Switches in Rotmg dungeons

#1

Throughout playing dungeons like mountain temples, mad labs and cursed libraries, i’ve found that most of the time, players, i included, don’t try to complete the dungeon via switches that unlock the treasure rooms. It can be easy to see that it is just not worth the time even after revealing switch locations. It is not required, but it does bring into the question if a mechanic like switches should even exist in a game like Rotmg.

In my personal opinion switches like the coils in mlab shouldn’t exist but instead just have it so the treasure room is randomly placed in the dungeon. This mainly comes from two reasons: purpose and reward. There really is no purpose to these switches except creating a gateway to more content that much of the other dungeons don’t do like the abyss, uld or snake (Ddocks technically doesn’t have one since the path to unlocking the door is linear.) It doesn’t have any challenge to it except to challenge the patience of the player in clearing out every switch (possibly along with mobs) if they choose to do so; all for a reward that is rng based. If you end up doing it with a sizable group and get nothing, it is discouraging to do it again unless someone else decides to do all the grunt work. I can tell this has lead to many deciding just to not do the treasure room, unless there is some sort of chest event such that doing the troom will maximize the value of the dungeon, otherwise it ends up just being wasted content. It is not hard, just tedious and unrewarding.

There are some exceptions however. Davy’s whole dungeon is designed around unlocking doors randomly spread throughout the map and is pretty straightforward even offering multiple treasure rooms. But then there are dungeons like the shatters that i have experienced go wasted many times because players are too much in of a rush to destroy switches. That or people just leave after the Bridge Guardian because actually going through the dungeon to destroy the switches to the Archmage is too much of a hassle. It leaves me thinking that switches shouldn’t exist because of what Rotmg is now but at the same time i can see the issue is a symptom of player mentality, that being every dungeon needs to be done fast and the rng-based reward doesn’t help this at all. In the time it takes to clear a mlab, you could’ve already killed event gods and or have gone and finished multiple other dungeons.

TL:DR Switches like the coils in mlab should be removed because it takes too long in a game that has become too fast paced.

#2

First of all, I think that the original intention of switches might have been to incentivize clearing. After all, if you consider the setup of the Mountain Temple, it is pretty anti-rush, between the confuse, quiet, paralyze, and the enemies that fire regardless of cloaking, etc. It doesn’t seem to have worked out very well.

The Shatters I think is a special case. The intention seems to be to work with a group to clear an area, but so much of the dungeon has been designed to be a source of trolling. The overspawn mechanic to prevent rogues from rushing works negatively now.

It’s a difficult situation to clean up. People will be stupid anywhere and drag (crusades in Halls, used to be brutes in Abyss, Ice Cave drags back in the day, etc)

Specifically for the one you mentioned about the Mad Lab: I’m heavily opposed to the idea of random trooms; it seems like many exist already and there’s not much point to it. However, I would like to propose another alternative from my Fire Emblem experiences. In Fire Emblem, you can unlock certain gaiden chapters (basically bonus levels) by meeting certain conditions.

Applying this to ROTMG, you could add some type of speed requirement (if you do under x time, you get a bonus boss with better drops) or maybe different

#3

The coils in the Mad Lab are indeed a hassle to deal with, but it gives us the lesson of clearing and the value of it. For dungeon like the Shatters, if they leave because they don’t want to deal with switches, that’s on them. The idea of it is to promote the concept of danger and reward. You can’t have players just waltzing into the Boss Room. If there were no switches and you have one Mystic to put enemies to Stasis, you can breeze through the Shatters with incredible ease and essentially ruins the endgame theme.

You’re testing the entire point of RotMG. You don’t go into a dungeon for guaranteed loot. You go into a dungeon for the chance at it.

If you’re on a relatively strong character, clearing a few Coils isn’t a big deal. While there will always be those guys that wait in the Boss Room, I’ve seen a lot of players do it at once to help. If it’s so annoying to do this at the end, just clear them while you’re getting to Dr. Terrible.

This isn’t the case. Stat Potions aren’t the only thing that we care about – there are dungeon-exclusive items as well. No matter how many Event Gods you kill, your chance at a Fulmi will be 0.

It’s understandable that players get impatient from clearing, but just take the time for it.

Best of luck in the Realm,
Gamma :v:

#4

The leeching is annoying, but I actually like trooms that are distributed across the dungeon even less, as it usually is just a chest that drops bad loot and makes the dungeon take longer or makes split groups more of a hassle because you might miss out on the troom.

I think the trooms in mlab or mt are the better ones, as they at least serve a purpose, by giving you a greater chance for the dungeons uts if you spend more time. The trooms in the snake pit and the abyss are also good because they’re actual foes.

Something like the recent trooms in the epic dungeons on the hand is 100% unnecessary and adds absolutly nothing to the dungeon while just making it longer. If Deca felt like the dungeon isn’t rewarding enough they could have just made boss more rewarding. There would have been dozens of better uses of the devs time than those trooms.

#5

Players will always find a way to bypass dungeon obstacles. There are some people who can rush Lost Halls and with a big enough group, the Nest. But if you force a player to go through the entire dungeon, it takes away freedom from the player that might otherwise be a fun factor in the game.

I don’t find random troom pointless, as i view trooms to be sort of a lucky gift that works best if its random. But if you make it guaranteed, especially if it drops an exclusive item, it turns into something else. And isn’t clearing the coils already kind of meeting certain conditions. And having the condition be too general like a speed condition will mean over-sized groups will be too beneficial and we’ve seen just how over-saturated the popping culture is.

#6

How do you feel about the crystals in Fungal Cavern?

#7

Its not just on them, it can impact the entire group. People who rush to the gate and end up nexusing leaves the enemies to deal with with a smaller group which will likely end with everyone nexusing. I understand the exploitation if there are no switches, but of course removing the switches will mean compensating for it as well e.g. making certain enemies stasis immune.

My point isn’t to get guarenteed loot, its the methods for the rng loot. it should have the potential to be efficient to do as all the other sources rng loot because it is rng loot.

Sure its not a big deal, i said it wasn’t hard, but then why is it there. Sure you can say im just being lazy but then there are players who leech from those who clear. Its hard to say whether these obstacles are necessary.

You can say that about a lot of other things. You missed a cube god that could’ve dropped a cronus but you were in an MT clearing lanterns. The point is how it makes the players feel whether its efficient or rewarding. I like the way snakes and abysses have their trooms where it feels like a lucky find while naturally exploring the dungeon. It doesn’t take anything away from the player. The way its structured in MT, it starts to feel like you’re missing out if you don’t do it.

#8

I actually haven’t done much of fungals and by extension the crystal caverns. Of course the crystals drops deca rings so it can be worth it to help clear them.

#9

I like trooms like the abyss or the nest better than mt and mlab. You can find it while exploring naturally, which feels good, and isn’t just a chest sitting there. That being said, having thought it over, maybe having exclusive items for this extra room should warrant barring it with extra effort. But then you have the wlab’s trooms. Exclusive item but no switches and made even easier by being basically a chest and not a boss. Its just inconsistent and gives me mixed feelings.

#10

Imo it encourages people better at the game to clear and reduce the chance of the less skilled dying

#11

Switches

Are okay as a concept, to give a dungeon a unique feel. Not every dungeon should have them, but they’re good to have in the design mix. Without them several dungeons would be turned into “wait for the rusher, TP for the fight” yawn-a-thon (like OT is). Switches let the other players do something to contribute.

Shatters has a perfect storm of problems that make the first section a unique nightmare, but the switches in the second part are more how it’s supposed to work, and they’re a lot better, the group can clear along to get them, or a rusher can try and be a hero to speed the whole thing up.

Deca’s change so that the post-boss switches light up on the map, is IMO enough of a concession to the fast-fast playstyle, rushers can now go straight to them instead of doing the room-by-room search. While clearers are not particularly affected by this, since they would have got them anyway, it still speeds up ones they accidentally missed. (Janus uncleared switches highlight when?)

T-rooms

It’s good when a guaranteed T-room offers something unique, because then players who aren’t interested (eg. they already have the item) have no need to participate in the extra optional content, and no need to waste their time doing switches for a boss that they don’t care about.

(This is me in Lab, MT, Nest, Library, others probably that I forgot)

I like it when a random T-room offers only duplicate loot from the boss, or partial boss loot, because then there is no worry if you miss it, or if someone greedies it without calling. It’s only the same as doing another run of the dungeon, and you aren’t forced to clear looking for it. But if you find one, it’s like the dungeon is worth double loot that run.

(This is how Abyss, UDL, Puppet Theatre are for me)

I don’t enjoy the random T-rooms that DO have unique loot. Because if you’re interested, you are effectively forced to check every room for the chance of them appearing. So you’re wasting time running around the dungeon after it’s already finished, potentially for no chance, when you could be back out in the realm doing the next thing. And you are frustrated if two get found simultaneously, or at the same time as the boss.

(This is DJL for me at the moment)

The exception is Docks, I think they’ve tried to be clever with that one, as it has the “increasing” thing where it can change to silver/gold, to give higher Cutlass/Hook (STring) chance, without having the Tricorne (STability) affected, but in practice a lot of players just don’t care enough to do it, and certainly not if there is a risk in missing the boss when the group is majority “don’t care”. This T-room shouldn’t have been put in like this.

I’m not a fan of random unmissable T-rooms either, so the Depths one falls down too. As a reward for exploring, fine (Abyss, UDL, Parasite), or a reward for clearing (ones with switches), fine, but Depths is just “Hi, RNG says have a free T-room!” um okay? Bit lame.

#12

Makes me wonder if rushing was ever suppose to be a part of the game.

#13

Maybe not. Perhaps the game developers wanted people to slowly grind and clear rooms one by one. But as the game expanded, rushing was inevitable. Using speed to bypass enemies is just the way things are. I’m not all too against it, though, because clearing can only go so far before you need to rely on heavy numbers while rushing does not. It’s entertaining, and that’s usually what matters to us.

#14

I don’t think it was; it wasn’t until pets came along that rushing most dungeons became something your average player could do (since it often requires a sustainable supply of hp, mp or both). Rogue and trickster and tanky classes can do some rushing without pets, but it’s not sustainable without a good deal of skill in many situations.

#15

Right. I forgot to mention pets >-<

#16

I’d say rushing in the pre-pet game was always an accepted option for those capable, for instance Wild Shadow did remove teleporting from Wine Cellar, and Castle never had it, seemingly as they thought it unfitting to permit the leech-TP style of things in there, while leaving it rushable for a skilled player, so I’d infer from that they were okay for players to rush, else they would have added features in WC like Castle had, walls and quiets.

Something it’s difficult to describe is how there was a general scorn against rushers and permanent rogue players, and mixed in with likely some jealous/grudging respect due to it needing skill to not die doing that, as doing outright selfish behaviour in a co-op game was swimming against the tide of everyone else.

But yes characters far more fragile due to no powered pets, and higher % of playerbase was not maxed, so the majority of players joined in doing the clearance style everywhere because that was the only way most dungeons ever got completed.

#17

Ah, when people would speak any language other than english in the game…

#18

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