So... Why is the Void a DPS Wall?


#1

Is this how endgame content is supposed to look like?

Here’s the thing, Lost Halls is currently THE endgame on RotMG, with arguably the best whites in the game, and that comes with the most risk in the game when it comes to risk:reward ratio, too.

However, there’s a problem that has been discussed some times before, and that’s The Void’s progress.

I’ve noticed this problem being more prominent during the Lost Halls events from both MotMG and Oryxmas.

There’s this group of, let’s say, 80 people, at the time they reach Marble Colossus, there’s like 60-70 people, alright.

Due to the sheer bullet hell Marble Colossus’s fight is about (fine for endgame), the number of players drop down to roughly 30~ at the time that group reaches the fourth and final Marble Core phase (which is the arguably hardest phase the Colossus has).

Alright, a small group of experienced players (or just because they sticked together to the Priest with Puri Tome, whatever), let’s make it 25 people, manages to defeat the Colossus and destroys the Chest, which grants a free pass to the Void without the need of a Vial.

Now, here’s the problem.

It’s all fine during the first phase, circling and attacking the Entity, until he starts to spawn in the shades, at this phase you are supposed to attack the Entity while keeping the minions at bay so they dont transform into a Greater Shade over time, the thing is with such a small group the arena gets flooded with the minions, even if they deal large damage to the Entity, it only makes things worse at it starts to split the arena and limits free movement, and everyone nexus even before the Entity even manages to split the arena in 4.

That’s the problem, the Void’s fight is so stupid on the way it’s a DPS Wall, and with the arena shrinking over time it just makes things worse.

Before any of you say “It’s the endgame boss! Of course it should need large amounts of damage!”.

As far i’m concerned, The Shatters and The Nest are both considered endgame dungeons, and none of them has a DPS Wall (well, The Forgotten Sentinel is a DPS Wall, but even with 5 people due to the recent hp scaling, it’s possible to do).

Heck, not even The Lost Halls and The Cultist Hideout have a DPS Wall, it doesn’t matter if you take too much time to destroy the Marble Cores or kill the Cultists, you won’t get overflooded by some minions or be restricted by a shrinking arena.

The only way a regular player is able to do The Void is by using Discord with over 100+ people per run, a regular player, take hint of that.

There’s no way you go into a Realm, kill the Sentry, clear the Halls, kill the Colossus, some of you has a Vial and pops it, and that group manages to do the Void, because on normal terms, it’s impossible, it’s not factible, in fact, people who have Vials, bet it by soloing Cults or getting one from a public Cult, only use them for a Discord, because it’s the only way to do a complete Void Run.

Note: this is minor, just a lore thing.

EVERY Realm closed and with Oryx killed, never has done a Void Run on normal circumstances, perhaps a Cult Run or only killing the Colossus on some cases, but NEVER a Void Run, so, since the Void Entity never was fought, he unleashed chaos on the Realm and destroys it on it’s entirety, that would include the players in that Realm.

In fact, every Realm you close, it gets destroyed, because of the incapability of doing a succesful Void Run, because of the problems i’ve noted before.

TL;DR: The Void is a pointless DPS Wall and impossible to do on a casual Void Run unless on a Discord.


#2

The lost halls was never meant to be a casual dungeon. It was INTENDED to be a challenge for even the best of players. Thanks to discord, however, even normal players can do the dungeon. You have to realize how lucky you are that discord exists. It is meant for the elite to run, loot and do, not for everybody ranging from a noob to a ‘good’ player.


#3

So should i feel lucky about that an outside factor that lets me to do a successful Void that otherwise would be impossible on normal gameplay? That’s questionable game design.

I get that The Lost Halls is supposed to be the endgame, the Marble Colossus is a perfect example of that and that fight is the pinnacle of endgame in the Realm.

The Void is the problem, the Marble Colossus fight punishes you a little for having bad DPS just by making a certain Phase longer than usual, like most other fights in the game. The Void punishes you badly for having bad DPS by flooding the arena with minions and pure evil and thus, forcing you to leave.

I mean, other fights have a limit on spawning the minions, like the Killer Bee Queen, but the Void’s spawn is endless, making it pointless for you group to even keep attacking the minions, as it’s too much to keep on both the minions and the boss, literally the Void’s requirement is to have large DPS amounts, there’s no strategy on that.


#4

Just because it is like this doesn’t mean this is how it should be.
Honestly all dungeons should be soloable I feel, but very endgame ones should test the skills players have learned on their journeys and they should include extreme shot patterns that can still be dodged if dealt with, with precise movements (not just tons of projectiles going any what direction).
Honestly the void is kinda stupid. A limited amount of phases and a bunch of minions that serve as an annoyance and a distraction is not good.

In my opinion, the best, most organised two bosses in the game are Oryx 1 and the Nightmare Colony. Their shot patterns can be learned and if you’re a good enough player you can learn to avoid being hit by a majority of the hard hitting shots. I think the Void battle should take notes from those two, because they at least are both heavy hitting and organised at the same time.


#5

What do you mea? It is SUPPOSED to be like that. Impossible for unorganized groups.

@LolGod yes, you actually should.


#6

Lost halls, and everything about it, is utter shit.
End game my ass. End of the story. 8)


#7

Why should a dungeon require a seperate app and organisation? Why should it require a group at all?

Every boss except Void is soloable and I think that’s kinda silly in all honesty.

This game was never created with discord in mind. Yes it’s a multiplayer game, but why should it require you to do a dungeon with a bunch of other people just to get top tier loot?


#8

I’m sorry but, i don’t believe that i have to rely on something that isn’t even on the game to do the Void, that’s really dumb.

@Redox You’re right.

The Void Entity, personally, i believe is the worst battle in the game, how can you tell me THE endgame boss, has:

  • Forced DPS Wall.

  • The minions being actually more dangerous than the BOSS itself.

  • Lazy shots designs, you know what the outer Void Entities clones and the Entity itself when it circles the arena reminds me of? Old O2. Not to mention, when the Entity goes in the middle, it’s the definition of laziness, heck, the large stars, that should be threatening, have a large blindspot between then, you don’t have to dodge, what is this, the Forgotten Sentinel 2.0?

I can’t believe we go from the Marble Colossus, that has interesting shots designs, punishing BUT no instakilling bullet hell, punishes the exact same way the others bosses do if you have bad DPS, just making the phase longer. To this garbage of boss design that the Void Entity is.

If The Forgotten King’s battle was fixed (cheesing, mostly), The Entity would be the new worst battle in the entire game.

Not to mention it’s the ONLY dungeon in the game that cannot be soloed by any means possible because of the bullshit of the initial phases.


#9

Slowly renders everything void. The void. Get it? Get it? Hilarious.
Brought to you by Design by Puns. For lulz and giggles. :smiley:


#10

Have you considered that the void was never designed for regular players? It’s called an END GAME DUNGEON for a reason. From my experience of running over a thousand of that dungeon, it’s meant to be challenge, and with the release of 2.0, it’s in fact easier to do voids with small experienced groups than it is for you to join a mess of a run called pub halls. The dungeon is specifically designed to reward organized groups of players, and honestly I feel like it’s better that shitters are unable to just go into void and successfully complete it like they are currently. Not everyone should be able to complete a void, and that’s fine.


#11

Stop complaining lol people do 2 man voids all the time you just suck


#12

:thinking: link him the images Danny :stuck_out_tongue:


#13

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#14

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#15

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#16

Lol who cares… just get that phat white bag and go do something outside…


#17

Lost halls cannot be compared to other endgame dungeons such as the nest and shatts which are much easier to solo and dont forget have horrible drop rates.Solo nests and shatts have been done before,but solo void? i dont think so.


#18

I think from a chest event, there’s gonna be more than 80 people

I think that the scaling for LHs is good enough where you actually can do it in small groups, as seen in the guild LHs videos on YouTube

I think that if you have bad DPS in MBC it does actually matter, since having debuff towers last even longer and some of the more dangerous phases like survival will also last longer

I also think that for a chest event, there are actually competent players who know how to do LHs because RLs are not hand feeding informations

I also think your SERIOUSLY underestimating Pally and Warriors buffs, and how low the actual HP scaling for minions are

Just sayin’.


#19

I think what people misunderstand is, they think the FINAL DUNGEON, and the hardest, shouldn’t be easily soloable, or duoable, or even done with a handful of people. While, yes, you can do it with multiple people, every dungeon should be able to be solo’d.

That’s the issue. It doesn’t matter if it took half an hour just to solo the Void, all the while dodging a fucking barrage of shots, keeping you on your toes for 30 goddamn minutes, so long as it was possible, that’d be nice, someone would be crazy enough to do it.

But, you literally can’t do that. The DPS needed is far too great, you’d need consumeable after consumeable after consumeable in your inventory and even then, there’s a fucking DPS wall that gives you the finger despite your efforts.

This seriously needs to be looked at. Perhaps, the fewer people in the dungeon, the fewer minions spawn. Problem solved. Minions should also be capped under a certain amount of people (I feel if it’s a large group, minions should be uncapped, because then there’s a sense of urgency, that can actually fuck your run up). Fuck it, make the boss fire more shots, who cares. Even if it’s so difficult that only a literal god could solo it, there are god among men, and speedrunners “know no limits”… except when they physically can’t fucking beat a dungeon solo.

@LolGod Genuinely a good discussion topic, glad you brought this up.


#20

I think the fact that voids are never attempted outside of organized discord runs has more to do with how entrenched the playerbase is in the safety and efficiency of discord runs to ever bother playing dungeons outside of those discord servers. doing a void with as few as 8 people isn’t that crazy. but that doesn’t happen outside of private discords because no one trusts random strangers with doing their job of clearing out the minions from their corner and they just huddle together. for some bizarre reason, players seem incapable of understanding the concept of cooperation unless someone can revoke the privileges of trolls who don’t stay in line. dealing with the void minions is pretty easy as long as you’re with people competent enough to actually shoot them.