Replace the Unbound rings from Oryx 3 with Deca Ring


#21

You completely dodged the question.

Whether the tiered rings are good, bad, or made of pizza is completely irrelevant.

The hardest dungeon in the game should drop deca rings.


#22

The original premise was that the top tiered items would not offer much power over the next highest tier, thus keeping new players on a nearly even playing field as the long term players, with the game emphasize on skill. Of course that went away anyhow with the pet-abilities release, but still, the highest tiered items should exponentially decay instead of grow, to limit the disparity between the top players and lower tiered players. That was, at least, one of the original 4 principals of rotmg design from Wild Shadow days.

Edit: this is in response to:

And just to elaborate, the highest tier was always meant as more of a vanity tier, that’s why old WC tops (before the ability buffs) were barely better than the “Old Tops”. Even when I returned to playing after several years, I was pretty surprised to see that ability buff to WC tops… It just furthers the divide for new players.


#23

@Toastrz It can be difficult to speak much with a former peer group once you’ve transitioned to a more professional setting, I’ve come to learn from sad experience. I know this is unrelated to the formal discussion, but I’d like to ask (and choosing not to answer at all is more than acceptable, due to the potentially controversial nature of such inquisition): Have you enjoyed working with DECA through these delightfully torrential years, or have you ever wished, sometimes, that you could join the players in all of our (innocence? ignorance?) simplicity of life, sometimes? I’m sure being simultaneously cursed with knowledge and fame could potentially be a drudge; the game still wouldn’t be the same under an alternate account with everything you know, even if nobody recognized you.
I guess the “enjoying DECA” is poorly phrased, as both statements could potentially be accurate. Rather, would you revert your actions with what you do now given the choice, or are you satisfied, pleased to serve us, the community?
This is awkward… sorry…


#24

no. we need t7 rings.


#25

We considered it, but based on my initial answer, did not feel it would be the right move in consideration of the full endgame. Piling on as many top level drops as possible into the latest endgame is tempting, but can very well backfire when it trivializes the incentive for other endgame content. That leads to a centralization issue that plagued the Lost Halls for a while, where it’s pretty much the only thing an endgame player has any motivation to run.

That’s a big part of why unbound ring drop locations were trimmed down a little while ago, among other tiered items. Even LH tops with T13 weapons and T14 weapons, while they do drop from sanctuary minibosses, are very uncommon by comparison and more of a rare bonus than something one would use as the primary source. We feel that Oryx’s Sanctuary has an abundance of new, exclusive drops to hold it up on its own merit, without stepping too hard on the toes of the late/endgame content preceding it.

“Barely better” may even be an understatement, given that they were mostly just T5 copies with +2 VIT and WIS, completely useless amounts of those stats even in a pre-pet era. Lots of principles from the game’s earliest versions unfortunately struggle to hold up in the long term. When you get an item from the hardest challenge available with virtually identical strength to an item you can get from the Undead Lair, it becomes unsatisfying and not worth chasing.

A classic set back then was a T10 weapon, T5 ability, T11 armor, and T4 ring. The difference between this set vs. a set of WC tops was practically intangible, but dramatically easier to acquire, leading to low risk characters who had very little loot of merit to seek. It was never going to be sustainable if the game ever wanted to have content harder than the Wine Cellar.

That doesn’t mean the opposite is good either, they shouldn’t have huge leaps, but they should more generally match the difficulty of obtaining that tier. We feel the rebalance to the top three tiers of weapons/armors and the revision of tiered ability progression a little while back matches this more adequately. An O3-tier item isn’t life-changingly stronger than its LH top predecessor, but it can be felt, making it worth seeking for a little more than pure bragging rights.


#26

This.
It would be stupid to continue increasing the game’s difficulty without items to match it.


#27

@Toastrz: Your opinion to this? Buff Tiered Rings

You mentioned that Nevov made the topic of “tiered HP/MP progression does not make sense” a while back, I think nerfing UBMP/HP could fix the economy but it will anger a lot players who only uses UBHP rings.

Right now Para HP worths a def, but then Exa worths 4x more than that. UBHP costs 8 lives!!! Hello? The current economy on HP rings are just, broken and illogical. How could Exa to UB cost 8 times more Lives???


#28

A zseal is worth a def. A gcookie is worth 6+ life.
There’s a huge demand for top-tier tradeable items, for there is such a limited selection of tradeable goods that only the highest strength tradeable items are consistently bought and sold.
Especially in a world where running endgame dungeons is infinitely more profitable than running midgame dungeons, providing your characters the highest serviceability maximizes how fast/much you can run these endgame dungeons, leading to much more profit than the small investment of a few more life potions.

On the surface, ubhp is 8x more expensive than exahp, but in the long run, that extra 40 hp may save your decked out 8/8 character(which is worth much more than 1 or 10 life) a few times.


#29

This is why I buy old tops instead. Meanwhile Royal Waki cost only 1 Life…

Yep, this is why I will never buy HP rings again (I sell them instead whenever I got them).

I don’t care it increases my survivability, this “I would only wear HP ring, period” sentiment is utter nonsense. However the only time I would use HP ring is for max HP build Melee for defeating O3.

This is why I said buff tiered Rainbow rings to make them more desirable to use.


#30

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I do still tend to disagree, that the highest tier items should be mainly cosmetic differences, but I can see where that’s changed with the advancement of the end-game content. However, players in rotmg quickly attain the highest tier items, and the power will likely soon be noticed throughout realm events and oryx/o2, in a negative way for other lower end and newer players.

I hope the leaps are limited a bit more, they still seem to be leaning towards a strong power dive, but I’m glad to hear you don’t think they should have huge leaps… I do feel the WC tops ability jump was too much, but again I lean towards lower power top-tier items.

Anyhow, I understand, but also think it’s important to point out that there is the growing competition of top tier and UT items to ST sets, which furthers the divide to new players even more. Again, going slightly off topic, but I truly despise the amount and power of current ST sets in the game. They’re fun to play sure, but the simplicity and some strange nostalgic feeling from collecting items in rotmg is gone from playing (for me at least, I used to like to collect all the items, now that is unrealistically time consuming and costly in at the least, vault space and character slots). It’s just lost some of that charm with all these ST sets. Edit: Just to add to this point, white bags aren’t exciting for me anymore at all, and I have no real care to look-up all the UTs even - it’s just not worth it to me with so many at such rarities.

One last thing, I had this idea for “cleaning” up the nexus, by basically switching the power-enhancing items that are in nexus with the clothes and dyes in the bazaars. I feel like getting all the p2w style content out of new players immediate view on joining the game will also help with player retention. Anyhow that note is totally off topic, but I’ve always considered that an issue (nexus just looks like a shop, and new players don’t even really know that they lose those items when they die with them, it’s just poor design choice considering new players background knowledge of the game may be zero).


#31

Yeah, I’d like to get DECA to put ALL the buyable content in bazaars.


#32

I can understand the thought behind this, but I think that O3 does centralize the game.

If you’re dying consistently to O3, you will not have characters to spare for halls.

Right now you’re basically forced to choose halls or O3 (unless you’re a total 0/8 halls leech).

In addition, the vast majority of O3 items are directly superior to halls.

Finally, dude it’s 10 extra hp. The fact that the only place to get a deca ring (which has been duped to high heaven by the way) is from random crystals in the crystal cave (with a drop rate comparable to jugg) is just sad.

I mean excuuuuuuuuuuse me for thinking 10 extra hp wouldn’t break the game.


#33

Hes not saying that it would break the game. There’s a delicate balance between difficultly/kill rate vs loot. At the moment, lost halls and o3 have the highest perceived high-tier item/min(which is justified, for they are supposed to be the hardest dungeons right now and have multiple endgame item sets as drops), but still there are a few items in other endgame dungeons that mass a following of people to run them.

O3 is stealing a ton of attention away from all of the other endgame dungeons right now because of the new tops and overtuned whites(along with new dungeon hype, granted). The rest of your post acknowledges this… so why buff sanctuary’s loot table when it is already so popular?