PT: In/Out of Combat System and more!

#311

Lmao Shatter getting flagged.

[Worth - Shatter]

#312

yes that is an opinion, because you ignore the rest of the pet abilities. If we look at the actual big picture, 2/3 of all pet abilities are useless. Decoy is so bad that it will ruin rogue rushes and aggro enemies unintentionally, on top of getting you killed since your pet doesn’t bother not moving away from you when it’s “distracting” enemies, luring them straight to you. Savage is bad, it does no damage and can barely kill midlands adds and do nothing to highlands or any dungeon enemy. rising fury sucks since you have to stand still, which you cant in most dungeons lmao, and it’s damage output is also bad. all of the attack abilities are objectively bad as you can not only out damage them, but they also can’t kill most enemies efficiently.

The other third of the abilities are what you’re complaining about, which is HP heal, MP heal and electric, which are the ones that allow people to do stupid stuff, like walking on lava (nevermind the fact that deca can add sick or silence to lava tiles). So this nerf would not only hurt these specific 3 abilities, it would also hurt the trash ones as well.

which is what I don’t understand, instead of wanting a complete overhaul and rework of pets and their abilities, which would fix all of the problems that we are having currently, you just wanna slap a band aid over a decaying and outdated system that is now integral to the game loop.

fast edit:

I could have sworn this wasn’t the case (probably remembering wrong though).

#313

This is a little off-topic, but decoy DOES NOT attract enemies when the character is invisible. This is a common misconception which I hope is cleared up at some.

#314

A brief topic discussing this can be found at: Decoy pet anti cloaking

#315

Wdym? Only heal and mheal are currently affected by the IC system.

#316

One tiny objection: when playing a class like Huntress or Wizard, it’s usually pretty nice to have my pet finish off an enemy that’s already at 1 HP, but didn’t die because of how quickly I landed my shots, and thereby “overdamaged” it.
With my pet, it means that I can just shoot a weak enemy once, then let my pet finish them off quickly, which is pretty neat.

#317

Savage does no damage, yes, so ‘barely kill’ is false-- it can’t kill, period.

A complete overhaul of pets would be great, except that if you think the amount of whining over these nerfs is bad now, what’ll it be like if the pets people spent money on are actually no longer meta?

#318

Checking back on it now, it indeed does no damage. And considering it charges at enemies and nothing else, my point still stands I guess.

then I don’t know what to say then, because pets do need to be reworked since they’re outdated in all fields of gameplay, but if people don’t want that then I guess that’s it then. And the other two options I don’t really like, that being create another separate system from pets (which’ll create UI bloat) or just nerf pets which people (like me) aren’t happy or satisfied with.

then again, DECA could just do what kabam did and not give a shit about what the community thinks, but everyone from that era knows what came of that.

no update gang

#319

I’m not sure if you’ve committed to memory, anything said on this thread, or previous feedback or interactions with the community… but DECA has shown repeatedly to care about this game, and take direct feedback from the community. Nerfing pets is a polarizing issue, definitely. However it’s unfair to label the “community” as solely your stance. I don’t think a supermajority of players exist on the matter. Some amount of players are supportive of the upcoming changes, and some are not.

For years I have messaged Kabam on the matter, followed by DECA. And I’m sure there are a ton of other players like me, veterans and otherwise, who share the same opinion. Clearly, my worldview has some merit to it on these forums.

To Kabam, pets were a cash grab that forever damaged gameplay. They made no changes to pets since they were released.

To DECA, pets were an obstacle, and they recognized how valued they were to some players. Obviously, it was also a primary income stream… but that fact that they’re willing to attempt to fix pets, shows that they’re not all about money.

I recognize your point of view to some extent. However I’m going to call merde on this propositional claim.

#320

that was a my bad, I worded the sentence very weirdly (and badly). I know DECA cares about the game and community but looking back on the sentence it does look like I’m saying they actually dont.

What I meant was DECA could just do what kabam did and ignore all criticism, and do whatever hey wanted, which is why I included the end bit.

but it’s fixed now, so uh yeah.

#321

All of this seems pretty interesting. I like the ideas of the class and item balancing, and the WisMod should definitely be simplified and more interactive with melee classes. This opens a new world of melee loadouts for both paladins and warriors, as well as a whole lot of new item ideas for the two.

I do think the pet nerf is definitely a good idea in terms of game mechanics. I myself just have a legendary pet that I used no money for so I can’t really defend against this change. But whether or not you’re willing to nullify veterans’ time and money for maxed out divine pets should be concerned with a lot more thought.

I’d like to point out some of the pet abilities. This refers to all abilities that aren’t the conventional three (H, MH and Ele). With high pet levels, they can prove to be pretty good, especially Decoy (in most scenarios). However, the overwhelming importance of the conventional three abilities completely removes all reason to have any other ability.

My proposal is that if you are going to nerf or rework pets, you might as well balance the pet abilities. Such a change will open an opportunity for more specialized ability combinations, which promotes the leveling of several pets per account. Due to how incredibly long and expensive the process of leveling up your pet is, I would also suggest making it easier in order to promote the usage of several pets.
This, however, will make the entire change even more controversial for P2P veterans.

#322

Most of the game is teenagers.

#323

max max vitality knight will only get in combat for 1 second lmfao

#324

how and why
still waiting for an answer

#325

not surprised xd

#326

I am fine with this as long as this would only affect pets that are rare+ because this would be very punishing for new players but not as much for older players because of the sheer about of health divine pets heal in a short amount of time compared to low level pets. One way to fix this would be to raise the time till pets are activated again. Such as: divine can heal after 2 sec
common can heal after 1 sec uncommon after 1.2
and rare at 1.4
legendary at 1.6

#327

The Grandfather Clause was a legal or constitutional mechanism passed by seven Southern states during reconstruction to deny suffrage to black Americans. … In 1915 the Supreme Court declared the grandfather clause unconstitutional because it violated equal voting rights guaranteed by the Fifteenth Amendment.

It’s not even US Law, unless you’re talking about a different one?

#328

Not me :smiley:

#329

First of all, apologies for any formatting/calculation errors, wrote this on phone while tired. This would also be the reason for any unreadable math explanation / formula notation.

The benefits of also including lower level pets into the mix:

  • easier to create (a flat 3 seconds is easier to code than a variable time per pet level)
  • Allows newer players to get used to the IC/OOC system
  • For low level pets this is a net buff in some cases (math below)

Math time!
Let’s compare IC/OOC versus now for two situations:

Formulas and sources

I’ll quickly list the formulas and sources I’ve used in calculating. I won’t write this down over and over again, so if you’re wondering where a specific number comes from, feel free to verify my findings using these sources.

  • Stat formula source
  • Vit HP recovery: 1+0.12*vit
  • Wis MP recovery: 0.5+0.06*wis
  • Pet heal numbers source
  • IC time: 7 - 0.2 * floor(vit/5), with the vit/5 part rounded down
  • OOC vit: 2+0.24*vit
  • OOC wis: 1+0.12*wis
  • I will report HP/MP recovery as such: HP/MP from vit/wis + HP/MP from pet = total HP/MP per second.
  • To calculate how much you need to be OOC to have identical regen as in the current system, I use the following formula: `IC_time * IC_regen + OOC_time * OOC_regen = (IC_time+OOC_time)*current_regen.
  • To convert above to amount of time to be OOC, I fill in IC_time based on the character’s vit using the formula given above. Rewriting to get OOC_time we get:
  • OOC_time = IC_time*(current_regen - IC_regen) / (OOC_regen-current_regen)
  • Example: IC time = 5s. IC regen = 10, OC regen = 17, current regen = 12. We then get OOC = 5*(12-10) / (17-12) -> OOC = 5*2/5 -> OOC = 2
Level 30 Heal or MHeal, 20 vit, 40 wis

This is similar to an average level 20 on a robe class.
With these stats, you’d have a HP regen of 3.4+3.66=7.06 HP/s.
MP regen would be 2.9+0.79=3.69 MP/s.

With 20 vit, you’re in combat for 6.2 seconds. With IC, you would have a HP regen of 3.4+2.05=5.45 HP/s, and an MP regen of 2.9+0.43=3.33 MP/s.

With OOC, this would become 6.8+3.66=10.46HP/s and 5.8+0.79=6.59MP/s

To have better regenerative ability, you’d need to be OOC for 32.2/10.6%

Level 50 Heal/MHeal, 40 vit, 50 wis

Similar to max on leather classes.

  • HP regen: 14.45 HP/s
  • MP regen: 6.51 MP/s
  • IC duration: 5.4s
  • IC HP/s: 9.86 (-4.56, 31.7%)
  • IC MP/s: 4.91 (-1.59, 24.5%)
  • OOC HP/s: 20.25 (+5.8, 40.1%)
  • OOC MP/s: 10.51 MP/s (+3.5, 53.8%)
  • OOC required for 44.1/31.3% of the time to have equal recovery
Level 70 Heal/MHeal, 40 vit, 50 wis

Similar to max on leather classes.

  • HP regen: 26.2 HP/s
  • MP regen: 12.17 MP/s
  • IC duration: 5.4s
  • IC HP/s: 13.86 (-12.43, 47.1%)
  • IC MP/s: 6.93 (-5.25, 43.1%)
  • OOC HP/s: 32.0 (+5.8, 22.1%)
  • OOC MP/s: 15.67 MP/s (+3.5, 28.8%)
  • OOC required for 68.0/60.0% of the time to have equal recovery
Level 90 Heal/MHeal, 75 vit, 50 wis

max on Knight.

  • HP regen: 58.59 HP/s
  • MP regen: 26.74 MP/s
  • IC duration: 4s
  • IC HP/s: 25.61 (-32.98, 56.3%)
  • IC MP/s: 10.97 (-15.77, 59.0%)
  • OOC HP/s: 68.59 (+10, 17.1%)
  • OOC MP/s: 30.24 MP/s (+3.5, 13.1%)
  • OOC required for 76.7/81.8% of the time to have equal recovery
Level 100 Heal/MHeal, 75 vit, 75 wis

Max base vit/wis any class has

  • HP regen: 100 HP/s
  • MP regen: 50 MP/s
  • IC duration: 4s
  • IC HP/s: 32.5 (-67.5, 67.5%)
  • IC MP/s: 16.25 (-33.75, 67.5%)
  • OOC HP/s: 110 (+10, 10%)
  • OOC MP/s: 55 MP/s (+5, 10%)
  • OOC required for 76.7/81.8% of the time to have equal recovery
Level 100 Heal/MHeal, 152 vit, 117 wis

Max achievable stats

for vit: knights/warrior with keychain cutlass, Colo/ggen, Fungal breastplate, Ring Pop/Candy Ring

For wis: Necro with Legacy Sentient Staff, Bloodsucker Skull, Ritual Robe and Geb’s Ring of Wisdom

  • HP regen: 109.24 HP/s
  • MP regen: 52.52 MP/s
  • IC duration: 1s
  • IC HP/s: 41.74 (-67.5, 61.8%)
  • IC MP/s: 18.77 (-33.75, 64.3%)
  • OOC HP/s: 128.48 (+19.24, 17.6%)
  • OOC MP/s: 60.04 MP/s (+7.52, 14.3%)
  • OOC required for 77.8/81.8% of the time to have equal recovery

Conclusion: Yes, this is a nerf for high level pets (Read: legendary+) but bad pets are hit way less hard. For the people who will use this as an argument to say this is too harsh a nerf, please note that even IC, you recover more than a player with a Rare pet heals Out of combat. It’s not all that bad.

I think it’s fairly balanced. Yes, Divine pet owners have a huge advantage over i.e. legendary (IC: 9 HP/s or 75 vit, 5.28 MP/s or 88 wis) but it’s far less broken, except when they’re out of combat, but again they pay for that advantage.

#330

A pretty good post, except you forgot one thing; note the specific wording of Kidd here:

As such, I would beelieve that it’s the entire formula that gets doubled, and not just the boost gained per vit above 0; so, instead of your

It’d be:
* OOC vit: 2+0.24*vit
* OOC wis: 1+0.12*wis

So, the actual OOC regens, per every standard, would be:
Level 30 Heal/MHeal, 20 vit, 40 wis
OOC vit regen: 6.8+3.66= 10.46 HP/s
OOC wis regen: 4.6+0.79 = 5.59 MP/s

Level 50 Heal/MHeal, 40 vit, 50 wis
OOC vit regen: 20.25 HP/sec
OOC wis regen: 10.01 MP/sec

Level 70 Heal/MHeal, 40 vit, 50 wis
OOC vit regen: 32.0 HP/sec
OOC wis regen: 15.67 MP/sec

Level 90 Heal/MHeal, 75 vit, 50 wis
OOC vit regen: 68.59 HP/sec
OOC wis regen: 30.24 MP/sec

Level 100 Heal/MHeal, 75 vit, 75 wis
OOC vit regen: 110 HP/sec
OOC wis regen: 55 MP/sec

Level 100 Heal/MHeal, 152 vit, 117 wis
OOC vit regen: 128.47 HP/sec
OOC wis regen: 59.08 MP/sec

…so just +1 in HP/sec, and +0.5 in MP/sec >u<