PT: Crystal Cavern

#12

First part of my post is just about the dungeon not including the boss fight

The mobs in the dungeon are awesome, i really enjoy the theme of colored crystals and every enemy feels unique. The only mob i have problems with are the slime lookin guys, they really don’t do anything, the only dangerous ones are the yellow as they paralyze. The other slimes are very slow, only shoot one to two shots, and are basically just speed bumps. Another issue i have is that this dungeon may be too rush-able due to the lack of status effects, big discords are just going to clear to the boss then have a rogue or two go clear the crystals, hell i was almost able to rush it on a trickster (havent tried on rogue so im unsure of the enemies “afk” attack pattern, so this could be a non-issue).

The boss seems cool… except for the instant confuse guy. That is bullshit, I would be fine with confusing projectiles, but an instant AOE confuse during a VERY bullet heavy phase is just stupid. Its not even a matter of knowing your confuse controls, which I am very comfortable with, its the fact that he instantly jumps on you meaning you have to switch to confuse controls as fast as possible or be shotgunned/put in a compromising position. It doesn’t help that to dodge the bullets from the middle you have to have very precise movements.

Havent touched the ut’s, maybe ill update this post as I keep playing.

Edits: Finished a solo run on a rogue, rushing the dungeon felt very easy. Very few enemies have afk attack patterns, and often i was able to avoid the quiet easily by slipping around a wall. Even when i did get quieted, not many enemies have aggressive attack patterns so i was able to just wait and re-cloak.

Now onto the meat, the bosses( of which i think i have encountered all of them). Yes I was playing a rogue, but was trying to cloak as little as possible to feel the fights out. I also ended up not cloaking at all for the crystal core itself and the teleporting boss. For most of the bosses cloaking actually did nothing as they would dissapear.

  • Lets start with the scorpion spawner, this is by far the worst fight in the entire fucking game and im not exaggerating. He was the first boss spawned for me and honestly i thought about giving up and trying to get a different boss because he is so fucking tedious. His scorpions death explosions also absolute bullshit, these guys are running away from you the entire time which is tedious in itself but then when one dies its death explosion does probably more than 5,000 damage (not exaggerated) meaning you have to back up and restart your chase. The boss itself also shares the scorpions death explosions as its shotgun, so it was impossible for me to get close to him, ALSO in his first phase, >50% hp, he only came out of invulnerability for 2 seconds at a time maximum then dissapeared and spawned those fucking scorpions. I HAD TO DO THE MINION PHASE 7 TIMES, and you have to kill 5-10 minions each time to advance(wasn’t counting). Also there’s some red orbs in the last 50% that don’t do anything, i’m sure they are placeholders for something but they just float around rn.

  • My second least favorite is the armor break confuse sick guy, yes he does all of those status effects INSTANTLY as he jumps ontop of you with 500 speed(again not exaggerated). I had to cloak through this guy as I was not able to outrun his jumps and wanted to continue the dungeon. His other phases are cool, but they would be cooler if i wasnt confused sick and armor broken.

I liked the rest of the guardians

  • Teleporty guy is really cool and has awesome shot patterns, but he doesnt seem to be as complex as the other bosses. Soloing he seemed very dangerous, but if it was a large group this guy would die in a second and the group would very likely be able to sit still and tank his shots. Definitly the easiest guardian.

  • the other 2 are cool, one is super bullet hell and i forget what the last one does

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#13

Disclaimer, I haven’t fought the Crystal Entity yet, but here’s some preliminary things I found could be improved about the dungeon itself:

  • Good god, the bats. They hit like freight trains, are decently durable, zip around faster than you can aim, and you’re saying they explode and potentially instakill you on death too? It doesn’t help that they love to swarm you. For the love of god, either make them slower, do less damage, not explode on death, or some combination of the above.
  • The purple crystals exploding into that massive ring of shots, which is nearly impossible to dodge if there are other threats in the room as well. Just make it slower or less dense. Fungal Cavern’s crystal explosions were good in my opinion.
  • Why are the Crystal Worm Children standard enemies here? In the Worm Mother fight, there’s only one - and for good reason. Those things are effectively minibosses - they take way too long to kill, and that spiral pattern is a nightmare to deal with if you don’t wipe the rest of the room first. It’s nice thematically that they’re in, but please nerf them.

These are just a few, I’ll likely have more feedback as I go on. I have to say that I’m loving the unique shot patterns you gave these enemies, though.

Edit: Witnessed a few boss fights, and the fight itself looks astounding. Removing the big crystals was a good call, and the boss/minions use lots of crazy shot patterns that haven’t been seen anywhere else in the game. I’m really glad the difficulty was bumped up, it really feels like an endgame dungeon now. That being said, I share a few complaints with what seems like most of the playerbase.

  • An instant AoE confusion is not fun or fair, especially when the monster that uses it can move stupidly fast. I didn’t witness this one firsthand, but I still agree that it should be changed.
  • But most importantly, the scorpion in the boss fight needs a nerf. The scorpion’s shotgun is already a piece of work, making it almost impossible to get close to the thing - and then there’s the clone phase. The clone phase is designed so when a fake one is killed, it explode-and there goes half my health bar. There’s no reason for the shots from the clone explosions to inflict so much goddamn damage - even if you’re far away, it does enough damage to chunk you, or outright kill you if you’re already damaged. And if you are sitting on it, only Oreo or Crystal Shield will save you - which wouldn’t have been nearly as bad if you didn’t have to chase them down while they run away from you. Imagine doing this on a melee.
#14

Maybe it should give speedy until space has been pressed

#15

I feel the star should also boost dex since you’re “focused” and maybe there should be another incentive to clear.

#16

cloak seems super fun to use… in the description though there’s no mention of a decoy. also, i don’t think it needs any passive stat effects, i think leaving it be (like davy prism) is better.

#17

help I’m too impatient to wait to regen and am instead only relying on my 9,999 guardian angels

#18

Though I’ve only experienced a small portion of the new Cavern before being forcibly disconnected, the only new feedback I can give is that these guys:
image
could use a tweak to their rock-spawning happening.
Currently, they cause rocks to “sprout” out of the ground around them - which is cool and all, but it’s also very confusing to deal with for newcomers, and could also easily heavily damage or even kill slightly unaware players.
Either make them come out of it or make it throw them, but don’t use this weird independent spawning mechanic.
For those curious, the sprites are on static.drips, under “crystalCave[nxn]chars/objects”.

And I also agree with @ThymeWarp on the bats - especially the yellow ones, who have a much denser explosion for some reason?

#19

This dungeon is obviously not for newcomers, and the crystals are telegraphed pretty clearly. I think sitting on it as it explodes will do a maximum of 400 dmg, so not too dangerous.

Is it wrong to ask that players be familiar with the dungeon and its enemies, especially such an endgame one like this?

#20

This is the only point that I don’t agree with.
There is no indicator that they spawn from it, nor any way to really tell that they’re going to be spawned until you see them. It’s just something that really doesn’t sit right with me - it feels unnatural.

Aside from that, yeah, the explosion isn’t too lethal. I wasn’t sure how much they did, so I probably exaggerated there >_<

#21

just gonna put this here, ty unibro

haven’t played yet but that cyclops miniboss still op af

#22

Updated Thread.

#23

textwall time.

Here’s how I’ve been experiencing the crystal cave, so far.

Dungeon

I’ve generally found clearing this one difficult. That’s no bad thing, though - I didn’t mind doing it and it was a notch above the dangers fungal had. Enemy variety has taken a huge hit, though. I suspect the short time you’ve had to make this dungeon shows here.

There are some enemies i’ve got problems with, though.


this guy ^ in particular. With the way he splits his projectiles (PosOffset shoot), he can make 4x80 = 320 damage explosions through walls.

This by itself is no problem, but the problem is that it’s not telegraphed at all. You can’t just yeet 320 instant armor piercing damage through thick walls without any indicator it’s going to happen. The best a player can do is assess a red projectile was shot, and within 0.6 seconds interpolate it through a wall to his precise position. But if this guy is pressed against the other side of said wall, perspective of the walls makes it so that you will not see the red projectile shot in your direction to beegin with.

With the way projectiles “splitting” have to be implemented in realm, there’s no better way to go about it either. For this reason, I’d strongly suggest trying an entirely different approach to this enemies’ behavior. If he were to lob grenades that explode in projectiles instead, it’d be fine: You can see the grenade flying to you, even through walls.


These ^ slimes are on the other side of the meanie spectrum. Relative to other enemies in the dungeon, these guys are total chumps. I have not felt threatened by them at all, especially comparing to how aggressive the bats are. These are all very slow, obvious enemies with predictable patterns. Even the “severe” debuffs like paralyze and armor break failed to pose a threat to me so far.

I wouldn’t mind if these were buffed up to bee a lot more menacing across the board.

Boss(es)

I can’t quite speak about all the guardians yet; I don’t think i’ve seen them all yet.

For this reason, i’ll go over all the guards that i’ve seen multiple times so far.


this guy ^ is probably my favorite so far. His patterns are interesting enough and he is engaging due to having to pay attention to his position. The intersection of his attacks with whatever the center crystal throws at you always seem manageable.

However, I do wonder if this guy poses real kill potential - Would this pose a threat to a larger group with priests and paladins? I’m not sure if his potential for damage per second - unless you’re on top of it - will pose much of a threat.


This guy ^ … i think i’ve seen 2 with the same sprite?

One of them confuses, sicks and armor breaks. I really don’t like that one but i’ve seen him once so far, so I don’t have much to say.

The other one, which comes at you with earthquake- like attacks that explode in crystals, are great. I find him engaging yet manageable much like the previous guardian.

Similar to that one, though, I wonder how it fares against larger groups.

an option for either of these to make their damage matter might be including Armor Broken somehow. Puts a stop to tanking anything dealing less than 120 damage, which will often happen with heals and marble seals.


This guy^ is a total chump.

He has an interesting attack pattern, but he’s very similar to a piñata when it comes to damaging him since he doesn’t really move at all, most of the time. Additionally, his damage is low enough where any melee really doesn’t have to care about whatever he shoots.

If I were to stand entirely still I would take 5 or 6 projectiles, dealing 12 damage to me, each.

Much like the previous 2 guardians, I don’t think any decent group with heals will care about his attack patterns (with the current dmg values), Unless armor broken is a constant threat.


This guy ^ is probably my least favorite by a long shot.

His damage, (especially relative to other guardians) is extremely high. Additionally, he’s got the fastest projectile of all by miles. It doesn’t help he’s shooting a ridiculously wide shotgun while rapidly orbiting, either.

When it comes to opportunities to get close to this boss and actually damage it, you require the stars to align. Unlike other guardians, this one does not expose itself to getting hit on any phase the center crystal does. This is most likely because it is the only one who sticks to the center rather than move around in the outer arena. Due to it not meshing well with the crystal’s attack patterns, attack opportunities are greatly reduced.

Additionally, on the AoE phase from the crystal, to keep the balance in check, this boss will quit orbiting and move to the center, shooting when you get to close.

This keeps the AoE phase managable, but also means you’re not going to be able to approach & damage the boss, either.

Another problem I experience with this one is how he goes into his scorpion phase arbitrarily; You could finally have its movement, your health and the crystal attack phase align to permit approaching it, and it will decide to dive into scorpion phase.

Here’s some examples of my day beeing ruined by said situation:

These were about 15 seconds apart.

A similar situation also occurs when the AoE phase starts and it moves to the center: It briefly goes invincible, and is only vulnerable again once it is in the center not moving, becoming harder to approach for anything that’s not got long range.

I would recommend to make this phase happen a fixed amount of time, i.e. at certain HP thresholds. You could buff the danger of the scorpion phase accordingly to make it a special occurence.

Additionally, I would not mind seeing both his movement and shot damage+behavior reworked, currently anything without range can sit and wait most of the time with this boss.

The crystal itself, once it goes vulnerable, is fine. Its patterns are engaging and original, without being overwhelming.

One final thing i’d like to give as something fun to try out, is for the fractal shot pattern it does:

Have you considered playing the davy jones prism bomb sound effect when a bullet explodes?

The telegraphing of it starting with the green arrow is excellent, but the phase itself feels a little lifeless somehow. Perhaps a sound effect to give the sense of a barrage makes it more lively. Just be careful not to too much and pierce ears :stuck_out_tongue:

#24

Damn this hasnt been released yet?

#25

New update, now on testing:

  • Updated EXP
  • Slimes now move faster
  • Crystal Worm has less HP
  • There’s more crystals per room on average
  • Updated sprites for items
  • Removed cooldown on Wakizashi, increased damage to 250, slightly improved movement
  • Shuriken now also gives Berserk when holding
  • Cloak tooltip now mentions the Decoy
  • Updated dialogue of Dwarf Miner
#26

Changed scorpion guy is much better, the shotguns damage seems to have been reduced, and now it is very clear that you have to kill one specific scorpion. It might just be that i wasn’t killing any of the fodder scorpions, and thank the lord for the fixed vulnerability time. I completed the dungeon twice with no UT drops, and have d/c’d around 3 times trying to complete it again.

is there a way for us to get our hands on the UT’s?

#27

I did a run on a 6/8 Wizard (leftover from earlier testing), maxed in base stats, with average HP and MP, using a 100/100 Pet.
Overall, the dungeon is indeed challenging, and the boss fight, though a little chaotic, is quite doable and interesting.
There are only a few complaints that I have which have to do with the difficulty being too high and a few instances of it being too low.

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The Bats: Out of all of them, the purple one caught my attention the most. It’s still fast, hits relatively hard, and has a weird shot pattern that is not at all easy to dodge. It’s not fun having to kite these guys.
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The blue one is alright, but one detail that I dislike about it is its disjointed shots. They start a slight distance away from it, making you susceptible to being hit earlier than you expect. If its 3-shot burst started just a little more “inside” it, I think it’ll bee fine.

image (I couldn’t find their actually yellow-coloured version)
I experienced a glitch while fighting two of these; they shot both their narrow and wide shotgun at once.
Definitely think that’s not intended; this only occurred once with two instances that were next to eachother, and didn’t happen any more afterwards.

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I’m on the fence about this Guardian. Although I love its attack pattern of summoning crystals in a V formation, which then shoot a bunch of bullets, its vulnerability time is astonishingly long.
I think that it should be lowered by a few seconds, but should then also have its speed reduced slightly to make up for it.

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By far my favourite Guardian with its aimed crystal shots attack. Unfortunately, it’s other attack feels a little lackluster - it’s just a +/x shaped boomeranging attack, with nothing else really to it. I think it deserves something a little more interesting.

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Everyone’s (least) favourite enemy, the Scorpion.
I think that its shotgun might still be on the fast side for its damage.
If it were a little slower, and a little less wide during the phase where it summons the reticles, it’ll be juuuust balanced enough.

I can definitely see this being a fun addition to the Fungal Cavern, as long as the drops are interesting!

#28

This is just the proof of concept for a self-slow mechanic on all classes

#29

Exposed in the crystal cavern is a new mechanic, as such I expected it to have some hiccups.
Currently it doesn’t just lower def by 20, it increases damage taken by 20.
They don’t seem that different but it actually causes you to take 20 more damage from all armor piercing shots, instead of just taking 20 more damage on shots that calculate post-armor.
Basically a shot that should always do 80 damage unless you’re cursed will now do 100 damage.
But it shouldn’t, because it ignores armor, so exposed shouldn’t impact it.

Please fix this, as I can see it leading to issues further down the line when exposed is more widely used.

#30

But that’s how exposed works on enemies too. If you armour break them and then expose them they take damage as if they have “-20 defence”. This also works the other way around, if you expose then armour break them because exposed is a continuous effect.

Having negative stats isn’t new/foreign to the game as you can see it with certain class equipment combinations at low level.

#31

You’re not understanding what I am saying here.
It’s not armor broken, it’s armor piercing, meaning it IGNORES ARMOR in the first place.
So by that logic, exposed shouldn’t impact it.
I am not being armor broken, the shot in question has never considered armor values a thing.
So I shouldn’t take 20 more damage when exposed.

People don’t seem to understand the difference between being entirely armor broken, and being hit by a shot that just ignores armor altogether.