Should STs be SB?

#42

You’re right. I usually stop arguing with people once they resort to personal attacks.

#43

Yet you’re the one going on rants🤔 Give me a break dude. I’m not too sure why you’re being so defensive, it’s a game, calm down.

Can’t find an item? Too bad. Life isn’t fair.

Get. Over. It.

#44

I’m a troll for defending my standpoint? That’s strange.

#46

Fits perfectly actually, if you cannot find an item, life isn’t fair🤷‍♂️ Everything is rng based so you never know what you’ll find. I feel like you expanded a 10 word argument into an entire paragraph just to make your point seem more valid

#48

How? Pretty self explanatory.

No I didn’t lol

Uh oh, trying to use real world examples to explain your logic. Everything below this isn’t relevant. Just a bunch of big words.

#49

Trying to make other people feel stupid doesn’t win arguments.

Thank god. You haven’t covered any ground whatsoever. You tried, but it didn’t work. Bye.

#50

here’s what I’ve already said on the subject, here:

I would also like to add this:

just because an item is meant to be used with a full set doesn’t mean that it should be worthless without it. most people don’t have the time, space, luck, or money to amass the entire set, so that would leave them with this useless vanity item that you might as well not pick up. what we really need are items that are still okay alone, but still work best in the full set.

I cannot believe you just said that, the sword is absolute shit. I don’t care if the full set turned the helm into a jugg, that still wouldn’t convince me to use the set. I would honestly rather use an archon over indomptable. and if I’m just going to use an archon why not just grab an acclaim? you’re right about the focus on hp and spd, but such an important piece being so totally useless pretty much ruins the set as a whole.

#51

You’re on the same page as me. I would enjoy the game so much more if I could actually have fun and play what I wanted, rather than hoping to get lucky and making due otherwise.

I really agree on the Phylactery set; I’ve been hearing figures of several hundred ghost kings to drop the two pieces of the necromancer set which is pretty disappointing, because I would get far more than that in several hundred buffed liches. Speaking of okay alone and best in the full set, I think most of the Phylactery set fits that role. The staff has a slight edge over cosmic versus high defense enemies, but a shorter range and lower damage otherwise. The orb fills a very similar role as conflict, except one doesn’t require having amazing luck with drops. The robe is too good alone, but it’s not perfect… you do trade out offensive abilities for more defense. And the ring, despite what people say, really isn’t that bad.

I just wish I could actually try the unique playstyles enabled by some UTs and STs… even indomptable. But as it stands, it just feels like rotmg is inaccessible unless you’re willing to spend tons of time or money, as opposed to a game you can just step into and farm a bit before taking a break. I hope deca changes their philosophy, but I’m not hopeful. I’m tired of the duping scapegoat and players who don’t want control over their own items.

#52

No. Not being able to trade items, and everything being RNG is good for a lot of games, but those games don’t have permanent death. Currently you have to either put $200 into the game, or grind thousands upon thousands of a dungeon to be able to get it. UTs should stay soulbound, but STs shouldn’t. With STs you have to equip the whole set to get the full experience, but that’s impossible unless you can spend bucket loads of cash or grind mindlessly until you can finally get ONE piece of a four piece set.

Also, the whole ‘duping’ excuse is such a scapegoat. Duping isn’t even a tenth of what people make it out to be. And as for RWT, that should never be an excuse to sb items. If you really want to get rid of RWT sb anything T10 and up, that’ll get rid of RWT, but like 3/4 of the playerbase would quit.

#53

Pretty sure half of the realm doesn’t have permanent death either.

Not really. Deca need to make money to keep the game alive. It’s lovely that some F2P players have these opinions but the game only exists because it generates money. To do this certain items that have cash value to players are sold. If duping didn’t exist this mechanism would work fine with non-SB items. Sadly duping does exist so Deca have to protect their revenue generating assets.

I don’t get why people struggle to understand that as a F2P player of course it’s going to be harder, longer and more tedious; nor do I understand the moral outrage aimed at people keeping the game up and running by spending $100 on pixels.

#54

I’m going to address these points in aggregate, because my response to all of them is kind of the same thing. My main point is as follows:

#If certain pieces of the set are amazing on their own, then people will just cherry pick the pieces they want and forget the rest of the set. This leads to developers wasting their time developing items that will never be used.

This is the scenario we end up with if you make only certain pieces of the ST useful by their selves. If piece is the only thing that is useful in the ST set, I will just try and get a pierce and never use any of the other pieces. I may as well just have pierce as its own white bag and say screw the set. In my view, there shouldn’t even be any other pieces of the wizard set. There shouldn’t be a set at all. You just have 1 white bag worth item and 3 garbage pieces that should never have been made.

You can fix this in two ways:

  1. Buff each piece of every ST set so that each one is useable
  2. Make the set bonus so amazing that it surpasses what you could achieve in ONE niche area if you were to try to use an eclectic amalgamation of different individual pieces.

#Why buffing every ST set piece is not feasible
My issue with the first option is that I just don’t think it is feasible. There are going to be 15 ST sets. You are telling me that you can make 15 different ST rings that are going to be the best ring to use in a certain situation? Lets be honest. People only really use the best thing that is available for the most part. No one uses a T1-T10 sword if they can afford a T11. No one uses a T11 sword if they can afford a T12, unless they are concerned the character will die and maybe are using it as a throw-away. No one uses ExaMP or ExaSpeed. How can you honestly believe that you are going to make 15 different ST rings that are useable? You can’t. You won’t. If you think you can, then you should take control of this game, since to date, they haven’t been able to do it. DECA will always be the best ring on almost every class, aside from a few other UT rings. No one will ever use the coral ring or the geb ring or the wizard st ring.

If you accept the conclusion that you can’t make all the pieces useable, and if they aren’t going to be useable the devs shouldn’t waste time making them for the sole purpose of having a ST set, then the only way we can move forward is by making the set bonus so amazing that you WANT to use items that are otherwise unusable or just average.

#Buffing the set bonus will make people use the actual set
If you buff the set bonus and make the items garbage by themselves, people will WANT to have the whole set and won’t use individual pieces.

In effect, each individual piece will NEVER be the go-to choice by itself. There will always be white bags that are better than each piece. Once you have the whole set, the set makes a better overall stat grouping than any individual white bags could hope to achieve. For example, the warrior ST set would make you so good at rushing (ie. give you so much defense, so much speed, perhaps stop some kind of status effect such as slow or confuse when you have the whole set on) that it would be the go-to when you want to rush. It would be better than anything that ubhp, ubspeed, Jugg, Ggen, acrop, could ever hope to achieve. This way, you want the whole set, but not all the time, just for 1 specific situation, in this case rushing. In every other scenario, the set would be so useless that you wouldn’t really want to use it, as it would say, lack dps stat boosters or something, since the idea is to rush instead of to kill things.

If you don’t have this kind of scenario, then why have the set at all. Just make the one item that everyone is cherrypicking its own white bag and be done with it.

I’m not saying the dragon tamer set is good. I’m just saying that it AT LEAST keeps its theme. Every piece contributes to rushing in some way. It has the speed bonus, the health to let you keep rushing, and the sword is made to kill the trail of things that try and follow you. The paralyze stop things that get onto you as you rush by. Sure, the set pieces are garbage outside of rushing, but if it made you immune to slow and confuse and gave you a lot more defense (while you had the whole set on), I bet people would consider using it to rush instead of jugg and whatever other combination of UTs. Again. Why would I make it a themed set if there is no theme and no one uses it as a set.

Honestly, at this point, you could just scrap the whole ST item idea and just have more UTs. The only good thing ST sets are good for right now is matching colors, because the sets have no cohesiveness. No one ever uses the whole set, because you can just make a better combination of 4 different items to do a better job than the whole set does.

Just make pierce a white bag. Make indomptable a white bag. Make the dragon tamer helmet a white bag. Make etherite and the cloak a white bag. Make bearer a white bag. Make geb book a white bag. Make shendy and soulless white bags. etc etc. Get rid of all the garbage rings and garbage pieces that only exist to make it a “set.”

#My recommendations for STs:

  • Nerf them all individually so no one wants the individual pieces by themselves
  • Fine tune the sets to that each one has a purpose and fulfills that purpose better than any other combination items for that particular class
  • Buff the set bonuses substantially
  • Increase the drop rates so it is (relatively) easy to obtain all 4 pieces of the set
  • Make them all white bags
Is merching better than playing the game?
#55

I guess that the huge amount of mystery box exclusive skins and pet stones just isn’t enough.

Do you think they’ll have a jugg box soon? I’d spend $100 on that…

#56

I say unsoulbound all STs. This game is too dependent on RNG to have permadeath. It’s a little pixel shooter and the number of hours that are required to dump into it to collect every rare item and max every character is too large for such a small game. We need to either unsoulbound them or remove permadeath to balance the stakes. You can lose a character with all end-game items and 100,000 fame that could have literally taken dozens or hundreds of hours to obtain to a single lag spike. If DECA want to compete with RWT sites they would lower the gold prices of all items across the board and get rid of the mystery box casino. Why spend $100 on the mystery box for the chance of getting a single item when I could just by an entire set from ArushKaria for $8?

#57

I feel like you took what I said and then interpreted it in the context of being completely opposite to your own statement, which is not what I said.

what I said was that there’s a sweet spot where items aren’t shit when taken solo, but still work better when you have all 4. I am not saying that we should be making items that follow the path of shendyt, pierce, pixie, and so forth. what I am saying is that we shouldn’t turn around and follow the path of the forgotten ring, wand of geb, and the mantle of skuld. these items serve no purpose whatsoever, and making even more of them is probably just going to piss everyone off, especially if they’re all that the sets are made of.

so let me get this straight, you want to make every single st item in the game completely useless outside of the set. then, make them more powerful than any other UT set in the game for that class, and then on top of that make them more common? does this not sound like a horribly unbalanced idea? everyone who has the time to farm for all of the pieces (or let’s not forget, buy them) is awarded the hands-down best set for the class. why should I run lost halls and shatters if my best set drops from a god-fucking-damned cem? and everyone else, who hasn’t got the time, or money, or vault space just gets an assorted pile of completely useless trinkets.

you can’t make complete st sets “the best”, that fucks over pretty much everything that every other dungeon in the game is there for. you can make complete st sets that are new and different from typical class sets that are still fun to play. I don’t want more etherites, or soulless robes, or pixies, I want more “okay” items like zaarvox’s heart, ghastly drape, the phylactery, and nectar crossfire. there’s a middle ground here, and that’s what we should be aiming for.

#58

and that’s where the lack of complexity of the game is going to make your work a pain in the ass.

You can’t make a set that sacrifices Def or Hp for other stats. In a permadeath game, that’s just not worth it.

You can’t make a set that sacrifices DPS for other stats, except maybe Def or Hp. That would only make the game more boring for you solo and make it less likely for you to get good drops in groups.

So you’re going to be really limited in what you do, otherwise you’ll make items nobody will ever bother farming for and, even if they accidentally looted them, nobody would ever bother wearing.

#59

I think you should focus more on

It’s not like he says it should be ‘the best’ be all end all set. I think he meant it to be like how the dragon tamer is the best set for rushing no matter which combination can happens.

Though

is maybe not a really good thing, since its a white bag it should be kind of OK for it to be kind of situational item swap-out. Of course, it will depend on how much the drop rate is increased, if its too much then I guess it must be severely nerfed.

#60

Okay, I’ll give you that. I guess my point is that for most people, if it isn’t the best, they don’t use it. The difference between astral and cwhole is pretty marginal, but people don’t really use astral. I am arguing under the assumption that if it isn’t the best, it basically doesn’t get used. My logic then follows that if you don’t make an ST item the best (pierce, pixie, etc) it may as well be the worst (forgotten ring, ring of geb, etc.) because very few people will use it. I guess I am taking an extreme stance. Realistically, as long as the ST item is not the best, better than any white bag or any item you can buy, then I will be pretty satisfied with its balancing.

My primary balancing concern is making the set together so OP that it is better as a set than any other collection of UTs, at least for its specific task. I think the necro set does a good job of this. It does more damage against high defense enemies than any other necro set. Aside from this, the pieces aren’t THAT amazing, although I would like to see the robe’s attack stat nerfed and more of that moved into the set bonus for atk (which is already hefty).

The key here is they are not the BEST at everything. Just one specific thing. For example, the necro is a healing class. Not a DPS class. At least primarily. The necro ST set gives them a ton of DPS, a secondary job of the necro. I would like to see the necro set do more DPS than any other set of items on necro, yes. At the same time, DPS is not my primary objective of the necro. Like I said, you are a healer. I would make the defenses on the ST set very low, and since you don’t have the healing, you are trading a ton of survivability for a ton of dps. There is a tradeoff.

Same thing with the warrior ST set. You are super good at rushing, but overall, your DPS sucks. You use the set as a swapout when you need to rush, then break out your LH or Shatters white set and use that to do the DPS boss fight at the end. It’s all about tradeoffs.

But who uses phylactery? Who uses sentient staff (which actually outputs more dps than cwhole. It’s just harder to aim).

#61

Maybe for you it does, it certainly doesn’t for me. Enjoy doing your 1000 Gkings for a measly ring.
If we include UTs, 1000 Labs for a Fulmi.

Sure, you can say “But you don’t need UTs to play with a class!”.

Then I’ll just point to Archer / Huntress, those two classes are basically not feasible without UTs.
That’s where my problem with the SB comes from. I don’t care much for Oreos/Conflict. But it irritates me that in order to have those two classes in particular that I am stuck doing tons of UDLs and OTs(which are pretty much impossible to get loot in).

#62

Boo freaking hoo. It’s rng dude, get over it. Don’t give me that “I worked really hard for it” bs, you aren’t handed the items whenever you want them, you gotta play the game and hope.

#63

You’re nasty dude, seriously.