PT: Classes balancing part 1, Gigantic Cave(Fungal Forest + Crystal Cave), LoD, LoS


#122

The amount of what? Either you’re proposing the same change Deca is already making or your sentence makes no sense.

Might be interesting, force a more glass cannon approach instead of “here, have perfect defense and offense rolled into one class”.

Yeah, I don’t know if I agree with completely removing the direct heal on Seals. Pre-rebalance Pally (back when Seal only gave regen boost+Damaging) was the one class in the game that you had to put the least amount of thought into when using its Ability. You could have easily played with a script that automatically pressed spacebar every few seconds with zero drawbacks.

Going back to that would make tiered Seals boring again.

If we get rid of complete Stun immunity to have Stun timers and conditional immunity, then Knight can compete with other melees purely by virtue of having an easier time dealing damage rather than relying on hit-and-run tactics with buff stacking.

I don’t think that’s the best approach. For example if you make it so it’s impossible to be permanently under Healing (the regen boost), then you’re making Pets even better than they already are.

I don’t know that you really need those timers when you could adjust CD on the items giving these buffs and reach the same goal, especially for effects like Armored which are pretty rare and will likely stay that way.


#123

Having the HP Boost give HP through Sick is the issue I had. Otherwise, it wasn’t too bad, even if it’s a bootleg Tome.

Knight having lower damage but much higher chances of survival is very fair, at least to me. You trade off your damage to survive longer.

Not true. If you have more than one Warrior, you can still permanently Berserk, and same with Paladin/Damaging. I will say that

holds at least some weight, but pets are a major issue all on their own and should be addressed differently. Besides, it’s only for a couple of seconds; it’s not at all like you’re without Healing for extremely long.

Oh, and the “amount” listed for Berserk was me just being dumb and not saying the duration.


#124

how these nerfs will affect solo play

Most of the classes do not benefit from berserk or damaging while soloing, the ones that do (deca said that mystic will not get nerfed from the changes) are warrior and pally who are already 2 of the most powerful in solo (and not only) gameplay.

For the def cap reduction you might notice you get more damage (the more the def the bigger the difference) but you will also do more (the weaker the weapon the more will benefit from this change). Personally i like this idea, but with a good pet it will not matter too much anyway


#125
  • Damaging/Berserk and Defense cap nerf: I’d say this is the correct path to take, through going from 1.5x to 1.2x might be a bit too harsh, it’s fine because the sheer DPS increase a group would get from Damaging and Berserk was too much, and made most content trivial if both classes were present (other than pets), about the Defense nerf… i guess this is a overall nerf to every class, especially Knight, through it balances out with the new vitMod, which is interesting to say atleast.
    About people saying that other classes are affected by the Damaging and Berserk nerfs, this isn’t mostly true, since only Mystics and Necromancers have access to these buffs while the rest don’t have access to these buffs at all, i mean, i don’t see any problem with other classes not having abilities that grant these buffs balance-wise.

  • Gigantic Cave: I must say this is quite interesting, i love the aesthetic from both dungeons, despite the fact that some enemies clearly have placeholder sprites, the whole mechanic on how to progress is quite cool, and i’m a fan of the blob/slimes mechanics in the Crystal Cave.
    Through i’d suggest to not have the Drill in Crystal Cave right at the spawn, people will simply leech while everyone else destroy the purple crystals, creating the same situation as Tombs.

  • Lair of Draconis: This feels like a totally different dungeon honestly, i love the new tiles, Limoz’ rocks actually meaning something in Pyyr, the Ivory Wyvern actually looks like a wyvern now, really cool, through it might be strange to get used to the new Wyvern sprite since we were used to the white spaghetti noodle with green beard Ivory, but it’s just matter of time.

  • Lair of Shaitan: The only thing i see different is the magma slowly disappearing, unlike before where it disappeared instantly (caught me off-guard on the last PT), and Shaitan’s last phase, atleast now it’s soloable like the rest of the Court Dungeons, through it’s still the most difficult Court Boss (minus Thicket, because it has 3 bosses), i hope the loot is way better on release, i won’t do that dungeon for some tinctures.


#126

Maybe a little off-topic, but I want to touch on this for a bit.

I strongly disagree with this. In my opinion, this is one of the best UTs out there - not necessarily the best Waki, no, but it perfectly fits its role as a UT: it trades in quite some damage for a very long Slow (tied for the longest in the game, iirc!). There’s nothing bad about it, why buff it?

Fair. Its uses are quite limited, so a slight buff might be in place.

Disagree with the former, partially agree with the latter.
The Medusozoan is a great poison for stationary enemies, being more effective than a standard poison.
Plague is a different story. From my experience with it, its uses were rather limited. Perhaps giving it a special effect on hit might be interesting? It would definitely like something, at least.

…I’m guessing you don’t play Sorcerer a lot.

This really convinces me that you haven’t used these items enough, or maybe even at all. Shadows is an extremely powerful Quiver, even if you need to be quite close to bring out its full potential. Even at a medium range, its damage is just too good to pass up.

Piercing is pretty mundane on a Star. I honestly don’t really know what to do to fix it - maybe more shots, to better fit into a clear-everything-in-a-radius niche? That’d be pretty nice.

I disagree. As it was, it became more-or-less useless when you had a Paladin with you. Sure, Rogues like to stay away from groups, but even then, you’ll much rather dip in for a longer boost without being Slowed.

The 25 ATT change was a groupside buff, and a soloside nerf, so I can get why you’d rather want it reverted when thinking about Rogue like that, but I personally think that that’d possibly be a bit too powerful on a Rogue, even if you trade in being Slowed for the entire Damaging duration.


#127

Is it just me, or are the testing servers like, super bad right now?


#128

This may have already been reported but I havent yet seen it, paladin hp buff is still healing on testing right now, healing through sick too in fact.


#129

US seems to be bad, too bad people are too dumb to switch to EU, which is empty and fine.


#130

Really. I’ll try that once my 10 minute DC from testing is up.


#131

Alrighty let’s start -
LoD rework - harder than shatters bosses with a final boss that makes queen bee look easy, if that was your intention - nailed it.
Other reworks - can’t really tell lagging way too hard right now, as far as I could see of the 2 caves, shot density is absurdly high, hits hard and those shards don’t shoot where they’re indicating. And I guess Rock Dragon was changed, it’s nice and thematic to speed up as he shrinks,confuse is finally gone, thank you very much, so well done on him. (can his breath still one-shot robe and cloth classes? lag immunity makes it hard to tell)
Balance changes - You just made an even stronger case to play warrior by nuking all dps, to keep up with hp scaling - use the best damage class, you want to hurt specific classes? target their gear not the entire game as a whole, I know it’s the cheap and easy option to nerf a mechanic instead of specific items but just please don’t, I don’t care if it extends the update a year. Def changes - again, target the gear, not the entire game.
Immunities - is this even active on the test server? I’ve sat being perma-weaked,sicked,pet stasised, etc. then on enemies I’ve perma-stunned, perma-paralyzed various enemies so I’m very confused about this. So this next part is my thoughts on the concept since I wasn’t able to see it - Be insanely careful with this - it is a fundamental aspect of the game, I’d like to assume you’re only targeting it at specific aspects, because perma-anything is only abusable in very niche situations, target those niche situations, E.G I still say making lab para immune was a bad design choice, maybe tone that back so it’s not fully immune but it has this… semi-immunity? system. If all this change did was take some currently immune enemies and gave them semi-immunity to those specific things, then - all of my Yes. don’t go further than that. O2’s already a high risk low reward don’t make it worse by giving him stun immunity
Player based immunities - Mostly agree except with movement effects, slow/paralyze/petrify, but mostly confuse, being hit by confuse trying to react with confuse controls to then realise you’re confuse immune - ironically would be insanely confusing, not to mention it doesn’t affect the confuse control cheaters. Similar reasoning for other movement abilities, being immune isn’t easy to track and can very easily throw you off when dodging/reacting to shots.
Edit: Forgot Shaitan - it’s a nice rework, I don’t know for certain the hands had to be killed at the same time but I did it anyway, good work.


#132

But the other classes can have these statuses present, though. Also, from every pally or warrior I’ve seen, 1/500 self-buff.


#133

ffs why don’t they just buff tomes for priest, like make them give the user damaging on use :confused:

the nerfs to defense is dumb like everyone else has said.

both dungeons appear to be bizarrely hard, seeing as you can only either solo or duo them.


#134

Good to see that Silex and Kiddforce are still huge idiots.

It’s amazing that fools like Kiddforce seek to make dungeons harder and harder when the general ROTMG population outside of a discord CANNOT SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETE A SHATTERS VILLAGE.

You guys just don’t get it.

The game is a farming game. A farming game.

If the white drop chances were higher I could see the justification for making the game harder, but that’s not the case.

Right now as we speak people are mindlessly farming Tombs and Mountains. The drop rates from the chest are not great at all.

So, you need to do >>hundreds<< of tombs to get the coveted orange or white bag bag you desire.

Thus, to break even on an event you need to SURVIVE hundreds of dungeons. Otherwise events are a net loss. This is the simple truth.

The exact same thing can be said about all aspects of the game. Let’s look at Lost Halls.

To be brutally honest Halls would already be a complete waste of time if it did not award decent fame. The drop rate for t14s is so low I’ve only seen one and I have run over one hundred voids. The drop rate for whites is not much better either.

To ‘deck’ your character out with Halls whites you need to be able to grind hundreds of Halls.

Thus, there is a delicate balance in rotmg. The nest is evidence of what happens when that balance is broken. Dungeons need to be hard but they NEED to be farmable.

Your attempt to nerf beserk and damaging is a clear attempt to undermine the discord farmers.

The farmers are essential. They allow new players to bloom and grow to attempt newer dungeons in a safer environment with more experienced players.

The farmers are your source of income. They buy the keys to open dungeons over and over.

The farmers are the essentially the sole source of event prizes. Like I said before, you will need to do hundreds of tombs to get the orange bags. This is literally impossible to accomplish in a weekend without using keys.

As a final comment, I’ve already said many times melees are the worst classes in rotmg and I don’t care if they do extra damage. If Oryx 2 hits them they’re dead while the priest standing at 9 is perfectly safe. There are just so many bosses (including dirty tombs) where melee genuinely struggle I really don’t see the point to nerfing them at all. Being close to several bosses just has a far greater risk of being one hit ko’d. I had a HUGE discussion about this before and I don’t want to repeat myself.

TLDR - Come talk to me about nerfs when drop rates are good (and you don’t need to do THOUSANDS of dungeons to get a set), when people can actually go into a realm nest and complete it, when people can actually go into an avatar shatters and complete it, and when people can actually go into a sentry halls and complete it. This nerf aims to strike at discord servers and severely hurts the uncoordinated solo players.


#135

I see this game with lots of potential - what I don’t see right now is that potential being maximized.


#136

There’s so much that could be done to make the game very, very fun like it used to be. However… they’re not being capitalized on, in the slightest.

DECA’s priorities are askew. The best content that has come out under DECA has been from the UGC… EXCEPT for the things that DECA influenced, i.e. the Archer ST skin, if I’m recalling correctly.

They’re certainly better than Kabam, but it still feels like they don’t truly care about the game, just how much they earn in the end. And from what I’ve heard, the people who play the other games they own also have an issue with DECA.


#137

Deca and Kabam have one major difference: Kabam neglected the game to the point of it dying. Deca is updating the game so much, that they’re slowly veering off course.

Even the new dungeons, I don’t see as a positive point, because one day, there will be so many dungeons that there will be no more Ideas anymore. No more creativity will be shared on the forums or anywhere

And then, once nothing else can be created, one of 4 major things will happen:
1.) Deca will start making the same, boring content. In this scenario, the game will die.
2.) Deca will abandon development, leaving it to rot, the wasted potential rotting with it. In this scenario, the game will die.
3.) Deca will sell the game to a new company. The new company cannot do anything, because Deca has already implemented everything. The new company will either try their best to keep the game alive, or they will let it die. In this scenario, the game will die.
4.) Deca will continue to rework and rewire the game throughout the coming years and if they do truly care about the game, they will try their hardest to keep the game alive. Of course they can add new dungeons, items and such. In this scenario, the game will die.

Sadly, in all scenarios, the game will eventually die, just like every game ever created. If they care about this game, they will pick option 4.

It depends on whether or not they care about this game.


#138

I believe that this is the best case scenario, actually, under one alteration… rather than it going to a company, it would do far better under a team of individuals much like WildShadow, but with the skills to make it financially as well.

Think about it. This game was at its best in its early years, before there was worry about it being a source of income, and when it was simply more of a passion. WildShadow didn’t make these extreme ways to make money, they made the game for the people who played. They didn’t even expect it to live so long, but it withstood the tests of time even in its darkest days.

There are plenty of people already doing a lot for this game. Perhaps they’re the ones that DECA should be turning both eyes to, rather than simply keeping one eye on them and another on their profit margins.


#139

So the TL;DR is:
Enemies have a 3x multiplier for status effects (3s stun = 9s immunity)
Players have a .5x multiplier for status effects (3s stun = 1.5s immunity)

This is by far one of the worst changes I’ve ever seen in the entire game. 1.5s of immunity at 75 VITALITY? Almost as useless as oreo, which only has 1.2s of max invulnerability.


#140

It should be noted that the enemy invulnerability only applies to enemies who were previously entirely invulnerable, with only a few exceptions.

old enemies you were able to permastun will still be able to be permastunned, with only a few exceptions i found (that being realm event bosses like sphinx or hermit).

So thats just a flat buff to players

Also should be noted that that immunity time is on top of the original debuff, so if you get stunned for 3 seconds you cannot be stunned again for 4.5 seconds total, its not only preventing chain cc but also giving you a brief window of safety afterwards based on vit.


#141

I see. But the new statistics are then:
Enemies have a 3x multiplier for status effects (3s stun = 12s immunity)
Players have a .5x multiplier for status effects (3s stun = 4.5s immunity)
Right? That just makes it slightly better.