PT: Classes balancing part 1, Gigantic Cave(Fungal Forest + Crystal Cave), LoD, LoS

#61

That’s exactly what endgame should be more like.

#62

The overall nerf on Berserk and Damaging seems… interesting to say atleast, through they could’ve kept the self-buff Berserk/Damaging (Orbs, Memento) the same while nerfing the group buffs (Helms and Seals).

Through here’s the thing, Niegil leaked some information, including the nerf, through, at the end he also leaked some “trackloot” tag that has been applied to every boss, and we can assume this is some sort of pity timer, maybe. Let’s keep this as an example.

If it turns out to be a pity timer, the overall nerf (which affects steamrolling) and the 75% Defense makes way more sense, bosses actually take time to kill, and perhaps changes on how we play due to the new immunities. (tbh, i can see a knight going in to stun, people attack the boss for 3 seconds, then back out until the immunity is gone, then repeat). While giving guaranteed loot if you kill the boss enough times. That’s it, if trackloot turns out to be a pity timer system, otherwise… eh.

#63

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You can tp directly to boss in the Gigantic cave (Crystal Cave) using a planewalker or trickster. Definitely positive this is not the way it should be lol
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#64

Not sure if you skipped the next sentence but with teleportation disabled, anyone who rushes will have plenty of time to kill the bosses before the other players manage to clear all the way to boss.
Another problem i just thought about is leeching in the room before boss while the pink crystals are cleared. This is especially a problem for the crystal cave because the boss room is right next to the spawn room.

On a side note, i look forward to seeing how deca can tie this in with the lore of other endgame dungeons (if they dont ill be very disappointed :frowning: )

#66

well, not alone, no. but I didn’t say that was the only problem. HP scaling is also a huge issue. HP scaling was deemed necessary in the first place because of the tremendous power behind massive groups, which is being doubled (slightly more than that actually) by those two buffs. reducing the potency of those buffs reduces the power of mobs which makes HP scaling less necessary which means that you individually can a bigger difference. stricter and smaller player caps for dungeons would also help.

it does say “part 1” in the thread title, right?

idk why people keep bringing this up as a defense, because I don’t see how making them take longer is a problem when one of the biggest problems in the game right now is how quickly players make it through content.

speaking from experience I can say this is definitely isn’t the case. no matter what class I pick for an LH run (my most frequent pick is ninja, a leather class), if there’s an mseal I can spend most of the time facetanking attacks like everyone else. the stupid purple golems with their wavy shots hurt without mseal, but with it I (and everyone else around me) can basically ignore them. same goes for the marble defender, anyone with a pair of eyes can easily tell that when there’s an mseal in the group everyone just sits on him and ignores his damage, regardless of their own class. if there wasn’t one, you wouldn’t be able to get away with that so easily (another contributor to that same issue is how quickly the defender is defeated, which reduces the amount of shots you need to tank, meaning that nerfing berserk/damaging also helps here). let’s also not forget that even when you’re up against MBC, an actual boss, the group (again, many melees because they’re broken but lots of other non-melee classes too) spends several phases standing still if there’s an mseal. I don’t see how anyone can not see how this is ridiculous, and not class dependent.

that’s nice, but the players have it WAY too easy these days. they resist change because they’re so entrenched in how easy they have it. LH has been reduced to a joke for a very long time, and everything else without exception is a harmless loot simulator due to the horde of players that get thrown at the never-ending chest events. class rebalances are neat, but the “class” most in need of getting rebalanced is the unstoppable, hyper-efficient, game-killing, unenthralling player death mob, and I would really like to see them go away.

you say “this doesn’t fix classes this just hurts groups” I say “good that’s the point”.

#67

I have a feeling the biggest change is going to be a shift from the “buy a divine pet and make melee alts forever” meta to the “buy a divine pet and make rogue alts forever” meta. Especially if you keep remaking Shatters.

#68

This doesn’t say “maybe it’s the content, not the groups” for even a second to you? Not even one?

Probably because it’s valid. The issue isn’t the groups being too absolutely powerful, it’s the content not being challenging if you have a group larger than 10. Halls is definitely victim to this.

For enemies like the Golems, I can maybe understand, but… Marble Defender, something with really terrible HP Scaling and dies in 6 seconds, is the basis behind why Armored man bad? I’ve seen giant rubber bands that can’t stretch that much.

This would be valid if it weren’t literally advertised as a co-op game.

#69

Kewl but lame update.

#70

Everything can be paralyzed these days. I’m not even surprised, lmao.

#71

But it is mbc

#72

Void Entity can be paralyzed, too.

#73

But WHY is THE POINT

#74

BECAUSE BALANCE ;D

#75

Is it in notes?

#76

idk i was just memeing. probably unintended due to the fact they changed how it works in its entirety

#77

Ok cool making sure it want in port and i was just complaining xd

#78

no, because what you’re suggesting with this:

is not possible. seriously, anything you can come up with that’s powerful enough to break through player groups that large with all of those buffs is almost definitely going to be unfair. try it, it won’t work.

if you had read what I put in there you’d notice I also said MBC if fought mostly standing still with mseal. MBC is a major boss and far from irrelevant.

also the defender’s HP scaling is the same as everything else. you just think it’s weak because it doesn’t move, and with an mseal the players don’t have to move either. this allows the group to unleash their absurd dps without ever missing a shot.

@Ecookied (I saw that before you deleted it) all full status immunities have been disabled for PT to test the new status cooldown. it would be a huge pain to hunt through all of the XML files and individually appraise every single enemy and decide if it can keep its immunity or not, it’s much simpler to just disable immunities across the board for testing purposes. you don’t need to worry about MBC and Void being vulnerable to things they probably shouldn’t be.

#79

I’ve literally seen people instakill the Defender one day and seen it take around a full minute another, both in the same Halls server, but go off.

#80

That part of the update is actually going in the right direction. Having bosses that are immune to everything is another reason why the DPS Ball of Death is so prevalent.

Void Blade Ninjas maybe?

I’m not sure Defender needs fixing. As long as it prevents rushers from fucking up MBC for everyone else, it’s doing its job.

You could do what the Tomb did and reward precision and coordination, but then we’re back to public runs getting ruined and the dungeon becoming Discord-only p2win shit.

#81

Nah. HP Scaling sometimes just doesn’t at all work on Marble Defender. If you don’t activate it, and everyone runs in, then it’s not scaled for enough time to make it extremely easy, and with the right group, able to be instakilled.

(To clarify, instakills are pretty uncommon, but abusing the lack of HP Scaling is. It reduces the duration of the fight to like, 10%, which is enough to make ranking damage optimal due to the short nature of it.)