[Spoilers] Ninja ST, Archer ST Follow Ups, and then useless [stuff]

#21

Doesn’t look like something that would fit into Davies.

Im calling a mix of UDL and litch.

#22

Archer ST

  • Does literally every class need a rushing build?
  • The hide and set bonuses are still way way way too strong. Maxed you’d have 885 HP, 397 MP, 55 DEF. As I pointed out on the previous leak, that’s like wearing Nil + Deca + UbDef + ExaMP all at the same time.
  • If

is on target, why not get rid of the speedy+slow and have the quiver make you invisible? Maybe invisible+stunned? I think that fits with the quiver description and “phantom” name better too.

Twilight Archmage

I find this really disappointing because the DEF is one of the main reasons I use the full set, as it makes a difference to play style in mid-level dungeons and glands. Alas, I can see they are trying to modernize the set by trading def for hp and dps.

Ninja ST

  • Raijin: re: Passes Cover–Raijin and Kazekiri should be renamed “Cube God Killer 1” and “Cube God Killer 2” b/c that’s about all it is good for. Really, where are non-wall obstacles significant beside midlands?

  • NotOPShuriken: I designed a protection-themed shuriken with paramentric shots and an alternate “key held” buff last May. :smiley: Except I suggested +6 SPD to compensate for the lack of speedy, fewer shots with much higher dmg/shot to make it more effective for killing stuff that gets too close to you, and -6 DEX to compensate for the damage power. Many UT and ST items have compensating stats/effects compared to tiered (e.g. VIT & HP on Prot compensates for loss of healing buff) so I thought this would be balanced. Deca’s redesign is alright, they put +SPD in the set bonus and changed my healing buff to armored while reducing the total avg dmg by a mere 80 and reducing the range. More shots probably makes it easier to get at least a partial hit and I probably had the range too high. However, they need to raise the MP/s for Armored to at least 60, since with a maxed mheal divine pet and max wis on ninja you regen 49.375 MP/s and I think most would agree that perma-armored is not a good idea.

  • The armor and ring stats are really interesting, each OP in a way but balanced compared to other armor+ring combos. Obviously the descriptions need work.

  • The total stats on a maxed ninja would be 875 HP, 252 MP, 80 ATT, 47 DEF, 67 SPD, 80 DEX, 50 VIT, 70 WIS. Seems the the set bonuses need to be toned down. They could just remove the ATT+DEX or the HP+DEF and I would still use the set.

#23

Is the quiver like a spell or the shoots start from where you’re standing?

And I still dont understand why its called set tier when its just 1-2 op items and 2-3 meh ones.

#24

Technically that’s the point of the set bonus but you’re right, OP items devalue the idea of a set. What it should be is four mediocre items, and some fundamental changes happen when you wear the full set, instead of forced +XX stats to “make it viable”. I think some sets do this to an extent (?) like changing how projectile shot patterns are fired but not enough to convince people to use it.

#25

Preach, brother.
They just need to make it so that the items themselves are weak and only give large bonuses as a set; that way you don’t have the current situation where you’re better off strapping a couple of the best items to a character and filling in the other spots with white bag items and tops.

If I remember correctly, ninjas don’t regain mp through wisdom when speedy (or in this case, armored); pets are the only way to do this. This will still leave maxed divine users at only 5 mp lost per second, but at least it’s not permanent.

#26

It’s not that they need it, it’s just that it’s easier to balance. Unless you add an Armored or an Invulnerable on top of it, Speedy isn’t going to break the game by itself.

That would be OP if you could use any Quiver and Bow you want with it.

Not a fan of giving Invisible to a ranged class, especially not a class like Archer. If you give Archers the ability to trivialize rushing, you effectively make them a perfect class that can do almost anything in the game.

STs should be situational. If a full ST set has the same uses as a full tiered one, what’s the point of implementing it?

Godlands.

The only similarities between your idea and this new Shuriken are the multiple projectiles and parametric shots. Unless I get any official confirmation on this, I’m more inclined to believe this being an official redesign of your idea is pure wishful thinking on your part.

Edit:

Also

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the Healing buff added to Tomes when Priest was rebalanced? that is to say, a long time after Prot was put into the game?

#27

No set does this. They only change the sprite so it looks fatter.

#28

Yes, that’s what I was saying.

The rocks in glands are sparse enough to make almost no difference most of the time. Midlands trees and stuff are think enough to sometimes make it very difficult to land hits on Cube Gods and LotLLs.

and the overall theme of “protection,” the change of buff from speedy with a corresponding change in MP/s, and the overall avg damage. That’s 5 similarities, 6 if you count the compensating SPD that they put in the set bonus.

A man can dream, can’t he?

Maybe so, I don’t know the history. But there’s the def on Geb Tome to compensate for weaker healing, the lack of HP buff on Oreo to compensate for invulnerability, the SPD instead of speedy on Jugg, the HP and DEF on Ogmur in place of stun, the SPD and HP on Prism of Dancing Swords instead of teleport, that come to mind.

#29

idk about you losers but I only need one rock to murder stuff while taking 0 damage in return, and while glands may be more sparse than midlands it still has enough rocks

git gud :sunglasses:

“armored” and “healing” aren’t even close be being equivalent status effects. the difference is extreme enough that I would consider a healing star useless and an armored star overpowered.

besides, it’s not like the idea of an armored star is all that unique, I’m pretty sure anyone who’s ever tried making an item idea has considered it at one point.

#30

WARNING: TEXT WALL INCOMING

While I would love to see an Armoring shuriken I don’t feel it fits the lightning theme too brilliantly. Instead, I think a combination of some of the following features would be more thematically sound.

Upon holding the ability key, one of 3 things could happen:

  1. We don’t actually change anything and keep the armoring effect, with increased MP drain (let’s say 60 MP/sec to prevent permatank with maxed divine pets). While I like the improved durability this would give to an otherwise squishy class, it could be overpowered with one of the other effects that I’ll get to later.

  1. Instead of granting the Armored effect, a meter of some kind is filled. This would obviously require some kind of UI to indicate how full said meter is, which presents a challenge - one I believe could be addressed with the updated UI coming with the Unity port.
    How the meter is filled is also a challenge - do we base it on the MP channelled into it, with a wismodded multiplier? Alternatively, we could fill said meter by storing a percentage of all weapon damage dealt within a certain time window (i.e. 65% of all damage dealt within the next 3 seconds). The issue with this option is that it seems to complex stat-wise (with the percentages and all) for Realm’s style of gameplay, instead being more suitable for something like Warframe (probably where the idea came from).

  2. We grant the player a buff of some kind, perhaps a boost in DEX or ATT. Speedy is also an option here, but I personally think would be too generic and not synergise well with the key release effect, which I’ll get to shortly. In the event that a DPS buff is granted, either the MP drain would have to be very high to prevent a plague of permabuffed katana-wielding blenders, or the buff have an overheat function (i.e. it can last a maximum of 6 seconds before wearing off, and will not be applied again until the spacebar is released and pressed again, with a 1 second cooldown on uses).

Upon releasing the ability key:

  1. The player teleports to the cursor. This could be a sheath-style teleport with a max cast range, which would work to compensate for the lack of a speedy effect whilst not stealing the thunder (pun intended) of the planewalker rogue or the best class in the game. Or we could just say ‘screw it’ and forgo the cast range, and make this underappreciated class a true ninja like you always wanted him to be.

  2. Upon teleporting, all enemies within a small radius (not sure how big yet) of the player’s destination are dazed/stunned for 1.5 (perhaps 1 for stun) seconds. Personally I think stun > daze since the ninja is a relatively fragile class, and even if the enemy’s shot count is halved it would still be incredibly risky to use with the daze effect given the small area of effect.

  3. Alternatively, instead of a stun/daze effect, relatively high damage (600-800 or so) is dealt in a small area around the player. One take on this would be to have two damage instances, one large and low damage, and one small and high damage - Murky Toxin style.
    In addition, this is where the damage meter mentioned previously could come into play, as the damage stored from charging the ability would be dealt within the radius.

As I said previously, not all of these would be used at once as doing so would create an incredibly broken item that completely overshadows all other shurikens. My personal preference would be either this:

Key held: DPS boost
Key released: Teleport + Stun/Daze (no AoE damage)

or this:

Key held: Armored
Key released: Teleport + AoE damage

EDIT
Idea to combat permabuffing:
While using a channeled ability (i.e. a hold-the-spacebar ability) your pet’s Magic Heal amount per heal is massively reduced (like, -90% or something). This, combined with the previously-mentioned overheat function, would negate the need for ridiculous MP drain rates which would otherwise render the ability somewhat useless on unmaxed characters or those with lower-tier MP heal pets (or even those without pets at all).

#31
#32

Well in that case, I reckon that ought to be reversed such that wisdom is the ONLY way for ninjas to regain mp when speedy (outside of MP pots) so everyone is even. Divine pet users just have to release the key and wait for their MP to regen instead.

#33

+1, allowing every class to do everything is lame design. But a year ago I’d have been more bothered, because there used to be much more serious choice about weighing up your SPD vs how likely things were to die before you did SB; no point being archer if the thing’s already died to the fast classes. But now we have HPscale on all things there’s literally nothing to gain from being early to arrive. And if you’re soloing, well it doesn’t matter.

I’d prefer to reserve this fun/unique mechanic to be the tiered thing for an entire future class rather than fritter away the concept by putting it on a 1/1000 (or paybox) item that most players will never get to use.

#34

That ring really needs to be buffed :confused:

#35

Tbh I’m inclined to agree, it’s just there’s a risk the ST star is just going to be another “hold spacebar for speedy and release for mediocre damage” star.

#36

QoT daze :thinking:

/offtopic

I agree archer shouldn’t really have a rushing ability, we have enough of those and it’ll make other ‘rushing’ classes even less unique than they already are (rogue, priest, warrior, ninja already use speedy).

#37

imo non ring ST’s are as hard to get as nil

#38

don’t forget mystic :D

while that may or may not be true for f2p players, it’s not for people who just buy the items directly.

that’s another major problem with an armored ST star and a nil 2.0 ST armor, they’re going to be sold for money in the mystery box shop. jugg, prot, and nil don’t have that problem.

#39

I knew I forgot one lol :man_facepalming:

#40

1 def is equal to 20 hp statistically