[RotMG] How a Game Developer Let Cheaters Take Over Realm of the Mad God

[DeIusional]

“Wow, you’re using a function in the game! You’re supporting duping!”
This is just retarded logic, and trying to call Sebchoof out for it is not a winning argument at all.
Again, we’ve already talked about this above, why do you keep bringing this up?
Why do you have to call him a “joke”? He’s done more for the community than bitch about melees being unpowered.

[Backpedal]

Good thing im trying to combat this issue and because of this im not going to bother to reply to silly comments like these anymore

If you wanted to combat the issue you wouldn’t use duped items.

No I want some trading to continue.

I want decas to be around to trade and store wealth and use on chars.

You want the economy to be completely destroyed. An economy you have benefitted from.

It’s just reality. If there were no dupers you would not have been able to use any of those decas.

There have to be some positive changes that support a healthy economy.

As it stands the reality is that the duped economy is the only economy.

Why do you have to call him a “joke”?

It’s very simple. He’s been taking advantage of a system that has supplied him with decas, pixies, etherites, and other additional items.

Now he turns around and tells new players “I’ve been using these items for a long time but don’t worry I’m going to try and ban all these items so you can’t use them in the future”.

[DeIusional]

No, when we he’s buying a deca, he’s thinking “I’m buying a deca with life”, not “I’m supporting the duping economy!!”.

You want the economy to be completely destroyed. An economy you have benefitted from.

By that logic, you’ve also benefited from the economy, and also want the economy to be destroyed.

Have you tried using your own logic on yourself and see how hypocritical you are?

[Sebchoof]

Just ignore him hes clearly just seeking attention

[Backpedal]

No, when we he’s buying a deca, he’s thinking “I’m buying a deca with life”, not “I’m supporting the duping economy!!”.

If he’s been playing for 5+ years he has to have known.

[RMGnoob]

Some of you are paying too much attention and effort on this stuff lol

I wonder if you realize that this response, along with “you guys should talk about [insert other problem this game has here] instead” are the two most common reactions we’ve gotten from cheaters over the years.

Deflection isn’t an argument.

there is also always the option to not play the game

Why should the people who actually enjoy this game for what it is stop playing it and leave it to the cheaters, that is to say the people who don’t actually want to play it?

Your logic is backwards here.

As for the hackers, I doubt they care as well

They wouldn’t be spending this much time trying to defend themselves if they truly didn’t care.

Especially falsely flagging Seb’s vid shows there’s at least one person genuinely getting salty.

Also, if anyone has any experience or knowledge on how to prevent or undo troll copyright takedowns please message me because I am in desperate need of help

Don’t think there’s much that can be done other than reposting the vid on multiple platforms as well as having other people mirror it on their own accounts.

I don’t believe you can get people banned from Youtube for abusing copyright claims but you can still try.

As it stands the reality is that the duped economy is the only economy.

There was an in-game economy before duping blew up so I don’t see why there couldn’t still be one after we get rid of it.

If duping wasn’t around to keep the global amount of STs and Decas high, then maybe players would start making more of a fuss about the abysmal drop rates making these items p2win, which in turn could pressure Deca into making things more fair.

You say it would destroy the game, I say it’d be an improvement.

[Backpedal]

If duping wasn’t around to keep the global amount of STs and Decas high, then maybe players would start making more of a fuss about the abysmal drop rates making these items p2win, which in turn could pressure Deca into making things more fair.

People stopped making a fuss about drop rates long ago.
People vehemently defend the low drop rates of event whites.
People were ok with Deca slowly watering down event chests.
People were ok with the pet skin feedpower nerfs.

Honestly the playerbase has taken a lot of blows I have doubts about their ability to pressure the devs.

At the end of the day I believe recovery is vital.

If a player can die, get back up again on their feet, and get into the events they will stick around.

For newer players buying items from the economy is so crucial.

[Wilhuff]

I have yet to see anyone get a deca from a fungal crystal.

You ought to try looking harder.

[Backpedal]

Yeah they stated that the deca ring drops so I’m sure someone will get it.

Of course we don’t know the drop rates.

But this is exactly what I’m talking about. There needs to be more ways to recover items.

Up until fungal there was no way to get decas naturally from the game excluding few and far between events.

A large portion of people quit because they say “I died with X and cannot recover it”.

Rather than try to ban the dupers, they can make it not profitable or less profitable to dupe items.

And if the dupers are out of the picture, I see no reason why ut items cannot be tradeable.

[Wilhuff]

That screenshot was from 9 days ago.

[Ashlei]

Lol I’m not deflecting anything, nor am I pointing out other issues, although I could. I’m simply saying that this is only a game and not only you will quit it one day but also everything in here only exists so much in game, they only matter to you as much as this game. And if this game matters you so much then you should take it easy and chill lol, after all you are just grinding for artificial items in an artificial world with artificial value, created by the developers over the years, for you it might be wonderful but for them it’s just a tool to generate revenue, if you haven’t thought of that after years of playing.

And exactly how many cheaters can you spot on defending themselves on this post? I can maybe guess around 2 or 3, however, the comment section of this post is generally composed of a few people who disagrees with each other and argues back and fourth. Consider the amount of people who use and checks forums, the amount of people who posts stuff, and the amount of players there is, I feel like most probably doesn’t even notice or care. And the fact that many discord servers such as pub halls and shatters have made hackers neutral should also tell a thing or two regarding what the majority feels about them.

I will admit to you that hacked client players does make lost halls or shatters runs smoother, for perhaps they can hit a switch or enemies behind a wall or or have high DPS due to auto aim, high DPS especially helps lost halls runs. While some will definitely not accept this at all because it makes the game easier, others won’t. In fact, others will enjoy this because that means they can do runs faster and safer, they enjoy being a free rider. And honestly, I’m gonna argue that most people in the game cares about loot a lot more than the actual run or dungeon experience.

Again, the reason why I’m suggesting that hackers don’t care about the game is because they are willingly to take the risk of getting their account banned or stolen than dying and playing legitimately, which doesn’t seems to be a very rational choice, of course you could argue that they do this because they think they won’t get caught or stolen, but that’s also speculation.

[Backpedal]

And the fact that many discord servers such as pub halls and shatters have made hackers neutral should also tell a thing or two regarding what the majority feels about them.

I think this is a key fact.

This is exactly the message I’m trying to convey.

I believe most people like doing large group runs and don’t care whether the rl is cheating or not as long as he or she can lead them to victory.

I believe most people don’t think about trading and are happy that they can get some sweet decas.

Again, the reason why I’m suggesting that hackers don’t care about the game is because they are willingly to take the risk of getting their account banned or stolen than dying and playing legitimately doesn’t seems to a very rational choice

Makes perfect sense to me.

[Ashlei]

I do agree with what you are saying, buying decas is creating a demand for them and thus the suppliers which includes the dupers will have the incentive to dupe. But of course there isn’t much that can be done about it because you can’t just expect people to not buy them because it’s “bad” for the game lol, most RotMG players will do what benefits them, simple as that, just to a different extent I guess.

If deca rings weren’t mass duped then there sure wouldn’t be over 200 offers to sell them on realmeye, considering that not all offers are posted on realmeye.

But I myself on the other hand, will openly admit that I benefited from the duping of decas because it really helps me to store wealth, I don’t have all the vault space or many mules to store my pots, so I trade them for decas and then resell them again when I need pots to max. And the fact that there are so many decas for sale makes it so that I don’t have to spend hours in USW2 to buy one.

[Backpedal]

You’re exactly right. We can’t go around banning players because they obtained deca rings from trades.

That’s why they need to adopt a more proactive solution to duping.

Because if all those 200 deca offers were to disappear overnight I think that would just upset the playerbase.

Fungal is a step in the right direction for sure.

I think that tokens and quest chest should also become unbound to help spread around uts.

They could also put the legacy sts sets back in the drop table.

[RMGnoob]

And if this game matters you so much then you should take it easy and chill lol,

“lmao you talking about this means you’re taking this too seriously”

Considering how you’re also participating in this conversation, does that mean I could respond the exact same thing to you?

See how that’s a dumb argument?

Also if it’s “just a game” and doesn’t matter, shouldn’t that mean there’s even less of a reason to cheat?

after all you are just grinding for artificial items in an artificial world with artificial value

hacked client players does make lost halls or shatters runs smoother

I’m gonna argue that most people in the game cares about loot a lot more than the actual run or dungeon experience.

One moment you’re saying none of this matters, the next you’re saying farming and getting loot are important enough to warrant going the extra mile of cheating for it.

So which one is it then?

for you it might be wonderful but for them it’s just a tool to generate revenue, if you haven’t thought of that after years of playing.

… what

I’m playing a game because I enjoy it and I have free time. I see people who can’t enjoy this game without hacks and I’m just wondering why they don’t just leave and find a game that’s better suited to their tastes.

It’s really that simple.

[Textbook]

Lol I’m not deflecting anything, nor am I pointing out other issues, although I could. I’m simply saying that this is only a game and not only you will quit it one day but also everything in here only exists so much in game, they only matter to you as much as this game. And if this game matters you so much then you should take it easy and chill lol, after all you are just grinding for artificial items in an artificial world with artificial value, created by the developers over the years, for you it might be wonderful but for them it’s just a tool to generate revenue, if you haven’t thought of that after years of playing.

I dislike this argument in general, because you can just sum up most things in life like this. Technically everything in the world has an artificial value (either monetary or sentimental); additionally, everything in the world we know will disappear eventually, if not when the Sun grows in size and engulfs the Earth, but in the eventual heat death of the universe. Life is what we make of it, and everyone has different interests. For some, it is a video game. And if someone loves a certain video game as a hobby, and wants it to be the best possible, who are you to stop them? Why are you policing what someone can or can’t enjoy based off of your own personal beliefs?
A typical job is also a tool to generate revenue for the higher-ups in that company. A car is a tool to generate revenue for car companies. Music is a tool to generate revenue for musicians. Your argument, I find, is rather empty and relies more on emotion to try and convince the individual that they are wrong for caring so much about a silly game. But why do you care so much that they care about a silly game? Let them have their enjoyment.

And exactly how many cheaters can you spot on defending themselves on this post? I can maybe guess around 2 or 3, however, the comment section of this post is generally composed of a few people who disagree with each other and is arguing back and fourth, consider the amount of people who use and checks forums, the amount of people who posts stuff, and the amount of players there is, most probably doesn’t even notice or care. And the fact that many discord servers such as pub halls and shatters have made hackers neutral should also tell a thing or two regarding what the majority feels about them.

If we assume the RealmEye forums is a sample of the community, and only 2-3 hackers are defending themselves in such a large thread, I think that says enough about the percentage of hackers compared to the percentage of legitimate players. Additionally, given that the forums greatly encourage well-thought out discussion and community creations, I think that, as I have stated before, this is much more suitable as the backbone of the community than a group of people who think “let’s go take down a content creator’s video because it is funny to do so/I don’t like that they are calling me out” is appropriate.
I will concede that pub halls is currently the largest RotMG Discord server. However, the official RotMG Discord server is relatively close behind, as the second-largest RotMG Discord server, and this server has a strict anti-cheating policy. Additionally, on this server, the feedback presented by Mrunibro, linking Sebchoof’s video as part of the feedback, became the highest voted feedback on the Discord server in just a day’s time. It reached 100, then 200 votes at record pace, faster than any of the other feedback on the server (including major questions the Realm community has had regarding the game, such as including backpack when it comes to trading, and framerate issues in-game).
I think that tells a thing or two about what the majority feels about this problem!

I will admit to you that hacked client players does make lost halls or shatters runs smoother, for perhaps they can hit a switch or enemies behind a wall or or have high DPS due to auto aim. While some will definitely not accept this at all because it makes the game easier, others won’t. In fact, others will enjoy this because that means they can do runs faster and safer, they enjoy being a free rider. And honestly, I’m gonna argue that most people in the game cares about loot a lot more than the actual run or dungeon experience.

But does the value of the loot not lower if you do not have to risk anything to obtain it? Imagine dying so many times, getting more and more skilled with every hour you play of the game, until your hard work finally pays off and you get a Ring of Omnipotence.
And then imagine that some cheater just kind of hacked their way through dungeons, never at risk of dying, just going through the numbers again and again, until they got one. Then they procede to dupe the item so they have 5.
If most people in the game care about loot, like you said, this is a major upset. In fact, it’s a major enough upset to make people quit the game.

Again, the reason why I’m suggesting that hackers don’t care about the game is because they are willingly to take the risk of getting their account banned or stolen than dying and playing legitimately, which doesn’t seems to be a very rational choice, of course you could argue that they do this because they think they won’t get caught or stolen, but that’s also speculation.

I think the lack of risk they see is most definitely a motivator, and this falls on Deca as they should have taken action on cheaters when given the evidence, yet they did not. That’s why a lot of players are upset about the lack of action from Deca.

Replying to Backpedal:

I believe most people like doing large group runs and don’t care whether the rl is cheating or not as long as he or she can lead them to victory.

I don’t think this means that action should not be taken on cheaters. Legitimate players can do the same, and for anything a legitimate RL can’t do, that only a cheating RL can do, then you could argue that’s ill-gotten loot (and does that not cause imbalance in the game? if a group with a cheating RL has such an inherent advantage over the group with the legitimate RL)

I believe most people don’t think about trading and are happy that they can get some sweet decas.

I’ll be honest, I don’t really think too much about where the item comes from when I’m doing a trade, unless it’s from like some super sketchy guy with more Decas than I have money in my savings account.
I’m also not too active in terms of trading and such, so I can’t say too much about the effects of these ToS-violating services on the player-run economy in large scale.
However, I can safely say that such ToS-violating services like duping and RWT are not healthy for the game. Duping for obvious reason (loot has less value if you can exploit the game to get 5 of a very rare item while I as a legitimate player could only get 1 in the same amount of time). RWT, also for obvious reason because the game developers are not seeing this money and it offsets the entire intended balance of the game (“I could farm up rainbow pots to trade for life pots and then finally buy a pixie for my warrior, or I could use the third-party site to get one by pulling out my credit card” (I do know there’s a big flaw in this argument, because of mystery boxes, but I also very highly disagree with putting STs in mystery boxes, just that’s a tale for another time. Also I mean at least the devs see your money if you use your wallet powers on mystery boxes rather than RWT sites…))

You’re exactly right. We can’t go around banning players because they obtained deca rings from trades.
That’s why they need to adopt a more proactive solution to duping.
Because if all those 200 deca offers were to disappear overnight I think that would just upset the playerbase.

I don’t think that’s what anyone is claiming will actually happen if Deca cracks down on cheating… That’s just a silly exaggeration. The damage has already been done there. But they can work on solutions for the future, keeping the duped stock in mind, if there won’t be any further income of duped items (maybe a bit optimistic, as this hinges on all duping methods being patched forever, but at the very least taking action against people/sites selling these and patching methods as soon as possible makes the situation a lot less volatile.)

[Ashlei]

Um, talking about it doesn’t mean I take it too seriously, I’ve quit the game so there isn’t really much about that, plus it’s not like I’m getting super emotional about stuff, I’m just trying to spit out a few things that I have believed and have came to a conclusion after years of playing and observing, you can disagree with me.

They don’t matter to me anymore, loots and grinding, since I’ve quit, but they matter to those who still plays, that’s what I’m saying

As for enjoyment, they are games out there that are developed by the developers not just for pure revenue but also by some cool developers who dedicates it for the enjoyment of players, sadly RotMG isn’t really one

[RMGnoob]

Um, talking about it doesn’t mean I take it too seriously, I’ve quit the game so there isn’t really much about that, plus it’s not like I’m getting super emotional about stuff, I’m just trying to spit out a few things that I have believed and have came to a conclusion after years of playing and observing

I’m the exact same though, so why am I “taking this too seriously” and you’re not?

They don’t matter to me anymore, loots and grinding, since I’ve quit, but they matter to those who still plays, that’s what I’m saying

you are just grinding for artificial items in an artificial world with artificial value,

So “none of it matters”, but “it matters to them and you should respect them for it” at the same time?

Again: makes no sense.

As for enjoyment, they are games out there that are developed by the developers not just for pure revenue but also by some cool developers who dedicates it for the enjoyment of players, sadly RotMG isn’t really one

So why bother cheating in this game when there are better ones made by better people that you could enjoy playing legitimately?

I’ve had this conversation many times over the years and it always ends the same way because you guys couldn’t make a coherent argument to save your lives.

[Ashlei]

1. The very base that my argument about this is based on is that RotMG, as a video game, is not real, you then shouldn’t take this argument to an extreme and argue the same about life and universe, I mean, how can you compare and say that simulation and real life is equal? The scope of these two things are different, I argue that real life is more important than RotMG because it is broader and will exist longer, so by over committing yourself you do waste time perhaps?

Many gamers, especially those addicted will also argue that “because you will die eventually and so why is it bad to spend life in a game?” And the answer is that because you aren’t maximizing your life to its full potential. In addition, the main stream of society is typically against this type of behavior, furthermore, if you had viewed something like this from a perspective outside the game then you will see that it doesn’t make sense. But then if you were to argue deeper it would of course turn into an metaphysical argument

The reason I am proposing this is because a lot of people don’t play this game just as a hobby but instead plays it as a way to escape real life issues, or get addicted. I have known many RotMG players who got their educations or career opportunity screwed up because of it.

2. The problem is that RealmEye forum is not exactly an accurate sample of the community when it comes to legit players vs hackers, because hackers themselves are unlikely to post on the forums, sure, a few might bother defending themselves but the majority doesn’t want others to know that they are a cheater, they probably just want to play their game quietly and unnoticed.

The official RotMG discord does have a strict anti-cheating policy, but that doesn’t stop cheaters from joining it, since the server is also mostly being used for game updates, events, and social, it has little to do with in game playing so we do not know how many cheaters exist there, and I’m sure most hacked client users won’t be stupid enough to post a screenshot of themselves using hacks.

While 100 to 200 votes might seem large, compared to the total player base is still pretty small, so if you want it to have a big impact on the community then it’s gotta be a lot better than that.

3. The issue is that a lot of realmers don’t care about the value of the loot based on how hard they worked, end game players are not the majority after all, if it takes a bunch of hackers to be in a raid to complete a lost halls in the safer and easier way, a lot of people will do it! Not everyone is actually good at the game, so perhaps they don’t actually have the skill or money(Divine Pet) necessary to get an omni, but they still want an omni, so what do they do? They turn to hacks or people who use hacks.

And dying so many times or just perma death itself is what makes a lot of people quit or turn them to using hacks, there are so many uncontrollable factors such as lag or visual obstacles that causes death. There are legit players who used to be against hacking but ended up using hacks because they are tired of getting insta popped or lagged to death and losing their jugg or ogmur again.

As for dupers, given the current game, and how Deca is quite strict against duping and made it almost impossible, dupers exists only in very small quantity now, those who knows how to dupe keeps the method to themselves.

These are just my conclusion after years of playing, you can disagree if you want

[Ashlei]

Why does it not make sense? I’m not talking about it on my behalf, but merely pointing out something about what other RotMG players thinks or believes, on their perspective, they like the game and enjoy grinding for artificial items, simple as that

I don’t cheat in this game, why would you just assume that I do because I disagreed with you lol? I however was in a guild that had a lot of hackers, but they were nice people and I had a good time there. In my RotMG experience, it’s not the cheaters that bothers me more, since it’s not PVP, but the people who are toxic, and I have encountered a lot of toxic legit players.

To your last response, I don’t know, perhaps people enjoy cheating in this game because they can? There aren’t many MMORPG games out there that are easy to cheat and has advanced hacks like RotMG. While a lot of cheaters have left the game, there are always new comers. In addition, perhaps they simply don’t care enough so they cheat, if they get banned, cool, they would just leave the game.