The necromancer problem

#1

We all know people love to trash talk about the Necromancer.

This class is not the most powerful (and it doesn’t have to be) but maybe its ability are a bit too weak. But it’s not the point of my thread.

I’m talking about the lack of diversity about skulls. Compared to other classes, Necromancer needs more skulls, especially mid-top tier skulls. Let me explain:

  • The first obtainable skull, Cracked cristal skull is good for beginners but not really useful.
  • The second obtainable skull from medium dungeons is the Memento Mori, which is a really good skull in my point of view, but its utility is limited. Notice this skull is a ST.
  • And ALL others UT skulls can be looted from very difficult dungeons (such as Esben, Endless Torment, Cubic frame…). Esben is the less difficult to have, but others are quite hard to obtain.

So, do you see the problem ? Compared to Knight, Wizard, etc… there’s a lack of diversity for the Necromancer. I think we need at least one new skull from the Abyss of Demons, or the Toxic Sewer (or another medium dungeon).

Let me know your thoughts :slight_smile:

About the Shatters rework
#2

I love to play the necromancer, earlier it was my favorite class (good survivability, good range, good damage - all not the best, but good). But I enver thought about the skull diversity. I like the idea of getting another one in the Abyss or Sewer, as both dungeons are often ignored by many players. Less effort for the risk and time I have to invest to get through (especially in Abyss with the Necro).

The skull does not drop in the undead lair. It drops from the ghost kings outside in the realm.
(https://www.realmeye.com/wiki/memento-mori)

I only did so many Undeal Lairs when I was out of Doom Bows (and you should never run out of Doom Bows!)

#3

Thanks for your answer.

Necromancer is one of my favorite class too. But it’s so frustrating to play with only 1 skull everytine, unless you can go in a high level dungeon and get a white (lol).

For example, I love to play Priest because he has a lot of variety (geb book, necromicon, purification tome…). Necromancer needs this.

And thanks for noticing my mistake.

#4

necro with S.T.A.F.F. + memento mori go BRRRR in solo play
I don’t think skulls’ drop location is a problem, but i think that all skulls need a buff in general, a god damn priest tome can outdamage all skulls combined.

#5

Ummm. I don’t consider ice cave nor shaitan’s endgame content personally. If you want to use some of these skulls without grinding these dungeons, though, consider using the item forge :). Esben, torment, and thicket skull can all be forged (though you may have to find the torment blueprint in exaltation dungeons/02). I’m of the opinion skulls/necro just need a rework.

Also, make sure to get in some cults for the cursing skull!

#6

How about we look at the UT skull list real quick…

Screenshot%20(212)
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Wow, Necromancer is actually tied 2nd with the most amount of abilities! If you don’t count the bee quivers as 3 separate whites, it’s actually tied first!

Even if you discount the belladonna skull, it still has a healthy amount of variety.

Some classes have it worse off! Such as Huntress, who can only get their UTs from event bosses, fungal, OT! Sure, the STs you can get from mwoods, but honestly going their and getting a white hurts enough to never go there again.

Archer’s first good quiver would be from a troom boss in a dungeon people find by accident, or from events, event dungeons, courts, or the literal end game boss pre o3.

Imo, skull variety isn’t much of a priority, when it has 1 good early game ST.

Most classes have at least 1 decent midtier/early tier UT/ST. Bard gets the snake charmer, Summoner sprite mace, Priest Puri, Rogue cloak, and so on and so on.

Compared to Knight, Wizard,

Funnily enough, those two have a difficult time getting good UTs/STs
The closest one for wizard would be parasite, which nobody does (outside of events), and knight needs to do the optional boss that forsakens oryx 1 and potentially oryx 2.

Maybe the reason why there’s a lack of skulls in your arsenal is by skipping court of oryx dungeons, ice cave, discords, or even clearing the realm. Sure ice cave and ghost kings don’t give pots, but court of oryx dungeons are still a viable option if you already have wc tops.

The real problem is how nobody does these godforsaken bosses due to the lack of pots to difficulty, and [OMITTED]

Anyways, hope my in depth analysis helped with someone doing a necro ppe!

#7

Ghost kings are even worse than undead lairs. They’re even harder to find, but they’re not as boring as ents though, nothing drops from them, only from the nature sprites that it spawns.

#8

at least the ghost king can be killed within a very short time if you know what you are doing.

#9

However, keep in mind what each Skull’s “role” is. Crossing off Cracked Crystal and Epiphany, we’re left with 6 UT skulls.

Sealed Crystal: The “big radius” skull. In essence, this one’s niche is relatively tame, sacrificing damage for greater potential healing. Nice, but not too practical considering the loss of 35 HP per target hit compared to Bloodsucker.

Esben: With this one, I’ll admit that it has a use; an instant AoE slow is rare, and Esben is probably one of the easiest to hit. However, it’s severely held back by its high MP cost, short Slow duration, and just…better Slow methods existing? You’ve got traps, which can also inflict AoE Slow for much longer; Quivers, which are generally cheaper; the Orb of Sweet Demise, which is basically even better than Esben in terms of Slowing; the Scepter of Fulmination, which is extremely cheap…it’s just a tad outclassed.

Perennial: I’m tempted to also leave this one out, because it drops from a seasonal dungeon. This one is a hybrid stationary damage/healing-on-cursor…which is cool and unique, sure, but it’s not anything worldbreaking.

Endless Torment: Likely the most interesting Skull, but its situationality of requiring 2 / 4 enemies within its relatively small radius, as well as needing status effects to be purified…it leaves it in a tricky spot.

Corrupted Souls: Aaand we’ve got another case of “already done by other abilities, and better, too”. Tiered Orbs, Scorchium, the Agent of Oryx Orb, the Necronomicon, Hivemaster, the ST Poison…just…nothing else.

Demon Lord / Cubic / Memento Mori: Grouped together, because all of these do…basically the same thing: sacrifice any healing in exchange for pure damage or a self buff.

The problem I see is that while yes, Necromancer has many options, he has too few specialised options. No outstanding mobility options like the Pungi or Geb Tome, no unique CC options like Mystic and Archer, no gimmicks like Crystal Shield or Echoes Prism, nothing gameplay-changing like the Hivemind Mace.

It’s all just…better healing, better damage, status effect that gets done better by other classes, or highly conditional purification.

#10

don’t forget that knight and wizard also have literal event whites and necro is free from having to proc a 1/2000 chance just to have all uts that class can have

#11

Endless Torment: Likely the most interesting Skull, but its situationality of requiring 2 / 4 enemies within its relatively small radius, as well as needing status effects to be purified…it leaves it in a tricky spot.

I don’t think it would be a false statement if i said that literally not a single necromancer-playing soul in this game has procced the group or even self puri in a meaningful or impactful way, it’s just so useless, there’s not a single situation where you can use it, they just ruined my favorite skull.
dey kilt him :sob::sob:

#12

Ah ah, there’s still…uh…the start of Oryx’s Castle, where you can Purify away your Slowed…?

#13

One of the real uses i thought of is purifying confusion in manors…?? If you’re having issues with confusion in manors while having one of the most elusive whites in the game you have a problem

#14

Okay. I was talking about obtainability, like OP was discussing about. I never played in depth with the necromancer.

So what you’re saying is to add new skulls because the old ones are bad? Maybe the old ones just need a buff/rework, yes? No need to add new skulls if you can just improve the old ones.

#15

So what you’re saying is to add new skulls because the old ones are bad? Maybe the old ones just need a buff/rework, yes? No need to add new skulls if you can just improve the old ones.

i don’t think there even should be good/bad when it comes to UT items, just buff all old skulls or make them do something different.
I don’t think anyone would complain about skull of corrupted souls losing curse and becoming an actual unique item

#16

I never mentioned that new Skulls had to bee added per se. If anything, my preference will always be to patch the old rather than constantly adding new things.
Reconstruction ftw.

#17

The quantity of skulls is fine. Generally the design problem is that most the skulls have a high mana cost baseline so when they’re given the effects other classes can apply on a 60MP cost they just don’t become worth farming (or using) while the easier to get ones like Crystal and Endless Torment are also the worst of the bunch.

Torment had the right idea where you can amplify the effect if a certain enemy count is met, so the power budget can be made much higher such that necro can have damage which contests other classes. Unfortunately that isn’t really explored. They can also add stronger effects by a dual-cast type system, where the first effect marks then the second one does a bonus. Or whatever. Plenty that can be done IMO.

#18

Endless torment
While I barely play the class and have outlined my frustrations with it in a previous post (tldr Necro excels at nothing, every tool it has some other class does better) this skull is one I don’t have a lot of gripes with for an aggressive playstyle. Some dps stats, decent damage, and a nice get-out-of-jail-free card.

Is it as easy to use as puri? Absolutely not; and I wish it was… but even in my limited time using it, solo I found this very handy for fungals and nests (maggots are one of the most dangerous underrated enemies in the game). For the group in full-skip nests it is exceptionally useful.

I would consider Memento Mori on par in rarity. Unless you get lucky with a mystery box, you’re only getting that thing during events in my experience. I’ve had one of each of the items in question and I never would have gotten the Mori if I hadn’t been grinding the event.
Also sorry I don’t mean to come after you with these quotes :no_mouth:

#19

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