Lots of people feel that pets made the game worse and unbalanced. Do you think they’re wrong? This change makes it slightly more meaningful for end-game players to dodge, while also increasing the pace for newer players with the OOC vit/wis changes.
PT: In/Out of Combat System and more!
TannerLG
#105
My only gripe with this is the In/Out of Combat System. The rest is tolerable. Honestly though, I think the pet cooldowns should be replaced with the inability to teleport away.
SilverM
#106
I do agree that death is what makes RotMG unique compared to other games (as well as many, many other roguelikes such as Risk of Rain), the main issue I have with death being so easy to happen specially with this nerf, is the long grind back to where you last were, so you can try relearning the boss and figure what took you out.
Of course this is counterable if you have let’s say, another 6/8 or a vault full of pots, but these take a while to achieve as well and the vaults usually require money investiments. As a Touhou player, I am very aware of death punishing you for not knowing, but the thing about Touhou is, you can get back to where you were relatively quickly, meaning adapting to a boss doesn’t take too long. RotMG on the other hand due it’s repetitive progression, needs the endgame hard, but still pretty fair to have staying power. Thus why things like the Nest and the Cavern dungeons fell down quickly (outside of not having amazing UTs like the halls does)
TigeltoN
#107
how does making you back up and recover make the game faster? How does having 3 sec cooldown in combat make endgame faster? The entire endgame is based around having good pets, now you dont an everything that already takes to long will be even longer and more annoying. How does any of these changes prevent something from getting dps steam rolled, it doesnt.
Gasp
#108
yeah it’s not even a pvp game. And SB dmg is so easy to get for pretty much any class these days.
Sturky
#109
I feel like this in particular needs mentioning to get a good message across about the balancing of OoC.
Me and Magycyan duo’d a Void on our first try. Zero admin items.
Now I know what you’re thinking: " Christmas consumables, Maxed Divine Pets, the best gear in the game reeeeeeeeeeeee " All that did was make this effort reasonably doable. Take a minute and listen to what I have to say.
This fight was noticeably easier than we had initially expected. The Void Entity died quicker than you’d think it would due to its significantly reduced health pool. The arena honestly didn’t shrink that much before we got to All Now Ends, it was like a below average Pub Halls run in terms of pace. And keep in mind Berserk got nerfed from 150% to 125%. If we had time to try it, I’d argue we could’ve managed this without the Christmas consumables. Magy even said that this was easier than a duo without I/OoC, and he’s quite the veteran.
But because it was easier than we were expecting, does that mean I/OoC makes the game easy? Heck no. This was a test of skill to the utmost degree. Any hit from something that wasn’t a Void Fragment slapped up with IC, forcing us to pay attention to our surroundings and dodge what we could. Yeah, we had to dodge projectiles, and that’s not just because this is the Void Entity. Keep in mind that because this was a duo, we had to cross the Pure Evil bridges a lot, and those slap you with IC too. I had to step away from dealing damage, and focus on actually dodging and trying to heal several times throughout the fight. My divine pet’s influence was certainly noticeable, even when IC, but I really did have to step out and get OoC to bump my healing up, cause it makes a huge difference. Note the three health potions that I used as well.
So what’s my point here? My point is that the values in the game mean far more now than just how often you can spam your abilities, tank projectiles, endure debuffs, and whatever else. Knowing what you’re getting into, and knowing how to play the game is now far more rewarding than it is currently. Anyone who’s complaining, or just unsure about the new level of balance that I/OoC brings to the table should really test it out thoroughly first. Cause if you actually have skill, the game goes even faster than it does currently. And the game’s not that hard to learn.
If I poorly detailed anything, contradicted myself, or just spoke idiocy at all here, feel free to tell me. I have plenty of detail about OoC to go into if need be.
Imasquash
#110
Everyone in this thread who has not actually played testing needs to just stop replying. All I hear are a bunch of dudes who are ass at the game complaining that they cant continue being ass because of their pets.
Great points and congrats on the duo, Sturky
SilverM
#111
I do understand your points, however another thing that should be mentioned, is that this was done by two veterans with relatively nice geared characters. My issues with the new system (even if it makes small group runs alot faster) is that it’s still relatively quite punishing to players who are new to the actual content. Yes you can say that you died because you pushed too far, but at some point you have to, don’t know if everyone’s satisfied with just sticking to tombs only for 8/8 or just using WC tops.
While I am a yellow star, I am in no way experienced at Lost Halls (I don’t like sitting and listening to a RL that much). And since you mentioned you had to pull out of the fight and have to dodge while constantly healing with a full divine (which is now equal to just rare with the IC in place), it makes pretty harder for players with weaker pets to learn this. And considering the actual grind to get a pet to max (deaths required, FP needed) I feel like endgame with this becomes a little bit limited in it’s “learning” experience
Imasquash
#112
that this was done by two veterans with relatively nice geared characters
Are we truly at a point where people think that endgame encounters should not require endgame skills and gear to complete??
stellalumi
#113
Bugs to report. I’ll keep it short.
Crystal Worm Mother’s segments can be paralyzed. What happens is that the head keeps moving while the segment dislodges from the body. Once the segment becomes unpara’d, it snaps back to the body in an instant. This completely ruins the intended rotation.
I believe that any worm boss or enemy should have fully movement (slow/para/petrify) immunities on their segments, as they work properly when these effects are applied to the head.
Oryx 2 has the “exploding red artifacts” in its “dancing” and “withstand power” phases. These should also be totally movement immune as they can form undodgeable spreads if thrown off rotation.
EDIT: Oryx 1 Anti-Spectators should also be movement immune and stasis immune. When Oryx 1 gets steamrolled and dies, these may remain at the spot where Oryx died and continue to shoot out projectiles, which kills people who run in for loot.
Also, Janus Keys should stop shooting after Janus dies, and/or be completely stasis immune. It’s a very common trolling tactic for mystics to stasis Janus Rage keys right as Janus dies, only for players to run in for loot and get instakilled by a Janus Key.
SilverM
#114
I would consider the minimun being WC tops and lower ended white bags. Jugg I would consider a bit less due the fact it’s an extremely rare event white bag which makes it heavily limited. But Nest Helm, Colo Sword and Crown are exactly on the risky places and only drop on completion. If you need something of that level to beat the dungeon, then I am sorry but the balance is complete.
TLDR: It has to be beatable without items that are obtained within it, or harder ones.
Edit: Also you ignored the fact that I pointed them as veterans. This means they know the attacks, and how to handle them. Yet one of them still had to sit and dodge for a while with a divine pet (it implies it took a bit still). From a player with lack of experience in the halls dungeon, this sytem cripples me more as I am not fully aware of when it’s safer to fall back and regen, and there is the difficulty of learning exactly when
WindowsHDD
#115
for pets, I only see this as a temporary solution, as most of the mid-late game content was/has and still is built around pets being op as hell, so unless they also change bosses and dungeons themselves to accommodate these changes, it’ll just lead to more dead dungeons (like lost halls, nest, fungal cavern, mountain temple :d ).
and for the bullet hell aspect of this game I’d say it’s pretty important to note how bullshit this game is now, with having near impossible to dodge shots (Marble Colossus OWO), rampant abuse of status effects (which would be fine, but effects like pet stasis will only cripple pets more now), and just in general how much enemies and bosses spam shots.
just because it’s not hard to learn doesn’t mean it isnt hard to master :c
well, looking at sturky’s set (since they both are the same), it’s a ST sword that is insanely rare to get unless you roll the mystery box (which most people will lmao) and the chestplate can also be rolled for. marble sword and chestplate are obviously rare, but you will very rarely see these on people who do non discord runs, so that’s null. the only things I’d say you’d see anyone normally use would be jug, beehelm (if they grinded or got lucky) and crown on already decked out players. splendor sword is a meme since it’s drop rate is as bad as my ability to not put commas everywhere, so idk about that.
as for end game skills, even those wont say(save**, wtf is it say???) you if you haven’t PRACTICED on boss patterns.
Wawawa
#117
If it works just like Stasis, then first one gets served, and yeah lower duration will stop the higher duration. This is already the case with Stasis, hence why when there are several orbs in play, it’s hard to tell how long stuff will be stasised.
This was done on the last PT for immunities. The issue with that solution is 1/ you remove any advantage of a longer duration, since the immunity scale (is it better to stun 2sec then immune 2sec, or stun 5sec then immune 5sec?). It means tiers won’t give you a real boost. and 2/ it makes it even harder to know when the immunity stops, since it will be a time dependent of the previous weapon use. It would make it even harder to tell when immunity starts/stops
I want that for stasis and stun since years, I hope they implement that someday
Goldnfish
#119
The highest vit possible is 190, how will that effect the in combat state as the duration of the effect would be -.6 seconds?
Sturky
#120
My Void knowledge consists of about ten Pub Halls runs. That’s it. I volunteered as filler because MrUnibro was absent at the time. By no means did I really understand what I was doing against the Void Entity. I had Magy detail me on the base of what I should do, which I translated into gameplay quite well. Good communication in and of itself is something to appreciate.
Since people are noting the gear we used, allow me to note that this gear was used to make this as feasible as possible for us. I believe Magy stated that he wouldn’t actually bring a Jugg or Bee Helm to a duo Void, yet he’s duo’d a Void before, possibly even multiple. I’m quite sure you can even find footage of it on Sebchoof’s channel, they share a guild, after all. The rest were really just for DPS, which considering our pace that I mentioned, we definitely had a lot of leeway with. All the Void Shades are subject to the -25% base health too, so they really don’t last too long. Not to mention a good chunk of the gear isn’t even that hard to get. I mean, you can just trade for Pixies.
Another thing to keep in mind is that this was a Duo Void. Something like this probably wasn’t even thought to be possible for a long time. The difficulty is really not something you should openly compare to. A simple 6/8 with WC tops is all you really need to do well in Halls, and I/OoC won’t change that, as I’ve stated.
Orsome
#121
That’s probably using consumables, and if not, then congrats who ever manages that breaks the system.
Wawawa
#122
and don’t forget it’s testing so no fear of death etc. Even with all those consummables it was a challenge, and to be fair it’s also normal, considering void isn’t supposed to be done in duo (note that it also shouldn’t be done with 60+players like now, I won’t deny that :p)
Imo the best endgame dungeon still is Tomb. The difficulty is there, but there is a way to put tactics in order to make it easier (if you aim correctly). You have slow sand, but you can get out whenever you want, no enclosed space of death. It’s also a nightmare for all hackers because their autoaim shoot at all 3 bosses, making the fight way harder (and tomb was made before there was so much hackers too, it’s just that sweet of a dungeon :p)
Because pets are what they are, and because ppl asked for difficulty, it went toward big shots and status effect. To be fair, I preferred Encore path of load of pet stasis shots over the LH DPS wall + big shots path, but in the end there is not much you can do to make things “hard” for divine pets while still “fair” for petless/low pet players.
I’m eager to see this pet nerf which maybe will help lower the gap from divine to common, so we can have real dungeon difficulty, instead of pinata for divine users and impossible for common pets.
SilverM
#123
Well I guess now my opnion means something as I managed to beat an endgame something. And yes, I do see the point of things being “easier” due the HP cut, I still wouldn’t rate them as fun when you are trying to learn the patterns and keep yourself alive. I guess this lack of fun is more me not enjoying the idea of every attack being a shotgun or dealing 200 damage, but I will agree that the -25% base HP is a welcome change. Though this “solo” still didn’t change my opnion that much (due the fact I ran with 6 others and only I lived)