequency of event poppers. I personally wouldn’t mind more Trooms and less pots, but that’s just wishful thinking. :sweat_smile:


#3

This seems to assume the post is primarily talking about popular popping endgame dungeons, however, it’s primarily talking about early and midgame, and secondarily, lategame dungeons, having several layers of needless RNG slapped on them to getting their desired pots in most cases, that’s all.

I recognize putting alot more pots in popular popping dungeons might not be needed, as there’s no guarantee yet that the steamrolling for these will stop with Vital Combat. Atleast not the implementation they had that could be bypassed in certain ways.


#4

I definitely agree that there should be some buffer time between VC implementation and pot drop rate changes; as you say, there are too many unknowns at this point.

I will say that there likely will be a bit of a massacre at the beginning while people adjust to the changes, and deaths will go down once people learn that they can’t face tank like before. This does further complicate balancing matters (I’m sure there will be countless posts in the first couple days about how hard the game has become, as there were in other situations where a part of the game was made harder), so accurate, informed drop rate rebalances could take a while.

And yeah, a functioning economy would be cool.


#5

I suppose I didn’t elaborate on that well, especially because you probably don’t know my play style, whoops!

Those lower dungeons were included in that mix. I‘m definitely aware of roughly how much people are harvesting from Discord runs (even though I never do them), but the key popping is at least just as bad as Discord running because… well, people don’t even need a Discord to run them, and repeatedly crashed the market.

As someone who frequently runs these lower dungeons in the Realms themselves and has somewhat limited available game time with no guild to mooch off of lol support any shortcomings of maxing, I still hold to what I say about waiting to buff pot rates just yet.

There’s so much I would want to put into one post about the pros and cons of buffing vs. keeping current drop rate system, including revolving keys, diversified players interests, some incoming DECA changes and some long term goals I suspect, about maxing itself (and yes, the current exaltation system… hmm…), and the controversy of keeping the game “simple,” but I don’t think anyone would actually read it all. So many arguments have flown around about it that I’ve kept quiet on, but tying it all into one, mega-sized picture is quite complicated. A seemingly harmless or positive change affects so many cogs in the works, it can be disastrous. And I know DECA is no stranger to both ends of that spectrum.


#6

Yeah, I’m still hosting this sort-of-not-quite NPE Discord, and a couple of us are doing fine, but there are people (especially those with good pets) that have died multiple times! The good old days when the sprite world could actually do significant damage etc. :joy:

It’s one thing to be an NPE in the midst of others under no such restrictions. It’s entirely another to support each other with equipment we find with no outside trading and minimal to no assistance from others with pets and fancy gear. If we were to go to a system like that again (which is never happening for obvious pet related reasons), I would be in full support of buffing pot drop rates.

As only one piece of this complicated puzzle, that is again why I want to see truly how adaptive the community is on 23rd going forward.

Edit: @Megayeah Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. I seriously doubt Vital Combat will stop steamrolling. It’ll probably just slow it down for a little until the worse players are weeded out or figure out how to play better. /:


#7

I doubt you’re ever going to get one without a more thorough overhaul of the loot system than just tweaking pot drop rates. rotmg has very few options to reward you with in general:

  • event tokens/items. only useful and/or available during their associated event. can’t be used for loot otherwise.
  • cosmetics. you can only make use of so many of them at a time, anything further just never gets used. dyes/cloths can be used for typical loot, but they can’t be guaranteed because then they’ll become completely useless. skins have to either be rare or unavailable as loot because one lasts your entire account. any extras aren’t useful.
  • equipment. can’t be made into common loot or else players will near-instantly lose any reason to continue playing. say what you like about how unfair the rare item drops are, fighting against that random chance is the reason most people play the game at all. take that away and there’s nothing left. obviously cannot be guaranteed.
  • pots. this is what’s left. enjoy.

this effect is exacerbated in rotmg’s current push for harder and harder content, because if you aren’t guaranteed something for all your effort then people will abandon the entire dungeon and just not run it because it’s not rewarding compared to the effort needed. but of the available options for loot rewards pots are the only ones that can be regularly guaranteed, so as long as this current state continues to exist the mega endgame raid machine will continue flooding the game with guaranteed pots because anything that doesn’t guarantee pots isn’t deemed rewarding enough to play.

plus deca’s terrified of releasing new tradeable items for reasons we all know about by now. that also isn’t helping matters.


#8

One way to think of this is: if you currently have a Divine pet it is going to be more like a Rare pet for some of the time. So, when your pet was Rare, lvl 50 say, did you find yourself using HP and MP pots a lot? Or was it more you took things a little more slowly/spent more time recovering?

I think for me it’s the latter. Doing Abysses today and thinking how I do with my Huntress, I can pretty much walk through it killing everything, taking a fair bit of damage which I can mostly shrug off. When my pet was not so OP I was much more cautious.

I used to e.g. like doing Abyss more with a Sorc. Range meant I could kill many things before they did any damage. The ability would weaken half a dozen of them so they could be one or two shotted. Now of course I can do it as fast as with my Huntress, spamming my ability to kill most things before I see them.

And we are not all getting our pets replaced with level 50 ones. They will still function out of combat as now, and we will gain double wis and vit effectiveness. It will play neither like now, nor like when your pet was half as powerful. IC/OOC is a totally new mechanic which is going to change how we all play.

So yes, wait and see how it goes first I think. We might need overall better HP/MP pot drop rates. But I think change is more likely to come on a per-dungeon, per-encounter basis. Some dungeons, especially newer ones made since pets, will perhaps need a rethink to account for IC/OOC.


#9

I don’t think pot tweaking will solve even many of our problems right now. It’s just one thing to look into right now.

I can’t say I ever care about these much, for more than one reason.

I don’t think it’s unfair :< (I know many do, though.)

As for the rest of that, some solid points offered indeed. Most I’ve agreed with. If there is one thing besides keys that I hate right now, it’s the power creep. So many tiered items are “useless” now, and the dungeons have gone crazy. I miss much about the old design when I was starting to play the game. Not because of the simplicity, per ce; I almost always like new content in games! But… the current system is an rng loot simulator for so many people right now. Many of the random people I used to play with in the Realms are gone because they like the conveniences of the “ease of life” that other outlets provide. ;.;

Even now, I kind of wished something even remotely like the Elder Realms would exist, because it’s about fighting challenging enemies that aren’t in some repeatable dungeon that can be popped repeatedly in a nexus, but I’m not sure how well the generally lazy, mentally slovenly playerbase would receive such a place with the meager rewards it would offer.

Upgrading your stats used to be more of a luxury; an optional thing to max, though preferable to improve. Heck, being 3/8 was nice! Why must everyone insist on being hyper efficient or bust? Why do so many people like the rewards rather than the journey? Actually, humans seem to think like that in many games I do… :sob:
We don’t need crazier dungeons with deadlier guns… we need better people who play the game like it’s supposed to. And because I’m feeling sadistic, I half wish the better part of those who do this game would vanish from existence somehow. :rage:


I could rant forever on this, but it would take some carefully implemented techniques on DECA’s end, as well as some unreasonable guts for a company to pull that off. At this point, I’m just trying to support what I see for guiding the game in a healthier direction, even if not nearly perfect. It’s not that I have any money investment to bind me down, and I could leave any moment I chose, but I do wish a healthy future. It has potential in my eyes still.

(Also, I’m so sorry that you’re getting the brunt of this. I’m just suddenly frustrated, and I know you hate the game already, so you seem to be the kind of person to be indifferent to any trash talk about it. It just feels good to get that off my chest for once. :cry:)


#10

I know this isn’t the " Give your shitty solutions to shitty problems" thread, but there’s a number of ways Realm could reward and incentivize players.

I personally think there should be a sort of cosmetic melt down. What I mean is if you get a skin you already have, you can go somewhere, say a place in your vault, to “melt” down that item into an exclusive currency for skins to use to “craft” a skin you already dont have, same with cloths. Or you could the obvious thing and make them tradeable again. Or do both, either one I feel like is a good option, both allow you the ability to unlock skins or get cloths.

A number of suggested features for making equipment overabundance have been said already. Literally just add a system where you can improve either the entire piece of equipment with duplicates, or select specific stats to improve. And you don’t even have to guarantee drops, just add percentage increments onto the base percentage drop rate and go on from there until the player receives the drop. From there you can return it back to the base value, making the cycle repeat. Same can be done with pots.

They could also also also for the love of gud, just unsoulbound shit, we’re so close to ditching flash and being purely unity focused, which means a good chunk of issues can finally be fixed. It doesn’t make any sense for the game to stagnate this bad when it comes to its economy.

even if these aren’t good solutions, DECA has to address the overall issues somewhat, and soonish. Or not, and suffer defiance’s stagnation and death.


#11

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