PT: In/Out of Combat System and more!

#165

I’m a redstar… started half a year ago I replied somewhere up there (too lazy to find it)

#167

obviously

the problem i’m having is all the people who haven’t tested it at all, and often have no intention to in the future, feel entitled to Cry ‘Havoc!’ in the thread

#168

I am against these changes. I will continue to delve into the changes on the testing server.

However, I will start up my broken record and say once again that Kiddforce is as misguided as ever.

To address Kiddforce directly, we need more data. Otherwise I will assume you are lying.

Kiddforce stated that he thought the Rifts event was a success.

After I got my rewards in Rifts I stopped playing it seriously. I did continue to check on the health of the servers, however. Within 3 days I saw the amount of players inside Rifts precipitously drop.

It dropped to the point where the vast majority of the servers were literally empty on the 3rd day.

So Kiddforce is trying to deceive us.

The truth is players may not know what they want. Honestly I agree with the Wow creator when he said “You think you do, but you don’t”.

Show us graphs that support players having a continuing interest in no/low level pet gameplay in Rifts. My anecdotal evidence shows that that your claims are false.

Secondly, I also doubt the veracity of your hinted loot changes. As we know, players have disliked dying over the years.Given Deca’s track record, we have no reason to believe drop rates will improve. There are also items like backpacks, dyes, and limited edition items (the alien cores) which cannot be obtained again. Shame on you for trying to convince the community to agree to these changes in the hopes of getting loot.
For example, Deca recently nerfed pet feedpower of pet skins to 1000. After that nerf the drop rate of pet skins has been precipitously low. For all intents and puposes Deca misled the community about future pet drop rates improving. The bottom line is we can’t trust you.

Third, you refuse to address he continental divide between players. You say the game is too easy. I say the game is too easy with discord.

The community is divided sharply between the discord users and the non discord users.

What does nerfing pets do? Not much. It just encourages more huddling together in coordinated groups. This makes sense. However, as I stated many times before, if you log onto my best server USE2 in the afternoon EST the server is just dead. You’d have no idea where people are.

Please forget the pets. Focus on this issue. Focus on bringing people back into the game. Give some bonuses that support older players completing dungeons with newer players. Make tokens part of the economy. Unbind simple pet skins that can be shared. Promote guilds that actually do something other than dispense pots.

Fourth, you continue to ignore the biggest issue facing the bullet hell aspect of the game. The fact is when players and their giant pets are around you, dodging is much harder.
There needs to be a way to make other players and pets transparent. Otherwise groups greater than 10 will inevitably turn into huddle sessions because it’s just too hard to see stuff.

Again, give use the tools to dodge. I need to be able to see the shots to dodge them effectively.

Those are all my important points. Some minor points follow:

The changes to DEF will not prevent the number one cause of skilled player death, which is instapops. As long as the statues can sit on you def is not going to matter.

In addition several players have done the math and essentially all godland gods will be able to prevent you from staying out of combat even with max def on leather classes.

For example, say I am an Archer. The highest achievable defense on Archer is 59, according to Realmeye, with deathless set + ubdef. Literally any shot that does more than 73 damage will put me into IC, and most godlands monsters will do that. Without Armored, which most classes don’t have access to, basically taking any hit from any boss will put you into IC anyway, completely defeating the purpose of defense building.

Your changes to mystic are terrible as well. If you want mystic to be played more stasis has to go. The trolling aspect will always make it a hated and despised class. End of story. As a player I expected you to know this. Everyone roles their eyes when something gets stasised.

The changes to status immunity will ultimately be tedious. Oryx will just suffer from the it was stunned phenomenon where knights rush in only for oryx to become unstunned at the last second. It’s going to be too hard to tell when status effects will wear off. I will continue to test this but I know it to be true.

On a positive note, the changes to the Dwarf miner are good in my opinion.

#169

Honestly i don’t feel like this pala nerf is handled right let’s compare two armored giving abilities to perma buff with jugg u need 20mp/sec while marble requires about 24,5mp/sec if we consider damaging and berserk dps boost equal then this leaves u with more expensive mana wise seal which limits your mobility and cheaper easier to use helmet not to mention that ur stats on paladin are still lower than on warrior only advantage that u get from the seal is the ability to apply armored to the nearby players before that nerf jugg at least had a cd and pala could heal (not with the marble seal but still)

#170

You might want to read that again. I said that it makes dodging slightly more meaningful for endgame, and it makes things faster for new players with the OOC vit/wis changes. Endgame players get that too, btw.

What you’re arguing for is the ability to tank a shot and completely ignore it unless you go out of your way to eat more. That’s the current state of pets, and it means most content is trivialized besides endgame, which has buffed up numbers to compensate.

If you nerf the pet, you nerf the need to buff up endgame.

And if you think a nerfed pet is going to make you back up more, maybe you should look into re-learning how to dodge :wink:

#171

I like this! Paly n necro vit buffs are good

The upgrade to the importance of wis and vit when ooc is a good choice, didn’t see much use in them before
because of how small the changes were between pots, but now with double in ooc that’ll be a nice touch.

Was real excited to see the dex change on the Mystic, one of the main reasons why I didn’t play that class
compared to the wiz n necro

Also can’t wait to get one of those mini godland pet skins ooooooooooooo

#172

The people have spoken! Turn rotmg into a Idle game that you watch play itself!

#173

My apologies in advance for cherrypicking like this, but I heavily disagree.
While I agree that Stasis is a very easily abused Status effect that often does more harm than good (be it intentional or by accident), at the very least Mystic is much more consistent in her damage output now.
Only needing to use the Orb every 9 seconds or so means there’s less chance to slip up - whereas now, you’re heavily incentivized to use your Orb as much as possible to keep up the self-buff.

No, this change does not make Mystic’s trolling potential worse. It does, however, address Mystic’s problem with her DPS being extremely mana-dependent.
As Kidd summarized it:

So hopefully, there’ll be some way to improve Mystic’s Stasis in some rational way in the future. It may not be the update that brings these changes, but I have trust that they’ll address it.

#174

So… the combat system is getting fucked up into something complex, removing a huge reason (simplicity) of why people pay ROTMG. Dunno

#175

Having spent a couple hours on the testing server, I have a few notes about the changes.

Dwarf miner changes are great, and I can see a lot more people be willing to do it in realms.
The in/out of combat system is a good start, but there are a couple things I would like addressed regarding it:

  • The threshold seems too small, I would have it scale with def or vit in some way, or make it so that you need to get hit by a certain amount of shots or total amount of damage within a certain timeframe (or both). This is mostly because of the pure density of shots in something such as MBC, it would be nearly impossible to dodge every shot in a big group.
  • Additionally, I think it would feel like less of a downgrade if your pet still had the same cooldown, but healed less per tick when out of combat such as a lvl 100 pet out of combat healing around 20 hp every second, instead of 90 hp every 4 seconds. This could also waste heals less (due to already being at max or close to max and getting a +90) and could potentially save someone’s life if they’re extremely low and get a few smaller heals in the same timeframe than making the same heal amount take longer.

The double vit and wis effectiveness while out of combat is a great addition, and it should make petless players have a better time with the game as well. I also appreciate that vit has a clear purpose now and it will be worth it to get vit stats on your character instead of ignoring it.

I don’t have much to say on the mystic, pally, and warrior changes as I haven’t tried them myself yet.

#176

Personally I think scaling the treshold up at all isn’t actually a good idea, the most I would do is raise it to 20. Theres already a lot of shots that simply wont activate the treshold on a tops set paladin (who has the lowest def of the melees) and raising it even a little would make it so a lot of small bullet storm shots dont even phase melees with this system. Scaling the treshold off of any defensive kind of stat would just accentuate this issue and melees would go back to being the absolute kings of tanking everything.

Right now with the changes I think melees have a very nice feel to them compared to ranged, ranged gets a lot more freedom to move and doesnt need to get as close but they get the treshold triggered on everything. Meanwhile melees get the benefit of being able to ignore some of those small bullet storms and get back out of combat faster. It really feels like theres a large difference in playstyle between the two that I really like, but if you increased the treshold it would only truly benefit melees.

On your second point, I wouldnt really mind either way but I do think its more intense to have to wait for that big heal rather than having constant regen from your pet.

#177

I would agree with you if there were small bullets in endgame dungeons. As other people have said, its rare to actually see bullets that do 15 damage or under after def is calculated in the likes of lost halls, crystal/fungal, shatters etc. though I suppose that is the point. I’ll just have to wait and see how it turns out in future testing sessions and prod, because it’s hard to tell how I really feel on it currently.

#178

I really don’t think you should be able to tank anything in the endgame dungeons without incurring the penalty personally. That said if they do decide to change the threshold I think they really need to find some other kind of way for it to work because increasing the current version runs into the issues I said before.

#179

Imo the problem is more so not being able to see the shots enough to dodge them in your average group, which will continue to be a problem until unity comes around and we have the ability to toggle player and pet transparency.

#180

just set the maximum pet limit to LEGENDARY, all okay no OP

#181

no thanks, that literally deletes every divine pet owner’s money/effort

#182

I personally have gotten onto testing 6ish times, and only 2/6 times I liked what the final product was on prod, so what makes this different? even if it seems good on testing, there’s a near 100% chance I wont like it on prod (just like I dont like fungal cavern and [DRWFSEDWAFZRgdewds MINEING] ) because they’re completely different environments.

and most people who are being constructive have shown examples of where this would be a major problem.

riskless or pointless? because most endgame content has lost it’s point because of how hard they are. And that’s because the game doesn’t incentivise you to do dungeons meaningfully, cooperatively, so why should people want risk or challenge when the reward is poopoo?

as for riskless, obviously, unless its nest, lost halls or void, then it’s just hell on earth.

NOw F0r MiI EpIk PwnIng oF BAcKPeDIL

half truth, possibly. outright lying? I dont think so, unless you can back that up with proper evidencesssssssssss,

im quite sure this quote was from someone asking for classic WoW servers. So, this quote’s meaning is null now since they launched WoW classic, to a positive repsonse, and is still active months later. So yeah, but it does depend on the type of game and audience I guess.

now this, this is something we both can agree on.

I wouldn’t say forget about them, but more so focus on the more rampant issues such as the already suffocating economy (seriously, please unsoulbound T14 armor and T13 weapons).

agreed, but they are supposedly fixing this in the unity port :smiley:

just make enemies vulnerable when stasised, easy fix :sunglasses:

agreed, [DDW4t5yhgtrsfewaF] was really tedious and irritating to do, so it’s good to see it balanced :slight_smile:

#183

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I solo’d a Cultist Hideout, with the set shown. It felt a lot easier - during most parts of it, I was executing basically the same strategy as I would normally - take on enemies one by one, regen if hit, etc. I got a little careless during Molek, but I ended up using only one of the two HP pots I found. The rest was not that bad, no phases felt longer than they do on prod - which means that this’ll be a lot easier with a pet.

#184

How do you learn how to do calculus?

Practice via homework and tests. Did you feel lost at first? Yeah sure. Will you learn from mistakes? Yes. In fact, if you make a horrible mistake (like forgetting +C on every problem or dying to void) you’ll remember it more clearly.

#185

That isn’t a very good comparison to what happens in RotMG. If you make a horrible mistake in calculus, you can just try again from where you messed up. If you make a horrible mistake within RotMG and assuming you don’t have a large ammount of characters at the same state in terms of status maxed, you go all the way from the beginning of the game and have to do the entire maxing process (which with the removal of rushing, will take possibly alot longer since people who are maxed won’t bother clearing dungeons they maxed the stats of, unless they extremely need a drop from there) to then be able to try that same content you made the mistake once again.

Edit: Making this reply a bit more simple, the issue isn’t the learning process on it’s own, instead it’s the time taken to start learning again, which most new players will most likely forget what they learned by the time they get to that content again. Which then creates an endless loop until that player either drops money, or wait long enough to accumulate enough characters to throw themselves at it constantly, which basically makes them feel locked out of things