T7 rings wtf? HP/MP tiers aren't right

#1

This one has been bugging me for a while.

Why are the HP and MP tiered rings so strange in their progression?
They have a too-large gap in the tiers between Exalted and Unbound, where a +160 ring should exist.

We have:
T1   +40 ring of hring of m
T2   +80 ring of ghring of gm (+40 over T1)
T3 +100 ring of shring of sm (+20 over T2)
T4 +120 ring of phring of pm (+20 over T3)
T5 +140 ring of ehring of em (+20 over T4)
T6 +160 should be here (+20 over T5)

except we have:
T6 +180 ring of uhring of um (+40 over T5)
occupying what should be the T7 position on the tier.

It’s quite standard for the early tiers to have higher jumps, but as you can see the Unbound HP/MP should really be doing +160 to be legitimate T6 rings and make a consistent tier progression at the top end. Unbound rings doing +180 steals what T7 rings should have.

The other ‘rainbow’ stat tiers don’t have a similar gap between T5 (+8) and T6 (+9). So I think the gap in the HP/MP tier really should be closed, by nerfing the Unbounds down to +160.

Fixing this now would be helpful, since it would allow T7 rings to be more easily released in the future, with less whinging about OP items and power creep, because the T7s could come in at their rightful +180. Hell if they do this fix, they could churn out T7s tomorrow since it only keeps us at the same level (and a +1 on the rainbow tiers with their T7 is hardly going to break the game).

I can’t think why Kabam chose to make them do +180 instead of +160, but you might recall their whole approach to the Unbounds as a whole was a bit bizarre, hands up if you remember this was Kabam’s monstrosity of a sprite upon first release:
olduholdum

Deca seems fairly keen on revisiting some of Kabam’s content, so thought it’d be worth shining a light on this inconsistency we have remaining from the Kabam times. What do you think? Or is it (un)bound to be forever kept inconsistent because Deca shys away from any nerfs and the ‘outrage’ it brings.

The DECA (Ring of Decades not the company) Problem
#2

I think it makes sense given the enormous disparity in rarity. If anything, I’d say a stronger argument could be made against the tier system a whole and how the rest of it doesn’t account for rarity. It’s a relic of the super early stages of the game and one of RotMG’s first real progression systems. There’s almost no tangible difference between, for example, a T10 staff and T12, but one gets sold for multiple life and is considered necessary gear for a high end player while another one probably won’t even get taken out of its bag when it drops. The only reason for this is the rarity imposed by the drop locations and their long-held status as something they really aren’t.

If we really want to point fingers, the fault lies in the tier system itself which was never built for long term scaling. The jump from T10 to T11 and T11 to T12 is nearly identical in most cases, but while a T10 item can be obtained easily from any midgame content, T12s were treated like some ultimate godly item to be coveted and restricted to the endgame. LH tops work for what they are as a sort of status symbol and badge of additional bragging rights, but wouldn’t it be nice if the game could actually accommodate a meaningful power increase with them?

To fix the problem at the source, the slope of all tiered items would need to be reworked for a more even progression (such as not throwing 80% of the system into the early game that people can quickly start to ignore). I definitely think that should happen someday, but it’ll be easier said than done. To get back to the original topic, I’d say the current unbound rings are one of the better examples of how the tier system could work based on a tier’s place in the game’s progression.

Replace the Unbound rings from Oryx 3 with Deca Ring
#3

damn bro

#4

Oh Toastrz that’s a really frustrating answer to hear! :cold_sweat:
If the game telescopes out the top tier to always be a meaningful power increase, accelerating how much better each item is, the lesser items become even more redundant. Because the only satisfying item will be the top one. Flattening the curve at the top is how to maintain a purpose for the second/third/fourth best items, because then they aren’t leagues behind the top item.

But anyway that’s generalities!

You say the T6 UB rings are one of the “better example” of tier progression.
But you seem only to be focusing here on HP/MP with their double increase over T5. Because UB Vit/Wis/Att/Def/Dex/Spd don’t have this, they simply continue their tiers with a plain +1 over T5.

Now, I’m all for logic, so if that’s the rationale: that T6s deserve a double increase because they’re so rare/special/endgame/redbag items. Can we hope to see the rainbowstat UBs get changed to +10 instead of +9 to match this concept? I just want parity across the T6 items.

It’s not my preferred route, I’d do the fix as said, and place new ultrarare T7s (+180/+10) in endgame, and break out the T6s to lesser-endgame content. But certainly the idea of raising the rainbow T6s to +10 also would work, solving the discrepancy from the opposite side. :thinking:

#5

Non-HP/MP rings are so far behind their competition that it would need a much greater increase to be meaningful, but on principle yes, I agree with your point. With the occasional exception of defense rings, it’s never even a debate between a couple extra vitality and nearly 200 HP. Whether that demands a considerable buff of rainbow stat rings, a considerable nerf of HP rings, or something in between, it goes back to my initial point that the whole tier system is beyond outdated and hasn’t been congruent with the game’s progression speed for many years.

#6

To go off on a completely meaningless tangent that is moreso just a loose spring of an idea…
What if we just dumped tiered rings altogether?
Probably a 0/10 idea, but if instead, we’d simply have rings grouped around specific things a class needs, it’d make for something quite interesting.

What I mean is something along the lines of the Alien Cores, except the set bonuses are the main stat bonuses.
So, we’d have a Ring of Life (Vit, HP), Ring of Magic (Wis, MP), Ring of Strength (Att, Def), Ring of Swiftness (Spd, Dex). Something along those lines? :3
idk, just a fun thought I’d throw out there.

#7

Remove alien rings and all tiered rings

remove game

#8

I’d even argue +10 is insufficient for rings like UBWis and UBVit that are useless either because there is a direct upgrade (Geb Ring) or because they’re just useless (UBVIt)

#9

It would be nice if they were actually obtainable. One of the biggest draws to me originally to realm is that the drop rates were very good for everything except white bags. If you ran wine cellars you had a pretty good chance of coming away with tops. Every single new item since then, including your vanity tops, have been balanced with hilariously low drop rates to the point where they might as well not exist. As I’ve said in the past, Shatters is one of my favourite dungeons and I run it regularly. I’ve seen ONE (1) unbound ring drop, which was a UB Dex that I keep in my vault as proof that they really do exist.
Old ROTMG used to be balanced where if you could do the content you could get the rewards, which plays nicely with the permadeath. I’m literally never going to use my UB Dex even if its stats were worthwhile because if I die with it I’ll never see another one for as long as I live. With original tops you could use them and die with them and that would be fine, because if you did a couple more wine cellars you had a pretty good chance of getting more tops.

#10

Ah that’s heartening to hear, glad we are mostly on the same page about this! :fireworks:
Though don’t you find it at all contradictory to hold this sentiment and support the missing/double gap in the HP/MP tier? Since it is a contributing factor to the HP mindset, that such high HP items exist. Had the tier gone T5 +140, T6 +150 (and Decades +160) people would still grab for them, since as you note every possible HP remains more desirable than a single pip extra of other stats.

But anyway that’s for you to think about :slight_smile: .

Yeah, as Toastrz describes there is a clear argument for a larger rebalance for the rainbows UBs, though any more complicated rework might set in chain knock-on consequences for other items. Geb’s might be less of a thing after the tomb set gets ‘legacied’ since people are forced to turn to UB Wis if supplies of Legacy Geb’s start to dwindle. Gah dupers again though will they be bothered. But yes you are pushing on an open door with me on this, as I’d like HP not to be an auto-choice though it’s somewhat unavoidable with endgame/instadeath/pets.

@Seelpit have you considered that they’d be great concepts to sit alongside the single stat rings, as four extra strands of tiered rings each doing a pair of +stats, so Ring of Greater Strength, Ring of Paramount Swiftness, Ring of Unbound Life etc., each type being a new rock/gemstone in the sprite & desc. Tradeable of course like all good tiered items should be! Giving a bit more breadth to the tiered rings and variety in our builds, without us always needing recourse to using STs for this purpose.

#11

I’m not toastrz but I don’t find it contradictory at all. the point isn’t that the gap between T5 and T6 rings specifically has to remain, but rather that every other tier upgrade provides a laughable difference in power for the amount of effort that has to be expended to acquire it. if the current tier system were completely overhauled into something actually meaningful, the current situation with the double upgrade on hp/mp rings doesn’t necessarily need to stick around.

#12

I agree only with endgame and pets. I think people used a lot more different types of rings back in the earlier days before pets and endgame, but after ammys so instadeath still affected them.

Mengatasan, for example, carried an exa atk
image

But also, this might just be because new rings became available, such as Crown, Bracer, and halls rings, as well as scores of other new items.

I think the tiered rings just slowly got outclassed.

#13

ew ass on knight wtf

#14

You do realize that screenshot is from around 2014 or 15 right

#15

About vitality rings, it has never really passed through my mind until now but as the game works now (no vit mod on any class) DECA should’ve buffed them to like +30 or something a long time ago.

#16

What’s wrong with ASS? I like it, I think it’s a nice sword…

#17

IIRC i think that was to make bilgewater solos possible.

I’m not trying to be a dick here, but you clearly have not ran enough shatters if you haven’t had to toss multiple ubvits and ubwises.

Now had you said “UBHP”…

#18

knight already doesnt have the dps of paden and warr and he can’t damage buff either, also he’s tanky so he doesn’t need range

#19

ASS is nice as a run and gun though for dangerous enemies that aren’t stunnable like statues

#20

lmao why does endgame content immediately translate to stun and paralysis immunity and shotguns?

It’s almost like DECA is running out of ideas to make the game hard