This.
Why should lumiare stay so effective if they’re cutting down enforcer? I’d argue that lumiare is even more OP.
Public Testing this weekend!
AnxietyX
#43
Enforcer nerf was needed, but not the way they handled it, I’d say the only way to NERF it is reduce the Arc Gap, but not that much, 14 was too skyhigh, even if it’s not like the Demon Blade, the gameplay changes drastically when using, especially the reduced range.
I’d say just change the Arc Gap from 6 > 8 - 10, and it might not sound like much but you’ll feel a big difference while playing, everything else should stay.
Edclink
#44
Enforcer nerf was needed, but not the way they handled it, I’d say the only way to NERF it is reduce the Arc Gap, but not that much, 14 was too skyhigh, even if it’s not like the Demon Blade, the gameplay changes drastically when using, especially the reduced range.
I’d say just change the Arc Gap from 6 > 8, and it might not sound like much but you’ll feel a big difference while playing, everything else should stay.
Right, and they shouldn’t touch the shot speed either, it feels a lot worse. Like I’m not talking about practicality or usefulness, the shots just look lame with decreased shot speed…
CandyShi
#45
As someone who has (arguably) too much experience with the bee helm pre and post buff, I don’t see the problem with it. Sure, on paper it may seem strong, however warrior doesn’t really get the chance to curse things unless very close range. The effective range of the bees is approximately 2 tiles, while mystic can curse globally. Being able to stack buffs (armored/speedy) may be a bit OP, so perhaps adding a 3 second cooldown to the helm would suffice? This would allow for perma buffing while reducing its buff stacking capabilities, since it already does not have wismod.
Now I would have liked to be able to test it out in O3, void (curse kinda pointless tho), cult, etc…
Mizumi
#46
I have tried it on O3 and I can say that the bees are very useful when he chases you or you’re running (eg. inner and outer rotates) since the bees drag behind you now that they are summons. So their effective range is longer when you’re moving and the enemy is behind.
I don’t think adding a cooldown will fix it, since you could just use regular helm or jugg first and then switch to bee helm rather than the other way around.
CandyShi
#47
well jugg has a 4.5 second buff duration at 50 wis, so a 5 second cooldown would actually deny jugg usage quite well, unless a wisdom armor/ring is used (which would actually be kind of nice to encourage)
Speedy helm not so much.
Maybe a cooldown isn’t the way to go, but the helm has its strengths and weaknesses
this is something i didn’t get to try out because the only endgame dungeon i did was lost halls (mbeec) and i can say for sure, the helm sucked a lot against a
a) stationary enemy
b) which spams projectiles making it hard to get close
c) which has a lot of defense
Mizumi
#48
Well the majority of the game’s content is not MBC bullet spam. Just because the helm is not overpowered in specific endgame dungeons does not mean it’s not overpowered in general.
Warriors have almost unconditional berserk, speedy, armoured and now curse. In comparison, other classes don’t even come close. It is important to be careful not to give a single class that much power.
WanDwarfV
#52
You do realize that dblade has more than twice the spread.
Saying enforcer nerf is bad is like asking for corruption cutter to be buffed. They’re practically the same item.
Edclink
#53
Well obviously they aren’t the exact same thing. I thought that was obvious, so I didn’t feel the need to clarify.
But don’t you think it’s bad that the two are comparable in the first place? A rare endgame sanctuary white katana to an midgame dungeon sword nobody ever uses?
Meanwhile sword classes still have far more alternatives as well as better abilities to compensate. Whether it be Divinity, Colossus, Arcane Rapier, Cutlass, Pixie, Chipper, and Henchman’s Claymore, Swashbuckler’s Sickle and many others. They get more defense with higher maximum defense stats and better equipment bonuses as a trade off for having to deal with short ranges.
With this nerf to the enforcer, alongside a slower projectile speed, katana classes get a true range around four tiles, which is close to the range of many swords, while still not having the defense of sword classes. All of that, and then add on the limited selection of katana swapouts, and you’ll see why this is a problem.
I don’t think or even understand how this comparison works. Corruption cutter is still a midgame drop, and I’d argue the library is even easier than the abyss.
It’s not a carbon copy of the demon blade, no two weapons are. That doesn’t mean that it can’t end up in the same position for their respective classes.
WanDwarfV
#54
I mean, wasn’t that the point of katana classes? With special exceptions like ray, katanas were supposed to be shorter than daggers, longer than swords, and do damage in that respective range.
Ninja’s range is compensated by its ability. Even then, ninja was not meant to be another dps class, rather meant to be used for it’s speed, whether to rush, or run through the realm.
Samurai DOES have heavy armor, but was more dps based with its waki rather than having defense.
If you place those classes only because of an item that gives higher range with higher damage, essentially replacing tiered katanas, then that’s not the class for you. If you want to exalt a class you hate without enforcer, do it and never touch it again.
While the lack of valid katana variety is a good point, keep in mind that katanas were released a few years after RotMG has started, when there were plenty of whites for other weapon types. DECA still had to release new UTs for all weapons, and katana classes were never given much love in the first place, thus the lack of UT katanas. Nerfing enforcer would introduce a different playstyle than tier katanas, which is how UTs were supposed to be.
While I don’t get the last part. I did not mean to bring d blade into the comparison, if anything, I did not think enforcer was to be compared with d blade at all. The first weapon I thought of was this:
While people did say corruption cutter had a bugged attack pattern, DECA’s intent for the weapon was basically the same. High damage at the cost of low range. Complaining about a change that makes the enforcer similar to a weapon already accepted by the community with no complaints (Cutter) is honestly really annoying.
PRCSakura
#55
Does anyone notice that the Crystal Entity’s HP buff (well from Testing) is reversing it to pre-IC/OoC?
Jukkii
#56
I mean, wasn’t that the point of katana classes? With special exceptions like ray, katanas were supposed to be shorter than daggers, longer than swords, and do damage in that respective range.
Maybe it was, but that’s not how it turned out due to a design flaw, that being the designers overvaluing piercing in katanas way too much, resulting in katanas not doing enough damage. They overcompensated for the piercing, which is a common theme with many piercing weapons from kabam era.
Ninja’s range is compensated by its ability.
It is not. Even if this was an original design goal, no one, especially the people that would have an enforcer is going to be using tiered stars for damage, all the best stars (kunai, enlightment, ballistic and soon-to-be kageboshi) don’t really give ninja more range, nor does the dps output of tiered stars even with their range really matter, especially when its so prone to dc issues.
Even then, ninja was not meant to be another dps class, rather meant to be used for it’s speed, whether to rush, or run through the realm.
Source? Also this is not how it turned out even if this was the case, Trickster is significantly better at rushing and always was. Also, like the last point, none of the best stars actually give speedy. Not to say speedy isnt useful, it is especially in o3, but it’s not the main reason to play ninja. A top-tier ninja is almost unbeatable in o3 top damage.
Nerfing enforcer would introduce a different playstyle than tier katanas, which is how UTs were supposed to be.
I don’t think you understand how this playerbase works, they are still just going to main enforcer only, and the smart ones have been carrying void blade + doku all this time anyway, thus no change to ninja playstyle or swapouts in the slightest. DPS brain go brrr
What ninja used to be in the past, or was meant to be originally does not matter. What matters is what ninja is currently and how people actually use it. Ninja’s position in the game has changed as it has gained new items. Old design priorities are no longer relevant in any way - nor should they be.
Gidey
#57
I do, actually. its pretty handy for a bit of oomph. Its also pretty handy due to the stars much higher range.
Kingsports
#58
My thoughts that no one asked for:
Cavern : Honestly looks pretty cool. Looks like it will be a more active and diverse fight. I hope we can expect to see t13 weapons drop here now or in the near future.
Ray : So basically a long range mura (t11)… Very glad they kept the consistent damage. Not a total joke and I might actually keep it as a swap for when wanting to play safe. Given it’s rarity and forge tier (no legendary mats- they mentioned they might change costs, but not material tiers), this feels fair.
Enforcer : I am of the opinion this either needed a small nerf or katanas in general needed a buff. I agree with some opinions I’ve seen that the total range should have just been nerfed instead of the gap increase 
. End of the day I don’t play ninja and not a lot of samurai so I don’t care that much, but I would hate if they increased the gap on corruption cutter or something, so I get it
Esben Staff : Frankly I see the change as a nerf. It’s not the best piercing staff by any stretch of the imagination now or before. The main draw for me was always the shot pattern allowing you to shoot around walls. If you want to make actually hitting the shots easier, just make it have normal staff shots so it keeps the same true range (basically a beam) or buff the damage/speed boost a bit.
Eruption : a little sad the wiggle is gone, but more range is always welcome.
Superior/lumi : I think it’s funny that these two got minor buffs when enforcer got a big nerf
Guidance : excited to spam maximum spawns on summoner on a more usable wand
Greatsword : this feels weird to me since the shield also has lower range
harp : it was honestly quite good before this. This is icing on the cake
crossfire : best clearing bow making a comeback? I’ll take it
tshot : very fun bow to use, mostly glad speed debuff is gone
No daggers touched? Interesting
Kage : makes the piercing matter, decent for clearing. I would rather have seen something more unique, but I’m glad it’s better at it’s “niche” now.
bstar : it’ll take a sec to relearn, but very welcome
Vile : Not sure I’ll use it over cave dweller, but glad it has armor piercing damage, not just a straight damage buff. Theoretically usable now.
Helms : basically just fixing. Good to see them addressed.
Aether : slightly harder to keep up permalyze, but I don’t think I’ll be very affected. W/e
requiem : I don’t feel this is enough range to make it usable yet, but at least the mask won’t be as monstrous
shadows : Awesome. That’s all
coin : I haven’t seen anyone say anything about this and it doesn’t seem big
Escutcheon : looks like it’ll work more consistently. Awesome
sealed skull : still a joke but ok
medusozoan : thank God.
plague : rather not mess with throw times, but at least it’s shorter, and I’ll take the extra att
mad cloak : too this is going under the radar. Ima be able to keep up armored basically permanently, and gives 8 def with the armored
lightshow : I don’t think this makes it worth as a preemptive swap for something like devastation yet unfortunately. I guess it does net you an extra targeting it’s own if you have a tiny window for damage.
ancient spell : uuuuh ok. I guess 2 spd is nice
tricorn: doesn’t matter b/c I’m cursed and I’ll never get it, but 2 dps helms now??? (Bee returns)
Lab robe : initially I was underwhelmed by an inferior shendyt, but the proc looks nuts, and makes for more interesting item combinations… May need to nerf a bit but I’m excited for this.
Ritual robe Who asked for this? 
But hey I’ll take it.
Wsilk : probably safest rushing robe now for non-priests(?) Sweet!
fire dragon : not op, but a welcome boost. Makes insta-ing sentinel (for a limited time) that much easier. 
Maybe lower the cooldown a bit?
resu : Holy ty. This is great. Keeps it’s gimmick, but much more usable, especially for newer/non-insane mheal players.
root armor : no longer a worse lod st armor. Very nice. Although mid-game fungal breastplate? Idk haha
leaf hide : weird mishmash of many stats-> a better nil. Cool? Hahaha. I think I’ll definitely use it as a main for like godlands-dungeon farming rogue.
shielding : seemed fine to me, but others seem to think think this was needed, so sure.
turncoat : I’ve been sleeping on this guy. I feel like this makes the item (and in turn monocle) far more viable on anything other than a true permacloak rogue (and obv min-maxing spd).
nil : lmao I guess they are trying
coronation : alright, fine. It’s a good dps ring 
. Definitely was the weakest of the 03 accessories, so cool!
banner : more consistent buffs? Very nice
hat : still not good, but fun change
sphinx : yoooooo. Easily best tomb ring now imo.
bloodshed : feels much more on par statistically w/potato and sourcestone. Nice.