Stat-Based HP Scaling

#1

HP Scaling as it is currently implemented is, quite undoubtedly, not fully perfect.
By judging every player in the dungeon slash realm equally in terms of DPS - which, more often than not, is far from true - it creates the thought that 0/8 or sub-Level 20 players are “not supposed to be here”, due to their low group DPS contribution.

At first, this warrants a simple fix: base the scaling on the amount of maxed stats a player has!
However, that is a naive thought - because in the words of GHZD, ‘Leave it to Realm players to exploit new mechanics!’ - since that would result in more players leaving their stats 1 pot away from maxing, thereby fooling the system into thinking they’re a 0/8, when in reality, their performance is nearly identical to an 8/8.

Therefore, I propose taking this idea to the next level: base the scaling on the amount of pots left to max.
This way, the contribution of DPS is more accurate than when maxed stats are only taken into consideration.
An approximate formula for this would be along these lines:

image

Of course, this is but a very basic example - implementing this more accurately would perhaps require class-specific scaling, to determine the amount of pots required to max out from level 1 onward, so along these lines:

image

However, that would then require the server to check for that class, which may end up taking some extra power from them.
Regardless of these still-present flaws, I wanted to get this idea out there, and see if any of you have additional feedback on this.

What should be added to RotMG?
Lost Halls isn't a great dungeon...
#2

I agree. Thank you for posting this so I wouldn’t have to and have it be all garbled up. Also, when they make the new client for unity, it should be-able to handle this pretty easily. Can you redo the formula? I can’t really see it.

#3

image
Might this help?

#4

Yes, danke :stuck_out_tongue:

#5

But they aren’t supposed to be there. The scaling should be based on the recommended level of each person in the dungeon, so if the dungeon is Tomb, which is an endgame dungeon where you should be 8/8, an unmaxed player should really not be in there until they reach the level they should be at.

#6

If it makes the calculation strain on the server any easier, our character’s ‘power coefficient’ (for want of a better term) could be simply coded directly into our character’s stats, as a proportion of how maxed the char is, so the game only needs to directly look at the coefficients for all the players, rather than digging into the stats and needing to do a more complicated calculation on the fly each time.

(No idea how it actually works and if this would make any improvement)

#7

Good idea! Although imagine hacked clients exploiting that and manipulating their ‘power coefficient’ to stupidly low levels. :sweat_smile: That random thought aside this is a great idea, would only require a few formulas client side and greatly improve the HP scaling everywhere.

#8

this wouldnt do anything but make the game a little easier, if you give the enemies less health that doesnt make new players want to shoot them more that just makes it faster for everyone else. I think everythings fine the way it is and this would make the game too easy.

#9

Ok. Just gonna nag on one tiny thing here: GHZD actually said “Leave it to Realm of the Mad God players…” instead of saying “Realm players” i didnt include the rest because i couldnt remember if he said to exploit new mechanics or “to find a way to exploit new mechanics” and being wrong would be really embarrassing.

I actually love this idea, because I am almost always 0/8. Sadlyfe, amirite?

Anyway, a lot of times, i get sort of close to maxing, then die in a stupid way, such as that wizard who was like 9 dex from max, then i died in a wc cuz i thought an abomination was ded, but he got off his shotgun before he died. This implementation will make it much more feasible for mediocre players, like myself, to progress.

And it wouldn’t hurt players who can already comfortably max a character.

#10

Let’s leave the particle physics out of our video games.

#11

this would make a lot more lag

#12

dont think you really understand how lag works

#13

more things that affect the game = more lag

#14

It’s just math that the servers have to do. Servers do math very well. Most lag is when there are a lot of things that need to be rendered, and objects are a lot more complex than math (walking attacking animations, stats, shooting). In short, this change shouldn’t make your game any more laggier than having to render another enemy.

#15

Should it really be expected that you’re 8/8 in a tomb? 6/8 is far more accurate imo. This used to be the original source of life, meaning the dungeon was created with non 8/8’s in mind. Still the same idea regarding 0/8’s and sub 20’s though.

#16

I feel like this would defeat the purpose a bit of making sure you have high level characters in high level dungeons. I know you said

it creates the thought that 0/8 or sub-Level 20 players are “not supposed to be here”

I think this is true. If a low maxed character is going to try and be a part of the dungeon, than they better have to skill to make up for it. This could also make hp scaling in easier dungeons, which are normally suppose to challenge newer players who aren’t maxed, a bit to easy. Hp scaling, imo, is mostly to help ensure that all capable players can get their soul bound.

For most bosses in this game, hp scaling doesn’t make a huge difference, and once you know how to do them, the amount of health they have doesn’t really impact anything accept how long the dungeon takes. So this encourages players to bring good characters (of course public dungeons are going to be more difficult, but guild runs, or clearing realms in small groups of higher level players is still encouraged.)

For me, one of the biggest reasons I wanted to max, was so that I could help out my group. If im in a public dungeon, thats hardly a concern. Hp-scaling should be intended to make the dungeon more difficult and set a certain standard for the type of characters you should bring.

This idea almost encourages players to bring bad characters to higher level dungeons because they won’t impact the hp scaling in the same way so they know they good, maxed characters will surely be able to complete the dungeon for them.

I’de rather have the dungeon run fail due to a high hp scale and too many unmaxed characters trying to leech, than have to carry a bunch of unmaxed players through a shatters or LH just for me to get a 0.

#17

It’s an odd thing to argue, that you’d prefer the entire group including yourself fail and guarantee 0, than you carry the group through a faster fight and only potentially get 0.

#18

yes, because it encourages people to focus on making their characters better before trying to leech public dungeons for easy items. What this essentially would do is making leeching as an unmaxed character less permissible

If they have the skill to get through the dungeon with the unmaxed character than they should go for it, that means they are genuinely a top tier player and deserve the chance at loot. But the dungeon shouldn’t be made any easier for them when these dungeons are designed for the end of the game.

and for mid tier or low tier dungeons, the hp scaling is already geared around a character being unmaxed and actively working for potions, so they should also not have the hp scaling changed.

The only reasonable place I could see this being implemented is for events in the realm, but those already hp scale so low that it doesn’t matter.

#19

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