PT: Bard Class and Tiered Item Changes

#21

With these changes candy coated armor needs to be buffed, it’s been powercrept since the times of acropolis armor being the best heavy armor. It used to be gaining 6 def while losing 10 dex. Now however if you add these changes you will get to a point where it’s gaining 2 def while losing 10dex not a good trade off at all. This is even more obvious when back when candy coated was made pets weren’t rampant with lots of healing and there werent many options for def and hp so candy coated armor and exa hp ring together was probably the strongest defensive combo.

I don’t think it has to be buffed too much, it can just not lose as much dex or lose a different stat. I understand that the tiered heavy armor should be the one with a lot of def with no negatives so something else giving you more has to have a drawback but it’s going to be too high a drawback as it is.

#22

Hmm… with the introduction of the t15 leather armor, Nil would in turn need a change since it would be literally be outclassed due to the same amount of def, but with the tiered armor having the benefit. Not just that, but many other UTs will have to be updated in some way to reflect new tiered weapons/armors, since at this point it’d be always better to use them.

#23

I feel like candy coated armor could receive a massive vitality buff, similar to how the candy ring works. That could discern it a little bit, and maybe even add speed.

#24

The new endgame tops are a pretty good idea on paper, but come at the cost of rendering many items with unique niches, like Conducting Wand, Candy Coat, Armor of Nil and Celestial Blade obsolete, these items all need either to have endgame equivalents of them with the same niche but stronger introduced, in the case of the sub-endgame ones, or to be buffed, in the case of the endgame ones, so that build variety in endgame doesn’t become severely lowered, we need to get this through to DECA.

#25

I feel the bard class could have another niche, it just looks like the class you would play only if you had a T6 lute and the guild or a melee player needs it.

Maybe add a “all stat boost” to the T4-T6 lutes but this would exclude Hp and MP.
T4 can be +2 to the stats, T5 is +3, T6 is +4.

#26

l7uFrzx

rip void armor…

#27

Personally, I think it would be kinda cool if the bard offered a little bit of healing (both for itself and nearby players). Maybe the inspiration effect could be tweaked to not only offer bonus range, but maybe also bonus passive regeneration from vitality healing, or maybe it could just give a flat 10/20/30/40/50/60 healing depending on the tier. Nothing huge, but a little something to help it make up for having less defense than archer and huntress, as well as to make it a little bit more like other bards. Sure, the increased range might help it keep out of danger, but only lasting 3 seconds makes it a little bit hard to reliably use it for that purpose.

Perhaps, it would be better giving

T0: 1.05 x range
T1: 1.1 x range
T2: 1.15 x range
T3: 1.2 x range
T4: 1.25 x range
T5: 1.3 x range
T6: 1.35 x range
T7: 1.4 x range

And lasting 5 seconds instead of 3.

But I’m just a red star, so maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about.

Other Idea
Pretty offtopic, but I think huntress is too similar to archer, and I think it would be kind of cool if traps got wisdom modifiers with the huntress’s max stats tweaked a little bit towards more dexterity, speed, and wisdom, with less attack and vitality (Like maybe 60 dex and attack compared to 50 dex and 75 attack, with some small buffs to max speed and wisdom)

Might be an idea to try in play testing.

#28

wow the perfect opportunity to remove it from the nexus, let’s hope that happens

[Spoilers] T7 Abilities and LH Armor Buffs
#29

Also the perfect opportunity to add t13 weapons/t14 armors to the nexus shop :3

#30

They will definitely do this. There’s no way they won’t.

#31

That moment when they break ninja.

#32

I am not a huge fan of plastering +Stats on tiered abilities.

If it is an incentive to use those abilities then most of them were already default equips so you’re just boosting their stats which should be their base amount.
If Paladin gets +4 Dex from T6 Seal which they’ll be main using, why not just revert Paladin to having 50 Base Dex?
+Vit for Priest is not an incentive at all.
+Wis on Trickster makes no sense either.
+Spd for Sorc of all classes? They’re already Base 60 and it’ll be nothing more than a rushing tool.

The Ninja one actually seems like a valid boost since they’re running around so much that the vit would help and gives slight incentive to carry around along with your Armored and Berserk Abilities as a healing swapout.

The Samurai change just makes it the flat out best Waki and invalidates the rest outside of using the ST set.

I am in favor of large stat buffs like the Necro’s Skull or Ninja’s Star but these small addictions outside of smoothing the curve seem pointless and just fluff.

#33

image

and the perfect opportunity to make them not soulbound :flushed:

#34

But Fungal Breastplate already serves that role: Giving massive amounts of vit.
Instead, we could give candy coated something like 150% defense instead.

Edit:
For Paladin with 30 def, wearing this version of CC would give +45 DEF
For Knight with 52 def, wearing it would give +78 DEF…

Hmm, I guess it shouldn’t be as high as 150%, but try to understand the concept, at least xD

#35

Bode, have I got news for you!

#36

Here’s my feedback on Bard so far:

Mechanics:

  • The extra range of bard is quite a lot to say the least. It can basically turn melees into dagger classes, and I think it’s a bit too powerful. I’d suggest toning this down a bit, maybe instead of a 1.5x modifier it could be around 1.35x. That way you still get a good amount of range without making melees too powerful.

  • The range effect, although great on close-range classes, doesn’t really help too much on the ranged ones such as wand classes. (Which includes the bard themselves, funnily enough.) I’m thinking maybe you could make it so that the inspired effect lowers arc angles and amplitude, however that would leave wand classes out, not to mention mess up firing patterns for some weapons. Currently, I don’t know how you could make it benefit them all without it affecting DPS somehow, but if I come up with something I’ll be sure to post it.

  • The radius and duration of the effect are quite expensive for the mana cost. My sugguestion is to make lutes be able to be affected by WISMod, which could be used to make the radius and duration of the effects go up.

  • The range effect can throw some shot patterns off a bit such as colossus sword or esben staff (though, lets be honest, esben staff kinda just sucks), lowering amplitude with inspired as well could help, however I’m unsure how this would play out.

  • Similar to samurai, bard has decent stats all around and only one stat that’s the best of any of them. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing, but it just kind of feels a bit underwhelming. (I don’t think adding an extra 5 DEX in there would hurt all that much, would it? Like come on, it’s so close.) It’s not too important, but I’d rather have classes that excel in certain stats than a well rounded one. (I mean look at ninja, barely anyone plays it and it’s one of the most well rounded classes.)

Visuals:

  • The base sprite for this class is quite good! It’s definitely one of the best out of all the base skins, however I’d suggest maybe making the hat look more consistent for each direction, it would help a bit.

  • Lutes look great! However some of them have a slight error in the outline towards the right.

  • The particles are a nice touch, but I’d recommend changing a few things. First off, try to detach their movement from the player, it feels kinda weird like that. Second, have the projectiles come out at different speeds, I think it would look quite cool like that. Third, maybe remove the outline, I’m unsure how this would end up looking but the outline feels sort of weird on it. It could just be the shadow part of the outline is yellow though. I’d also consider lowering the resolution (and maybe amount of colors) of the particles a bit. Messing with opacity could also help, but either way I feel as if they draw too much attention at the moment.

  • Something else I’d like to see done is slightly different particles depending on what lute you have equipped. I think it would be a nice touch. Would be interesting to see how UT lutes would look with this.

Either way, good job on the new class! Fairly enjoyable, however I still feel as if it needs some tweaks here and there. I hope my feedback helped.

#37

Some feedback:

  • The Inspire buff shouldn’t increase projectile speed and only increase projectile range.
  • The higher tiered lutes should drop in a different bag, at the moment they drop in a pink bag.
  • The Inspire buff isn’t reapplied when using lutes whereas the Energized buff is.
  • Lutes should give the buffs in a bigger range, at the moment it buffs players in a 3 tile radius which is worse than a Warrior’s helmet (and that has problems of buffing groups too).
#39

oh noes i can’t play until friday…

#40

Yeah that sounds good vit or spd on cc just how it is rn isnt going to be good at all

#41

That is going to make things pretty weird, but if it didn’t improve range, there would be no reason for the bard to use lute solo