Seperating UT powers by tiers

#1

Alright, Mephisto. You dun convinced me.

I was a huge advocate for side-expansion; expansion that everybody could enjoy, but after the latest release, I noticed that this can’t go on forever. Higher tiers are gonna pop for end-game players, whether I’m going to use it or not.

So what’s this thread about? Well, I happen to like reviewing Ideas, but my reference has always been the WC tops, but if the tops are going to keep changing, then they obviously are not a good way to check balances. It’s like saying poison fang dagger is underpowered, when if we compare it to T5/6, it’s really good. Or like comparing Sprite wand to T12+s when its intended power tier is T9.

New UTs are definitely going to come up, which is balanced over the newer tiers which is inevitable. That’s why I feel the need to seperate our UTs with Tiers. Ironic, huh?

My proposed Tier is;

  1. UT1, poison fang dagger, snake skin stuff, etc.
  2. UT2, Sprite wand, Ammy, coral ring, etc.
  3. UT3, Csword, condu, EP, Expo, etc.
  4. UT4 Fulmi, CC, etc.
  5. UT5 Wand of Fallen, Planewalker, etc.
  6. UT6 Ctrap, DBow, Ogmur, QoT, etc.
  7. UT7 Jugg, Marble Seal, etc.
    Of course, these tiers to the untiereds can be expanded,or divided further as needed.

What are your thoughts?

Edit: Droppin tiers as proposed

Is there a reason that low-tier UTs are soulbound?
#2

ST btw

meh, dont really mind the idea i guess

#3

Well, to be fair, STs are going to eventually be overshadowed. Perhaps UT1-7 isn’t exactly the best name for it… I want to call it early, mid, late, etc. but It’s going to change as the game expands as well. Erm… Power Tier, perhaps?

#4

honestly i think UT1 - UT7 would probs be the best i could come up with anyways, wasnt critising the name

honestly the more i look at this idea the more i see how good it would be in the game…

#5

UTs don’t need a tier system, they are either useful or not useful. They are often situational items that work best (even compared with new tops) in 1 situation only and are not great otherwise.
Jugg is still excellent, Ogmur is still excellent, QoT is still excellent, Oreo is still excellent, Shatter whites are still excellent. A small increase in the overall game damage/defense/etc won’t break the game or make these items useless.

#6

Ok i back this up and this is the 3rd time ive changed my mind xD

#7

I like this idea, it could bring a sense of order to the inconsistent fame% and feedpower (and drop rates?) that we currently have, by making all UTs of the same group have the same numbers instead of the all-over-the-place current situation.

And for the same reason that they added the tier number onto item descriptions (for tiered items), it would help make it instantly easily understandable and quantifiable as how good a UT item is, seeing an UT1 or an UT5 label would give that same knowledge to casual players as to how rare/replacable the item was. AKA Don’t Feed Your Jugg You Lucky Newb.

#8

True, but the more the game expands, these items are going to start getting outclassed. For example, the Csilk which used to trade a little dex for spd is going to be further outclassed the more we go down the road, just like how Snake Skin Hide is outclassed by Csilk. Condu is debatably outclassed by Fallen, etc.

Jugg, Ogmur, and QoT are arguably OP for their current state, but the more the game progresses, the UTs which are balanced to the new tiers are going to catch up with them.

Besides, this is only for review purposes. After all, I shouldn’t review a UT around Sprite Wand level while comparing it to Fallen, etc.

#9

I’m sad to know that this actually happened… not with me, but you’ve read it too. An ogmur too!

#10

Wait, are you proposing this for inclusion in the game or only for the sake of discussion on the forums?

#11

Well, it’s also a way for players to their UT’s power, I suppose. A UT7 would understandably be more powerful than UT5, so they won’t feel obligated to get the new UTs. I suppose it’s like having tiers to normal equipment. Say that my current tier is 7, so I should aim for 8 and above.

If nothing else, then as Nevov has said, it’ll put some UTs powers into context, besides FP and Fame Bonus, which can be all over the place.

#12

Er, what is the point? Its completely arbitrary and subjective. E.g. I would say EP is one of the most OP items, give staff classes massive DPS, if they can stand the zero range. DBow also. Ogmur is far less essential – a Knight does enough damage that armour break makes little difference, and stun is more useful.

That’s just my view, maybe, but that’s the point. There’s no objective way to compare and rate them, and no benefit to doing so.

#13

True, some UTs like EP is going to take a while to catch up. However, UTs like Spirit Dagger, which has more feed than EP, is already starting to play catch up with the new T13 dagger, and naturally, another expansion to t14 some time in the future, and the difference in damage is only a measly 5. I’m just saying that some UTs may be naturally stronger from others, and separating some of the UTs by tiers may give better insight to their power.

#14

Well… Ut’s are supposed to be untiered because they have different play styles than the tiered items. You can’t just say that DBow is better than fulmi, or that the fplate(one of the best armours in the game) is worse than EP. They are (supposed to be) different and unique. Of course, there are some exceptions like poison fang dagger.

#15

The thing is the only person who can choose what is the best UT is the player themselves. Tiered items work because they have a damage and stat increase and normally nothing else.

However UTs are widely different and unique. I can see tiering the lower level ones such as poison dagger and sprite wand but the higher levels are certainly debatable

(I really should read other peoples posts before I post e_e I see this has already been said.)

#16

I mean it’s called untiered for a reason…

#17

I like this idea, although I don’t agree with your tiers.

I say T7 should be god-level items that completely make a class much better (which Jugg does) so Ogmur and QoT should be dropped a tier. Or, maybe move Jugg up to a new tier, Tier 8.

As a person that has seen close friends use Ogmur and obtained QoT themselves, I don’t think they are necessarily on the same class as Jugg. I’m not saying they’re bad, just think that Jugg is better.

QoT is undoubtedly a nice UT (FML I LOST MINE AGHHHH), being basically the equivalent of a long range stun. (use it on Malphas or a Sarc and you’ll see what I mean) Ogmur’s Armor Break is very helpful in situations where there is a high-def tanky enemy difficult to kill (Shatters switches for example, Ogmur helps a lot) but I think that these two are too situational to be on the same class as Jugg. Jugg can be used to literally replace a tiered helmet. Ogmur replacing Colo and QoT replacing Elvish just don’t seem as viable.

Next, I just want to propose that EP actually isn’t that good. The main uses are for chests/stationary non-hazardous enemies, but generally these won’t be situations that a normal staff couldn’t solve. Shatters switches and the like are the only places where I see EP as actually being very useful. I’m not hating on EP, I love it and it’s fun to use (gotten me killed twice now lmao) but I think it should be classed with CSword tier.

#18

EP’s not just for stationary, non-hazardous enemies. My favourite use for it is Constructs: combined with an Electric pet or Ebsen Skull it’s easy to target them, though even without it just takes a little longer. Ideal in particular for Necro, as they have neither the high damage of a well-aimed spell or the ability to stasis a few, and can heal off them if they take some damage. It can be hard to destroy them otherwise, especially when there is a group of more than three of them.

Apart from that it can be equipped when rushing a dungeon, when you are not too worried about taking damage, not too bothered about aiming to take out particular enemies, but want to clear as many as you can.

All this assumes you are at 4/8 – def for getting in close, att and dex for doing most damage, spd for rushing. But this is true of any UT you can’t easily replace, wait until you have maxed some stats before using them.

#19

untiered tiers are quite the oxymoron

#20

At first this UT seperation sounded good… but Once I read some of the arguments i guess this is kinda like asking “which class is most OP?”, apart from with items… perhaps we should consider grouping them in uses, like survival-focused-UTs, dps-focused UTs, ect, rather then good UTs, bad UTs.