Giving classes w/ even more dps to players who don’t know how to survive a dungeon in the first place isn’t gonna change anything. Yeah, it sucks for solo play but on the other hand, doing small group runs (if the damage+berserk buffs get nerfed) where you only have a warr or a curse buff (1.2x damage multiplier), compared to a 1.728x multiplier (all enemies cursed, players damaging + berserk) w/ the new buff, isn’t that bad, where as what we have now is small groups (if they even have pally or warr) might have a 1.5 or 1.2, let’s say 1.4x multiplier (multiple classes have abilities that inflict curse)… and large groups will have ~2.7x damage. It’s just ridiculous.
PT: Classes balancing part 1, Gigantic Cave(Fungal Forest + Crystal Cave), LoD, LoS
Seelpit
#195
The point is the mere fact that Halls aren’t accessible without Discords.
Nerfing melees will definitely have some impact on public runs, certainly, but if Halls remain unchanged, then the problem is still there.
Nerfing Halls so that public runs can actually choose whether they wish to challenge the Colossus and Void, or go for Cultist, is what the main goal is.
Halls isn’t being balanced around Discords running them with gargantuan groups. It’s being balanced for players that run them in public groups.
Backpedal
#196
Giving classes w/ even more dps to players who don’t know how to survive a dungeon in the first place isn’t gonna change anything.
They aren’t giving out any buffs, they’re just taking away. If the current dps isn’t enough for realms to complete nests, halls, and shatters, there’s no way nerfs will help.
The point is the mere fact that Halls aren’t accessible without Discords .
Yes. You are correct.
This nerf does not change this issue at all and in fact just makes it worse.
Like I said before discords were willing to help newbies out -> The 1/8 rule for Pub Halls has been in place for months.
Having lower dps just lowers that margin of error and forces the discords to demand more melees, more 8/8s, and more player selection.
Rather than be inclusive, they will be exclusive.
Exclusive is bad for the game.
Halls isn’t being balanced around Discords running them with gargantuan groups. It’s being balanced for players that run them in public groups.
There are NO plans at the moment for any Halls reworks. It’s just theory crafting and Kiddforce is being cheeky.
If this change goes through public halls will just suffer and suffer for at least half a year.
Nerfs and Buffs should happen in response to a problem that is plaguing the general community.
The melee nerf doesn’t solve any problem at all.
It’s like a man cutting his nose to spite his face. In fact he actually need to just use some face moisturizer first.
Discords will hate it because it makes their runs harder. Regular players will hate it because it will now be harder to accomplish their goals without grouping up.
Again, come and talk about nerfs when they’ve actually addressed the issues of the shatters village (literally 75% of shatts fail at the start), the beework (nobody does realm nests), and the halls accessibility (even doing a cult from a sentry is a rare sight).
You said it yourself in the first comment.
By the gods! What an amazing amount of content
that somehow doesn’t include the Beework!
There are bigger fish to fry.
RMGnoob
#197
It’s not a DPS problem, it’s a coordination problem. If you made it so every dungeon could just be bruteforced with pure DPS and fucking up was impossible the game would be even easier.
By definition, forcing players to use a a 3rd-party site to do anything is exclusive in and of itself.
If they were playing solo on anything that’s not a melee, this update changes nothing for them.
To work on endgame dungeons, you need the base game to be solid, otherwise you’re just adding more shit on top of the shit pile. That’s what this kind of rebalance should strive to achieve.
And again: you’re just being stubborn because you can’t admit that you’re bad at playing melee. It’s been years, get a move on already.
Slicewound
#198
I used to believe that class balance in this game came through as “let’s make everything overpowered so that nothing’s underpowered.”
And bruh, was that not true with max legendary+ pets, glorification of Warrior and Paladin, as well as the neglect received by the Samurai, Ninja, and the more ability-reliant, low-DPS non-melees.
In the end, many people of this community will state how they want the game to change, but it’ll be up to Deca to actually implement the changes, picking and choosing what they deem better for the players, the game, and their income most of all. Don’t forget they have to take our munnies in the process of all this, too.
Many aspects of the game are indeed NOT working as intended, despite the copypaste messages posted in many people’s emails from Deca. Death is literally cheated every single day. Fame is exploited, and whether people want to believe it or not, cheaters have changed the definition of what being good at the game is, and what it isn’t. Cheating removes the entire point of this game by simply allowing you to avoid death on 95% of occasions. So of course people can walk around with tens of thousands of alive fame that should have been dead, full lost halls item sets, and the right to talk trash on every player that doesn’t have such “prestige” due to the fact that they haven’t played illegitimately to get their items. It doesn’t impress me anymore. It’s really damaging and makes other legit players like myself feel inferior or useless in-game, and I do NOT like that. Sure, it’s just a game, but you know what a game means to most skilled players. It’s more or less life. And I am NOT afraid to admit that realm is life to me.
Before someone gets the idea to tell me that cheaters don’t affect the game because they don’t directly affect you due to Realm not being a PvP game, that is gravely false. If someone is supporting you in any co-op situation game but doing so with a blatant advantage that is against the rules and/or against conduct, isn’t that pretty unbalanced? Also, if the person ever so happens to just be an absolute meanie that thinks they’re better than everyone because they can cheat and get away with it, that’d be very appalling. It is the reason I’ve left every major Realm discord server, because the “skilled” community is more or less what I explained above: highly toxic and self-centered. Not a good thing to be in a co-op game, is it?
Players who use exploits and cheat - those people being more numerous than ANYONE would like to admit - do play the game as intended in their own new, recreated definition that also spells the way of the game experience for everyone who does not. I’m not saying this is entirely the reason that new changes often get frowned upon when Deca, [as well as our hard-working dungeon designers and closed testers] do decide to do something for the game, but it’s a large, underrated reason that is very overlooked, due to how many players are actually illegitimate… and how many rules in Discords, r/rotmg, and various other places keep all topics about cheating from being posted to avoid drama. But I have to bring this under the light because it needs to be seen and has been ignored and accepted for far longer than it should have.
The character-based changes [VitMod/Debuff immunity, Pally instaheal removal, Def’s damage reduction cap across the game, and the nerf of Damaging and Berserk buffs] are obviously to encourage a better, more wholesome teamplay experience, and on top of that, it marks the beginning of changing your thoughts about the classes that you wish to play to truly become a choice of personal playstyle, rather than choosing a specific few because it’s a mandate to play buffers and high-damaging ranged classes in order to contribute to being able to make other players have a good time steamrolling dungeons. With some of the more popular dungeons being heavily reliant on the group’s total damage output within a certain time, I see why players would be angry at such changes, ESPECIALLY at first. In theory, they are indeed fairly questionable to think about, as the game I knew before is truly being changed with yet another set of major core mechanic reworks. But I thought of as to why they would be, and from that, it’s partly because the playerbase is taking this whole topic the wrong way, as if every said change is going to be slammed into the game right away upon the next patch or two. For the game to change, the people have to change, and that, when cheating is within the game, will take a VERY long time to truly allow the game to grow into what it can be from and for the better. I think Deca knows this. But this update will change the way the game was meant to be played, and will slowly reverse the damage that pets, cheaters, and exploiters have done. Though there is much complication, frustration, and resilience from the community as of now, these changes are making a better game for everyone who deserves it, those who want to play as a team to get somewhere within it, as it was first meant to be.
With the Unity port and more advanced security to the game’s code coming soon along, cheats will be nonexistent. But until then, we who play the game legit can only accept what Deca releases in terms of what they think is acceptable. The reason I do not disagree with all these potential changes, however, is while it may break the loop of what others found fun about the game, it breaks a loop in Realm for me, making it feel this much closer to being a game with a soul again! I’ll have to play the game differently than I usually do by playing other classes, trying new strategies in dungeon completion with or without friends, and much, much more to come later on. The title does say “Classes balancing PART 1,” right? Therefore, in those aspects as well as the new content [that I have not tested,] there’s obviously more to it.
Long story short, I’m genuinely excited about this update, though the reason I understand the community’s frustration is when I first looked at the topic, I felt the same way. I mostly did not take kindly to my favorite sword class potentially getting hammered back down to where it was in 2011/2013, but whatever has to change, I’ll let it change. I know how to look at the bigger picture too.
The General Chat Thread
Xaklor
#199
no, the problem is that the loop exists at all.
keys and hyper efficient dps-mobs plow through content far too quickly, to compensate for this drop rates have to be made low to avoid having loot given out too easily and too often. low drop rates combined with the massive dps disparity between giant mobs and casual groups make farming outside of the nexus key chains or discord groups completely ineffective. the result is players sitting in the nexus or a horrendously one-sided voice channel for hours or even days just to get a chance at anything worthwhile. further compounding the tedium is everything having full status immunity (except sometimes slow) makes your ability worth jack shit unless it either pumps up damage or prevents damage. and since HP scaling makes the difference an individual player makes irrelevant, the rest of their set becomes equally meaningless. so in addition to brain-crushing tedium of grinding for days on end, anything you might acquire no longer means anything anyway outside of solo or small group play. not that those two situations amount to much of anything since the abysmally low drop rates and extreme time-saving powers of giant hordes of players mean you’ll get through much less content with not much to show for it in those two scenarios.
to break the loop what I’d like to see happen is the following:
-
meaning given back to status-based abilities, allowing players to feel like they’re contributing and giving reasons to play those status-based classes over the dominant warrior/pally/wizard meta. this is on PT right now in the form of status immunity cooldown.
-
slashing the power of giant groups, making the difference between massive groups and smaller groups less noticeable which makes small group play more viable. this is also on PT right now in the form of the berserk/damaging nerfs
-
REDUCE HP SCALING, a lot of people are complaining that nerfing berserk and damaging will encourage more melee play in order to “keep up” with HP scaling, yet it does not occur to them that HP scaling can be reduced after this change since it becomes less necessary to prevent steamrolls once berserk and damaging are nerfed. reducing HP scaling in addition to making smaller groups viable once again gives back meaning to your equipment, since your friends will once again be able to notice whether or not you’re using a T3 sword or a T13 sword.
-
add “naturally dropped” drop tables to dungeons somehow, that increase the drop rates of items found in dungeons that are naturally spawned in the realm as opposed to keys. deleting keys entirely would make this simpler since you could just buff drop rates to something approximating reasonable without them around, but keys make deca money so they’re not going to budge on that. buffing the drop rates of natural dungeons without affecting the drop rates of key dungeons removes another incentive to stay stuck in discords and nexus key chains. it also makes smaller, casual groups even more viable since they’re more suited for this approach than giant mobs.
-
enforce stricter dungeon caps. I’m pretty sure the only ones who notice the difference between a group of 80 people and a group of 40 people are the servers and the player’s computers, mostly the servers. heck, things start getting out of hand at around 30 people. if too many people access a single dungeon portal at once, it should split them into multiple instances of the dungeon to avoid having too many people. this one might not be necessary at all if the other points are completed since some people will have another option outside of giant groups and won’t stick around. I’d prefer it this way, but the few that actually enjoy this horrific cycle might want to keep their original option intact I guess.
now, some of these steps cannot be completed unless something else is completed first. most notably, HP scaling cannot be taken out of the picture while the problem it was intended to fix is still in play (giant mob steamrolling). therefore, berserk and damaging have to go first. this is a multi-step process, which is why it says “Part 1” in the title. this isn’t a standalone change, there are other things hopefully coming along to compensate.
is this actually deca’s roadmap to the future? I can’t say for sure because they’re as bad at communicating with the testers are they are with you guys. but the first step in this is to nerf berserk and damaging, so they are on the right track.
Why weekend/chest events are a scam
Why weekend/chest events are a scam
Let's talk about the proposed Reworks
Backpedal
#200
Dude you haven’t even played melee in months.
| Sorcerer | 20 | 5/5 | 2 655 | 4 899 466 | 1 097 | 8/8 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Huntress | 20 | 5/5 | 5 605 | 10 800 424 | 405 | 8/8 |
Nice melees you’re using there.
Doesn’t even look like you’ve played the game in months.
You’re as fake as they come.
To work on endgame dungeons, you need the base game to be solid, otherwise you’re just adding more shit on top of the shit pile. That’s what this kind of rebalance should strive to achieve.
You know it’s funny that you bring this up. It’s almost as if they didn’t create dozens of dungeons with melee having 1.5 buffs.
slashing the power of giant groups, making the difference between massive groups and smaller groups less noticeable which makes small group play more viable. this is also on PT right now in the form of the berserk/damaging nerfs
No. The difference between the two groups is exactly the same. Both groups lose the same percentage of dps assuming both have the same buffs.
You’re just multiplying by a different number assuming both groups have access to the same buffs.
Let’s say a large group is 50 players and a small group is 10 players. Let’s say there’s one warrior in each group at least.
That’s like saying 1.2 x (50) - 1.2 x (10) does not equal 1.2 (50-10)
In fact, the group of ten might not have a warrior so the large group still has a difference.
If small groups benefit from the nerfs so much, tell me why small voids are done with warriors.
Tell me why BTEL does his MBC solo with a warrior.
Unless I’m missing something here, if the nerfs went through the current mbc solo time could never be beaten because mbc will still have his 0 hp scaling (he won’t heal with one player) and that player (who is most likely using a warrior) will deal less damage.
In fact as the game currently stands a carefully crafted and coordinated group can benefit more from the current buffs than a larger group. A group of 10 guildmates can fully utilizes their buffs as opposed to larger groups which might have bunch of useless people.
meaning given back to status-based abilities, allowing players to feel like they’re contributing and giving reasons to play those status-based classes over the dominant warrior/pally/wizard meta. this is on PT right now in the form of status immunity cooldown.
Wizard doesn’t status enemies. Wizard is used because it deals dmg.
Warrior doesn’t status enemies. Warrior is used because it buffs dmg.
Pally doesn’t status enemies. Pally is used because it buffs dmg.
no, the problem is that the loop exists at all.
The loop of keys can’t be closed. In fact they want to keep it as open as possible.
REDUCE HP SCALING, a lot of people are complaining that nerfing berserk and damaging will encourage more melee play in order to “keep up” with HP scaling
This could be a good idea.
I don’t have much faith in them to hp scale. Try doing a Halls with a small amount of people and you’ll see the minions are bullet sponges.
enforce stricter dungeon caps.
That’s probably the best way to resolve this issue. If they don’t want larger groups just say so and be done with it.
RayrTheII
#201
Not really sure how I died in this gigantic cave (sorry for the music, it’s not ocean man)
Novachiz
#202
Agreed. Additionally, for the most part the only dungeons that are filled up are event dungeons. Since these are once-per realm it makes sense that it should allow all or most players to enter. Its only fair.
But maybe popped keys should have a lower cap. Every dungeon except shatters, lh, and void
can be easily completed with less than 10-15 decently prepared players (meaning experience, stats and equips). The only reason why I can understand the cap being higher is if it is 50 to ensure that an entire guild can join.
Additionally, the glitch? bug? compromise? that if multiple people enter a portal at exactly the same time they can all enter regardless of if it would he full MUST be fixed. Whatever the cap for dungeons is, 120 is much higher. Yet thats what I see in many (most?) void runs. Deca needs to come up with a way to enforce the cap, even if it is slightly less fair to people who click enter at the same time.
Xaronas
#203
Very good idea! I hope deca implements this. Additionally, the key popper (and only him) could have the same drop rates as the “natural drop rates”
RMGnoob
#204
I would advise against comparing Realmeye pages, that’s not going to go well for you.
I thought all melees were bad, now Warrior is an OP class?
So what you’re saying is, the new update will make the difference between Discord groups and normal play less extreme?
That’s exactly what he’s saying: changing the way debuffs work makes classes other than those 3 more viable in endgame.
Jungix
#205
Assuming that I "threw my hands up and said “nope, reject” is untrue. I put a lot of thought into my response to this update. And while I like the new dungeon/reworks, the rest I do not like.
Seelpit
#206
Anyone else suffering from some really frequent and long lag spikes?
They’re definitely server-side, as far as I can tell.
RayrTheII
#210
Doesn’t seem like it. I dodged every shot for the last 30 seconds before that moment (other than that 150 shot that I took in the video)
RayrTheII
#211
Before I actually say my thoughts on the new cave dungeons, here’s what I have done:
- solo tested both pet and petless classes, although primarily with petless
- reached the boss of the fungal forest, although I haven’t actually killed it
- never reached the boss of the crystal cave
Some things I’ve noticed in the fungal forest:
- You can stasis every single enemy, including the boss!
- Stasising the head of some worms causes the body of said worm to not shoot bullets and not move, making it super easy to kill (including the boss!!!)
- Stasising the body of any worms does not keep the body segment still. They will be stasised yet move along with the head as if they weren’t stasised.
- There is a room that has a diagonal line of blue (water?). The water in general slows down your movement drastically, and there are many chasing enemies in this dungeon. I believe this room is simply too dangerous, since there are times when you have to cross this, allowing the enemy to catch up and shotgun you.
Some thoughts of the dungeon as a whole:
- The art style, especially the projectiles, seems completely out of place.
- As a person who mains without a pet, I found this dungeon especially tedious to clear. This is coming from a person who clears almost any dungeon that drops pots, including snake pits. I honestly don’t know why I think this pair of dungeons in particular is tedious to clear, since I find lost halls fun to clear.
- The combination of the time it takes to clear and its tedious nature is the reason why I haven’t tried too hard to actually complete the dungeon. I just didn’t have the motivation.
Thoughts about everything else:
- The reworked LOD and Shaitans are amazing, despite it being difficult enough for me to be unable to solo. I have absolutely 0 complaints about it (I like difficult dungeons).
- I agree with pretty much everything dys said about the class balances, and we both agreed outside the post that it would be better to rebalance all abilities with this in mind. For example, all shields including scutum should have the same stun immunity duration, so scutum is actually worth using.
Seelpit
#212
The EU one had the same problem, though to a lesser extent later last night.
I’ve got footage of it happening at the end of a petless LoD solo, causing the Wyvern to be stuck forever (like I posted in the LoD rework thread).
Seelpit
#213
Welp, testing’s closed.
At least we know this is coming for sure.
Edit: Rather than giving me the admin-only error, I apparently was denied access because Character class not available? I guess Samurai’s excluded from the Season of Pirate…