So... Why is the Void a DPS Wall?

#24

By the way, it’s been done with 2 people before - check out Loopline and Japan’s void run in under 7 minutes

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OeHpVUP4DE&t=58s

#25

I know, but they used christmas consumables.

#26

This is a mmo rpg, so a good deal of co-op should go in every dungeon. Honestly, I think its totally okay if the hardest dungeon in the game isn’t soloable.

#27

Exactly. One intellectual in midst of all these… people.

#28

Broadly speaking there are two types of dungeons:

  1. Normal dungeons, like tomb or a parasite that work fine with anything from 1-n people.
  2. Big dungeons, that take a realm of people to do them. The castle, O1, O2.

Just puting new “big dungeons” (le end game) into a realm is stupid and doesn’t work. It’s just bad. All the discord groups are a testament to this. A proper game would guide the players of a (full) realm to the big dungeon. It’s a pretty simple concept.

We got just that single realm and it ends in the castle. What do? It’s also not very hard. Offer new realms of a different type (biomes, events, and so on) and then just have your shitty lost halls realm that ends in the lost halls as soon as a derp in the realm has found the vial (or what not). I mean, you can have different closing mechanics.

These realms wouldn’t necessarily have to be open/existing all the time. They could only spawn next to normal realms (for nexus pov) if the server is populated good enough. Fuck it, decker could easily monetize that bitch and offer realm opening uber mega giga drill keys to open such new realms in a nexus (still public for anyone to join).

Come up with multiple alternative realms, and you can do the Mike - I see all the numbers - Sellers thing and optimize the shit out of realms so they’re all fun. Then again, I don’t know if decker get a hardon from numbers. Maybe.

Just dicking in “le endgame” big dungeon bullshit into the existing realm was a lazy approach doomed to fail. You need to see the big picture too, not just your stupid dungeon and the shiny loot. You know? A bit more of a holistic approach. 8)

#29

Wrong. It’s because they don’t have another way of grouping together, like a party system in-game.

You can bet there are dozens of players online at the same time as you willing to do a halls, but you can’t find them because the game has absolutely no coop tools implemented except guilds and friends (which suck).

The only option is organizing outside the game, it doesn’t matter if it’s specifically on the discord platform. If it didn’t exist it’d be IRC, Teamspeak, you name it.

#30

I don’t know that their approach with LH has failed. There clearly was a demand for an “organised raid” style endgame dungeon in Rotmg, evidenced by how successful some of these LH Discord servers have proved to be, so there must be a segment of Realm playerbase who likes doing that type of content.

It’s not what I seek from this game, so the selfish part of me is glad this doesn’t interfere with the quests/closing/(optional dungeons)/Oryx/repeat loop, and it’s away in an underworld of bazaars, keys and Discords.

But it is a pity that part of the game basically requires voicechat level of cooperation. Realm to me shines best when it’s the casual co-op, where one derper dragging won’t destroy the whole dungeon for everyone.

On the OP point, DPS wall in itself is fine to have - other things have it, like crystal in realm, & Docks wall then boss, Lod (green), it’s okay IMO to have things that can’t be soloed even by every class. Things that require a group to co-op for DPS - they’re fine, but things require the group to do coordination - that’s where it gets more problematic (thinking of how Candyland can be screwed by one guy blocking bosses). LH suffers too much from that, for me to enjoy (have to basically watch every player all the time to ensure they don’t drag).

@BaadGuy it used to be the guild was king - you needed that /g chat to casual organise things, but I think just the efficiency of doing it via voice wins over for so many players, when that became a feature of online playing. I’m happy with just typing so can’t exactly speak for those who like the voice side though!

The game certainly could use some more party features, though, there’s no doubt.

#31

I think the same, but I miss having decent conversations in the chat - nowadays it’s so completely dead everywhere it’s just sad. This would be fixed if we weren’t required to group through discords - it’s surely more efficient to ‘plan’ things but it shouldn’t be mandatory to do anything like it is now, and only DECA can fix that by implementing new features.

#32

Ugh, people would do anything, literally anything, to get the new, shiny itenz. That’s hardly an argument. Fuck, people are chaining stupid ice tombs ad infinitum. Are you going to tell me they do this because ice tomb obliteration is so much fun? Really? No. They all hate it. It’s boring. It’s so boring, people get distracted easily, then someone dies, and it’s slightly less boring for a second, people laugh, and it’s back to fucking insanity.

Payd to wins gameplay is utter shit. And this includes any of these “organized” runs.

Exactly. A dungeon like LH should happen organically, not because a hundret idiots want to farm the shit out of it. The game doesn’t need to be further perverted with even more “events” (read: fucking chests as the carrot before the rabid rabbits) and selling keys bullshit. Sure, it works, because people are idiots, and it’s good money, but it’s shit for the game as a whole. From a gameplay point of view. But I guess, that doesn’t really matter if you can swag around like every other jabroni out there with the shiniest itenz ever. 8)

#33

Alright, on the topic of this discussion i’ve created…

The Lost Halls was a sudden change from what we were used to in the game for more than 6 years since it’s release.

We were all used to run a dungeon, be it an Abyss of Demons or an Ocean Trench, casually, because these dungeons didn’t require any type of organization (Tomb wasn’t the case until more content came along, namely the Pet System and the Shatters), that’s what made RotMG not so limiting when it comes to get loot (RNG is a factor, but that’s for another discussion).

Both Guild and Friends system while may look good on paper, lack a good and functional way to bring players together to do raids, lately Guilds that can actually do Voids it’s because of Discord or some other VC programs, and the Friends list isn’t really reliable to do such level of dungeons because of lame communication.

Deca said that they will expand the Guild system (about time), so we only have to wait a certain future to see what that will unveil on the coop system we have, which is quite lacking and near non-existent.

Then, The Lost Halls got released, on initial release it was quite tricky to do because of the respawning minions and not having hp scaling, which made small groups quickly leave because of the difficulty, that was quite a twist on how we used to play the game.

After the 2.0 version got released, some things got easier, some things got harder, the Halls itself became actually doable even on solo to do because of the removal of the respawns and the add of hp scaling, which made it bearable on any group size, but the Marble Colossus got an increase in difficulty, removing the survival phases and adding in Marble Cores to be able to continue, along with the last, desesperate phase that the Colossus unveils, through The Cultist Hideout got easier, and is consired many times easier than the Colossus alone.

So, we were back to what we were used to, any group casually could do either Cult or MBC, however, The Void became a special case, that destroyed the way players do dungeons normally, through other people say that it requires coordination, it actually requires a large amount of DPS, usually the only way a small group is able to do a Void is by having 4 Paladins and Warriors, otherwise a side or even two may lack enough DPS and be overwhelmed by minions and by time, the other sides may be overwhelmed by these same minions, ending the run.

However, this isn’t the case on large groups (70+) as it is on any other part of the game, the sheer amount of DPS makes the Void a joke, (it’s noticeable beforehand on the Marble Colossus fight, where each phase roughly lasts 5 seconds because of the amount of Damage the Colossus is receiving on so little time), somewhat rendering the HP Scaling unnoticeable.

A dungeon that requires almost a realm-size amount of people to be able to do normally shouldn’t be this way, there’s no way 70+ in a realm is gonna kill a Sentry and go into the Lost Halls (if it drops), also, it becomes fatal because there’s always gonna be some 0/8 players or even non-lv20 players in there, rendering the HP Scaling worse for everyone else, that’s why you NEVER see a Void Run during normal gameplay, it’s not possible.

Guilds that are able to do these Void Runs either have top tier equipments, be it classes with large amounts of DPS, many Warriors and Paladins, really high level Pets, etc.

Quite a large gap of power from a group that is able to do Shatters or Nests.

The Void has removed many things we were used before it’s release:

  • Doing the dungeon successfully on any group size without prior organization, casually.

  • Cooperation within the game itself.

  • Toleration for weaker players, even more than before, causing a even more unfriendly community.

  • Normal dungeon access, it’s not like you can choose whenever to do a Void, you have to give up an initial Halls to get the Vial then do another one to access the Void, which is quite a lot of work for 2 Manas and maybe 1-2 Life Pots.

  • Casual opening, imagine after Oryx 1 dies, a large amount of the time an Inc Holder will open the Wine Cellar regardless of the group size, this isn’t the case at all with a Vial Holder, there’s a group of 20-30 people that managed to defeat the Colossus, the Holder usually chooses to not use the Vial because it’s highly likely the Run is going to fail, and thus, a waste of a Vial.

I don’t feel this particular dungeon fits in the game on how we used to play it, maybe if the HP Scaling and minion spawning were all reworked so any group could do it normally and even be soloable, then it’ll be a RotMG dungeon.

#34

It’s supposed to be really hard/impossible for bad players and unorganized groups, that’s literally what the dungeon is supposed to be, it’s the hardest dungeon in the game.

If you’re a good enough player and have a group that’s actually organized then you can overcome this.

That’s why there are so many minions, if it was just void it would be just dodging shot patterns that aren’t very hard to dodge and attacking a target that doesn’t move that fast (except for speedy phase).

You don’t have to, if you’re skilled enough or have a somewhat large organized group (guild) you can do it.

It probably could be soloed, nobody’s done it, it has, however, been duoed, which shows that you can do it, as long as you’re skilled enough and a couple of friends to help.

Duo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME8iuImkJds

4 man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxvsMKeDK74

It’s called PMs and guild chat.

Do you deadass want Deca to add a voice chat into the game? I don’t think you understand how many servers would be required to do so, it wouldn’t be worth their time anyway due to things such as discord existing in the first place.

Yes, unless your group is coordinated and skilled enough.

It’s supposed to be an endgame dungeon, yes it requires organization of some kind.

It’s the hardest dungeon, it shouldn’t be done “casually”

???

You have to co-operate in game to do the dungeon, you have to help kill minions and damage boss and go to plates with a low player count.

It’s the hardest dungeon in the game, of course random light blue star #8297 with his t5 staff isn’t going to be helping in any capacity.

No, it doesn’t, it actually requires some skill and teamwork, if that’s a bad thing in your opinion go back to doing other dungeons.

#35

Pardon my ignorance, but would a ninja work to get over the dps barrier? It’s dps is lower than warrior (obviously), but the addition of piercing would mean overall higher dps on the minions. A doku might be able to hit enough of them at once to actually do a fair bit of damage, and in the hands of a good enough player, it might be possible. Again, I’m not sure.

#36

In what context are you asking this? Specifically group or solo play.

#37

Funny considering you A) Don’t do lost halls, B) Think that crashing is “organized” runs is not a thing, C) Are saying that people who do lost halls and enjoy it is “Utter shit”. I think in order for you to have at least a formulated opinion on a dungeon, you should at least try and run it a few times so that you don’t have a perspective of an outsider. From my perspective of seeing your points, all I’ve seen is you consistently whine and not apply any new ideas or concepts to actually make an effort to make the game better, so perhaps it might be time for you to stop.

#38

Why should a new dungeon fit into the way we used to play the game? That would just make all dungeons stale and boring. Why should any group be able to do and complete the dungeon? This is like asking for every CS:GO player to be Global Elite(Highest rank in CSGO). Being Global Elite should require skill. Doing a Void should require at least a degree of skill. Sure some discords use a loophole by having a lot of players to negate some of the need for a lot of skill. Asking for it to be reworked so that any group is just absurd. Where would the fun be? Where would be the challenge?

Dungeons do not need to be soloable, or be able to done in any group in order to be a ‘RotMG Dungeon’. Any and all dungeons released in the game will be a RotMG Dungeon, whether you like it or not.

#39

I was referring to solo; from what I’ve seen, warrior solo attempts have ended in being overrun by big boys.

#40

Ninja does not have the DPS to make void soloable. ATM warrior is the best option and even then, I’m pretty sure it’s still impossible.

#41

Gotcha.

#42

LH is a glorified private fame train.

#43

Fame trains:

  • endless amounts of enemies.
  • No real danger, basically only a medusa instakill can kill you.

LH:

  • Actually need to pay attention
  • Many things that can kill you, especially crusades.
  • Actually has drops, you shouldn’t be doing this for fame exclusively because that’s dumb.
  • Enemies dont respawn, you have to do them constantly for the “fame train” effect.

Literally the only thing they share is the fame.