PT: Classes balancing part 1, Gigantic Cave(Fungal Forest + Crystal Cave), LoD, LoS

#143

Oreo has 1.8 at 75 Wis. HUGE difference.

/s

#144

Oh, sorry.

#145

Btw

the gigantic centipede boss portions can be paralyzed, what the fuck?

multiple boss and enemies (1-2 mushroom people and black spiders) have telekinesis and shoot exactly where you are, regardless of whether you’re cloaked or not.

enemies also do way too much damage, honestly why. makes it really not fun to rush or clear (why would you anyway).

sprites for all the monsters are nice though, and the behaviors for the centipede enemies is a very neat feature (but seriously, make them not paralyze able, or if you’re gonna make them paralyze able, then make It where the entire body freezes instead of the 1 piece that was paralyzed).

#146

Anyone else getting unplayable blacktiles? I always either get 10 minute dc or when i join a dungeon it will have black tiles anywhere outside of what you can see from spawn

#147

Sorry I actually just went and tested again, looks like the debuff time + immunity time is only for players.

So the immunity timeframes are more like

Enemies: Status effect * 3 (3 sec stun = 9 sec immunity)
Players: Status effect*1.5 (3 sec stun =4.5 sec immunity)

at 75 vit of course

#148

@Sileeeeex

Would you consider adding various UTs or STs to the store so they can be tested for how the status effect rework affects their use?

For example, I am currently extremely interested in how the Orb of Aether will be used if these changes go live. Currently they can provide a small radius of paralyze lock, with these new changes they may only be able to paralyze enemies once or twice per use, and that assumes they don’t just move out of the effect range after the first time and a rare white bag with a cooldown only has an effect time of about 1 second or something per use. It seems like the orb is at risk of becoming almost completely useless compared to now, or it might not be as bad as I think with providing 1 sec or whatever of relief from any enemy, but there’s really no way to know how these things will change without ways to test them first.

If this is something you’d consider I could come up with a list of a few other things I’d like to look at more on testing, for example applying something like armor break to an invulnerable foe now canceling out the ability for that to be applied later when it’s not invulnerable, which could be used for trolling- would there be any consideration to making some debuffs like that not able to be applied to invulnerable enemies so the cooldown doesn’t get messed up?

#149

Orb will still work correctly against the majority of enemies in the game, but yeah it will probablty be real weird on the bosses with these immunities. I have an aether on testing so I can record a video if you want.

Personally im interested in bloody cloak, as chaining it back to back could result in you ignoring the slow every other cast.

Additionally armor break and the like are not affected by the immunity changes as far as I can tell, I dont have an ogmur on testing but as far as I can tell the only debuffs that are affected are Slow Paralyze Stun and Daze.

Edit:
Orb of aether gif: https://gfycat.com/daringhappyapatosaur

I feel every time this stuff is mentioned I need to clarify since a bunch of people seem to not know, these immunity timeframes are mostly only in effect on enemies that were previously fully immune. Things you used to be able to permatrap in this orb you will still be able to in the future.

#150

Orb of Aether spam newest trolling technique???

/s

#151

Nice, thank you, that helps a lot. Would be nice to get a full list so we know exactly how it works, but that makes sense. Bloody cloak does seem interesting, wonder how many other things like that I could find reading through the wiki tomorrow.

#152

Do you really think that’s a new thing? The game has been a MMO with permadeath from the very beginning. If that hasn’t stopped people from playing this game for almost a decade, what makes you think it’s going to stop them now?

It’s a clear attempt to undermine a certain way to farm, yes, but what makes you think the farmers won’t be able to adapt? This isn’t a game where you can only play one character built one way and and you can’t try anything else without restarting the entire account.

So then nerfing them won’t fuck farmers over, since they have much better classes to play?

They don’t have to keep making new dungeons. For one thing, they could rework old ones, but they don’t even have to do that to have new content. They can just keep working on the projects that were already announced like the Dungeon Run thing that will replace the Arena or the seasonal challenge servers.

You can’t run servers on pixie dust and good wishes. You can’t pay developers with warm feelings and rainbows. If you want your MMO to keep going and be updated regularly, you need a stable revenue stream. At some point, money has to come from somewhere.

If you want to come back to the era of passionate nerds making games while all the bean-counters and execs were busy fucking up other industries, that means no more free-to-play and no more permanently online games. I’d be fine with it, would you?

#153

Uh…

#154

Again, what do you think those skills entail, exactly?

#155

Basic knowledge of monetary exchanges and how to make a profit without exploitation and/or ruining the game.

cough constant chest events

#156

If this applies to enemies as well, this is a soft buff to the more ranged classes as well. I don’t know if this has been clarified yet

#157

I’d ignore backpedal btw. He’s the guy who thought lost halls weren’t good for farming.

#158

Simple: you make your game based on another, already existing game with a massive player base (PoE with Diablo, LoL with Warcraft 3, etc…). In other words, something that wouldn’t work with RotMG and makes originality basically impossible.

Now he’s the guy defending LH hardcore farming? Seems like this man is very confused.

#159

I’m really not a big fan of a few of these changes. Nerfing Berserk and Damaging to 1.2 is almost enough to the point they’re not worth using. The warrior ability is still useful because of Speedy, and I’m not too bothered by Berserk being less useful, but pally is just getting all around shit on in very weird ways, especially getting rid of maxHP buff healing. The fact that pally could heal through Sick was a really unique interaction that fit really well with the theme of some holy warrior, and it made me want to play pally more. Taking it away entirely makes him both less useful and less interesting, and I’d rather it still be present, even if it’s nerfed (for example, give half the HP from before, rather than the full buff).

Immunity duration being tied to duration effect for monsters is completely stupid. This punishes use of high tier items. What’s the point of using a T6 shield if I know it’s just going to make a boss stun immune for the next 9 seconds? I’d rather grab my trusty T1 shield and time my stuns better, since that wastes less mana and I can stun more often. And the poor Scutum is going to be completely useless now. Shouldn’t the relationship be the opposite direction? Larger duration effects (i.e. higher tier items) should have the shortest immunity following their use, not the other way around, otherwise we’re going to have a bunch of people running around with T1 swapouts and other nonsense. Granted, there are a few times a low tier item (like prism) is worth carrying, but unless we’re adding a few inventory slots to the next update as well, inventories are already cluttered enough.

I also am not a fan of the way Vit is being used for immunity here either. There are very few instances where I find this implementation useful or interesting because immunity kicks in only after you’ve been hit with the full status effect. 90% of the time, there is going to be no difference in play at all. It would make much more sense to me if there was no immunity, just a shorter duration for status effects based on vitality. The way this has been written up makes it seem like it is trying to fix the singular problem of people being chain paralyzed or confused. The other things here is that it is sort of destroying Pet Stasis as a debuff, which could be good or bad depending on your view of things. Thicket 3rd boss is barely going to need dodging anymore with a rare or above pet.

I’m not sure how I feel about bosses no longer being immune to effects. Why wouldn’t they be immune to some things? I’m a bit confused with this change just because it seems to be trying to fix a problem that doesn’t exist.

The one thing I can say with this testing is I love new content. The Gigantic Cave has a nice theme and looks fun. Have we heard anything about where the dungeon drops, or did I just miss that? The LOD and Shaitans reworks especially look much more interesting than they have been.

#160

Knight becomes a bland tank class with nothing interesting if the boss is Stun Immune.
Or you can Slow it if you have a Flowing Clarity, but approximately half the classes can do that as well.
Archer also loses its Paralyze niche when the boss is Immune.

I personally think that temporary immunities will allow for more dynamic gameplay, as more classes will be viable against bosses and interact with them in new ways.

#161

All Shields have the same Stun duration though. That’s why people who don’t have Divine pets sometimes keep a T1 for chainstunning.

Under the new system, using a T1 would be a strict downgrade: same Stun duration, same immune time, only less damage and harder to aim.

Tomb Scarabs, Tomb Turrets, Wood Lab Turrets, Trench Ponies, Cdepths, …

It’s not here to make maxed characters immune to status effects completely, it’s here to give you a grace period and avoid situations where you just get combo’d to death.

Good point. Might also need tweaking in Sewers or else the whole permaSick gimmick stops being relevant.

As Seel said, it’s a problem because then endgame bosses become really boring for certain classes.

Endgame should be the ultimate test of skill for everybody, not a dungeon you have to do on autopilot because your abilities don’t do shit to anything in there.

#162

The rock centipede fight was intense and amazing, and I appreciate the counterplay available with mystic. It does trivialise the fight to an extent, as I was able to duo it first time with a rogue (I’m an awful mystic), however I can see this was an intentional design choice as the boss becomes immune at certain points. Maybe the stasis immunity wasn’t properly activating for the full duration. Either way, some of the most fun I’ve had in realm. Well done.

Just my two cents on the melees, although this seems to have been said: the level of attachment people have to keeping these classes above the power curve of the game - ‘barely worth picking over other classes’ - hints at this weird notion that warrior and pally SHOULD be significantly more worth picking than any other class. This undermines the idea of class balance - no class should be superior in a majority of situations - and Deca definitely seems to be leaning in this direction, for example with the aforementioned mystic counterplay.

People seem to be upset that warrior and pally might no longer be the best classes, which is understandable but also probably necessary. That being said, it’s a numbers game : Rotmg isn’t as complex as a game with delicate balance like LoL for example, and if 1.5x is too much, and 1.2x turns out to be too little, then it’s up to Deca to find a happy middle ground, which I trust they will.

Keep in mind that Deca is trying out these things for a reason, they don’t just pull numbers out of thin air, even if the way these changes are listed suggest that. Maybe some flavour text with updates, explaining the change would help alleviate these doubts.