Wait - A new dungeon by the almighty beef god ?
The Sky Sanctuary, an Endgame Dungeon by Sturky
Deplington
#4
I haven’t finished the whole dungeon idea yet, but what immediately sticks out is how blatantly OP the robe is.
It has:
+14 def (same as star mother)
+12 wisdom (same as cultist robe)
+8 attack (same as toga picta)
+100 mana (more than any other robe besides shroud)
-25 vit (doesn’t matter with vits and even with possible vitmod)
all for literally none of the downsides of each of those robes like less def for cultist robe, negative dexterity for toga picta, or literally giving no defense at all if you look at the shroud of tlatoini
That needs to be toned down a lot, otherwise it’s just better than every other robe in the game in every way
Four
#5
Just gonna write as I read because my memwaro is bad. I also suck at giving feed back so prepare for muda information. I’ll also go back and add another post going over the individual mechanics of the enemies if I have time, shots and items as well, but atm I can’t be bothered to.
Sky Militia
I thought that the event was a bit to big being 60x60 but after looking back at other events being sentry, nest and sphinx I guess it’s not that abnormal. Also makes sense having some moving room since this is a horde event.
I personally really like the second animation on the right for this.
As for the sky mage they both seem a bit weird imo so I personally can’t really choose between one or the other.
The event itself seems okay I don’t have time to compare numbers right now but my main concern is over tuning it like the fungal event where their hp gets so high the event just drags on way longer than it needs to.
Also to make sure I’m getting this right you have a chance to get up to 25 bags correct? It’s just going to be absurdly rare.
Section #1: The Sky Sanctuary
I really like the added detail of seeing the realm from above really cool. Reminds me of when I first started realm and the void of the sprite worlds made it feel like you could fall off. For the dungeon tile and lay out itself I can’t say to much because I feel like seeing a template and seeing it in game from the right point of view are two different things. I would add different variations to the realm islands itself though. I’d give more feed back about the enimies and such but I personally don’t have the time right now to go over them, at first I was wondering why almost all had piercing shots but that’s one of the only ways to deal with hordes of players really. Other than that sprites look nice good work. 
Shando the Conqueror
I really like the Volt Orb
I’m guessing also vuln to armor break and expose?
Edit: I’m gonna assume so seeing how the other mini bosses in the fight only list off what they are immune to.
Edit againL Just read what the minion do so what I’ve said is completely muda.
Other than that the only other thing I have to say here is that there are a lot of status effects used. At least the minions have a very short range.
I do like the concept of having mini bosses up that buff the boss though very cool! 
The Sky Palace
As I said before it is hard to judge how this will look in game but this one does look more aesthetically pleasing to my eyes, my only concern is that I hope it doesn’t burn my eyes like a cland but I think it’ll be fine.
Anti leeching mechanic
So im assuming this is where the guardians will spawn is around this center piece, but doesn’t that only stop leeching in that one particular room? As a player if I wanted to couldn’t I just stand in the entrance below that room? I guess you could fix this by making that area close off after a pre deterimined time to at least force people into the main room, unless I’m just misunderstanding this. Or just make them spawn in the central hub. Leeching is always going to be a problem and will almost always be impossible to fix the only ways to really prevent it is to add something that encourages players to clear, like how in fungals you can get decas, or how in lost halls you get really nice fame from clearing and pots, and st’s.
Ah just read this further on, but for them to get to the starting room would they have to be dragged?
General Megunir
Really like the sprite for this guy. Makes me wish my warrior with ggen looked like this. My only concern with him is that his attack animation seems like it’ll be hard to fit with multiple shots unless you make him spas out and go beserk.
Other than that I really like the fight. I’ve always loved the janus mechanic and wanted it to be more fully fleshed out. This fight definitely looks interesting and brings back memory’s of raid mechanics in other mmos.
Also the unique animations look amazing good job sen/sturky whoever made that.
The Cosmic Plane
I really like this part so far. The sprites are amazing and the animations are beautiful. Don’t really have anything else to say here.
Solannos the Sun God
Running out of time at this point will give this a read over and go more in depth of mechanics items and such later.(if i remember) Really enjoyed it so far 
Sturky
#6
Precisely. As I mentioned in the document, the event’s comparable to the Pentaract, especially in loot. You shouldn’t expect to see an ocean of loot bags most of the time after defeating them.
Hey, only half of the enemies can’t be stunned, they’re still pretty usable.
I suppose so, but I imagine that something could be done with their aggro distance and general behavior to help make them chase regardless. But I’m no expert on Realm’s coding.
( I’ll also edit this as you edit your thing, since a lack of post clutter is always nice. )
The balance of the Solar Regalia in general’s always been a bit iffy for me, since Vitality’s such a weird stat to balance, with pets being a thing. I moreso balanced what you see in the document around what Deca’s been planning for a Vitmod, which in my opinion would be much better for balancing it.
LowTide
#8
im crying draconis is lod 8 times w / 18 phases and more bullets LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Realm Rewind 2019
Triiple
#10
This dungeon is just mind blowing!! Great job!
Also kudos to you @SoloSen! The sprites look awesome!
HelBlox
#11
Holy shit this thing is a helluva read. From a quick glance though, it seems like its is really well thought out. Surprised this isn’t more popular; definitely needs to go into the Best o the Best.
stellalumi
#12
wow… there’s a lot here! i try to give things at least a second read before fine combing through feedback, but some of the broad things I can talk about:
1.) document overall has been quite easy for me to read, feels organized ^-^.
2.) the General Megunir gimmick is very creative! I am a little iffy about the bloody stream pattern, but how fair it is comes down to fine tuning that’s usually not plausible in the scope of a design document.
3.) seriously appreciate that you tried to add some interaction between the dungeon’s content and other content- this isn’t really done enough in this game.
again, great work! i’ll probably have more to say later about specific things I notice.
Puffagod
#15
So I’ve already given some thoughts about this dungeon to Sturky but here are a few more - overall I like it! C:
The Pendant of Honour now has pretty a decent special ability, and it makes me feel happy!
Also, again, I appreciate the General fight - it is rather swish! And before I forget I’m going to immortalise my affection for the UT sceptre here… if anything, please add this!
Though the sprites are generally pretty good I think the Tornado and some of the Stars might need a bit more work… they look a bit jumbled next to many of the others.
Call me a killjoy (and I forgot to mention this earlier) but I think ‘shock therapy’ is a needlessly edgy name for a projectile? I just couldn’t help noticing it.
Draconis’ fight is still fatally exhausting to read through (I don’t even want to imagine playing it)… I thought the sprites and diagrams might make it a little clearer but my tiny brain still wears itself out slogging through it 
Might just be me though.
Also that meme is humiliating. I feel utterly demeaned. In fact, that’s the last straw, I’m going to post an endgame idea sometime. Hmph >:c
I will return if any other thoughts strike me. Overall, epic stuff, hope lots of people see this and get inspired!
Sturky
#16
There’s a reason for this, actually. Since projectile names are something that’s completely irrelevant in terms of the actual dungeon, especially in a real game setting, that’s where I decided to put a good chunk of references.
Examples include the Golden Monument’s Crystal Star. ( Paper Mario TTYD ), Shando’s Volt Orb ( Voltorb, obviously. ), and Draconis’s projectiles especially. Shock Therapy comes from Pikmin 2’s Titan Dweevil, which simultaneously inspired Pyyr’s Soul Restoration phase, what with the endless flamethrower.
Also edgy and Draconis go hand in hand, mate.
I can’t really say that you’re alone in that, honestly. Even for me, Draconis’s fight is a trek to get through, especially if I’m reviewing it for balance. There’s a lot in there. It’s not that I don’t enjoy it, it just takes some commitment, y’know? I’m sure not sure if that’s a bad thing overall, though.
Xaklor
#17
you’re probably not going to like hearing this from me of all people, but I just can’t bring myself to do an in-depth read of everything. too much is just too much, you know? plus my passion for reading these sorts of things has diminished drastically since having gotten some experience in realizing the difference between what you can write up in concept and how well that translates into something you can actually play. what I can comment on are some aspects of technical feasibility (assuming you even care about that), because those are more cut and dry.
also I wanted to say I’m really not a fan of the sprites, even though I appear to be in the minority here.
event encounter:
those special attack animations that solosen insisted on don’t really fit with the game at all. you could force the game to use them by spamming SetAltTexture, but it’d still look out of place. the sword animation would be especially janky.
also considering how much people just love the fungal event encounter, I’m sure this one will go over just swimmingly.
shando worshipers:
technically you can’t give shando berserk or speedy, but you can have him switch to different states that look the same as normal but with different values plugged into his shoot and movement behaviors, which essentially does the same thing. state-based immunities to daze, armor broken, exposed (not actually sure on this one), and slow are also possible.
also the punishment for killing all 5 is just begging to have people grief the whole fight.
shando:
having an enemy ignore decoys and invisibility is not possible, sorry. this is why kiddforce hates the rogue because one of them trying to solo stuff breaks everything that’s player targeted, so balancing around them is a pain.
megunir:
same beef with his special animation. and in his case it’s even worse because that cape movement really ought to be quicker than 5 FPS, but that’s the best you can possibly get with SetAltTexture spam because of rotmg’s 0.2s tick rate.
the floor pattern gimmick is tricky, but not impossible. there are a few ways to go about this, each with their own drawbacks:
- you can use same damaging effect that liquid tiles have to inflict the damage. you can apply this to a tile without having the character sink into it (think tearing frost from ice cave). downsides are that ground tiles can’t inflict status, and that spamming the PlaceMap behavior is notorious for making people disconnect (see: void split dc and katalund/forax dc).
- you can put an invisible object on every red tile that does invisible AoE’s that only hits its own tile. this is easily the jankiest option and will undoubtedly be prone to desync which in turn results in confused and angry players. plus, it’d be so messy it’d make the nest look clean. and if that wasn’t enough, the PlaceMap dc would still be happening probably
- you can ditch the floor tiles entirely and just recreate the patterns with bullets coming out of the walls like the nightmare colony does. trouble is, no single entity can have more than 128 bullets from itself out at a time or everyone dc’s, and your room is 60 tiles long. you’d have to have a helper object for every column, and you’d have to hammer your brain apart getting them all to work in unison to create a meaningful pattern, but you could do it. plus you still get status effects this way. downside would be that if players hit a lagspike, they all die just like in the nightmare colony fight.
draconian gemstone:
limiting its use to a specific map (lod) without consuming it is possible, but I don’t think you can have it fail to be consumed based on how far along the lod is.
feargus:
I don’t actually have anything to say on whether or not this works, I just wanted to explain what it is you’re looking at since I did the original miasma tiles. from left to right, what you have here is: center piece, right piece, bottom piece, left piece, top piece, top right corner, bottom right corner, bottom left corner, top left corner, and then then inner corners where I’m even less sure what’s top/bottom left/right.
then you just make a ground tile for each piece, arrange them in the proper shape, and boom:
draconis:
…yeah you lost me.
he seems like an entirely unnecessary addition to lod though imo.
Sturky
#18
This much, I can’t really argue against. I’ve timed it, and a start to finish read that I did checking for errors took roughly 3.5 hours total.
As I’m sure someone like Puffagod knows, you eventually get to the point in document design where you just keep going and going, cause you just want to keep going with what you can do, despite the fact that you know almost nobody’s going to read the entire thing.
Honestly speaking, I don’t even really know why I went up to the point that this document reached. It’s insane in several different ways.
Even I’m a bit iffy on their balance, but they’re a bit harder to balance in general. Being an event boss, giving no real consistency in difficulty. Not to mention having enemies on that kind of scale. It’s likely that I’ll nerf those three again.
Well, specifically speaking, wouldn’t it be possible code it in for that to work? I understand that for only a single entity, coding that in would be more trouble than it’s worth. But it is possible, isn’t it?
I had discussed this with Atrapper before, and he stated that ignoring decoys would technically be possible by having Shando use the class targeting that Lost Halls 1.0 featured, and making him target every class. Is that incorrect? Although I do know about how inconsistent it apparently was.
Also, I don’t quite understand the specifics of enemy behavior towards invisibility. Is there entirely separate coding for such a thing? And if so, couldn’t Shando’s behavior just be copied in? Or is there some hardwired thing preventing all of this?
This is also something that I had discussed with Atrapper. And through our limited XML knowledge, we decided that the gimmick was ultimately possible, but improbable, through the invisible entity method that you mentioned. I wanted to keep Megunir’s crazy concept in the document, so long as it was technically possible in the coding of the game. The same thing can be said for Shando’s gimmicks. There’s not really anything else to it, on my end. I just wanted to make sure that the entire thing was theoretically possible to create.
If its consumption can’t be prevented, Hard Mode’s activation certainly could at least, correct? I obviously don’t understand the specifics of consumables activating ingame stuff, like the Wine Cellar, and Void portals, so.
For post-rework Draconis, I’m inclined to agree. In my opinion, he fit in a lot more pre-rework, as there was a lot more empty room for me to fill in and play around with. So he seemed like an addition that worked, simply because there was nothing else. He only remained post-rework because I was stubborn about it, and didn’t want to scrap his concept.
Difficulty wise though? Ehhhhh…
Xaklor
#19
well if you want to step down that road then anything is possible if deca wants to add it. I prefer not to because getting deca to add pretty much anything along those lines is entirely subject to their whim. it’s not reliable.
iirc LH 1.0’s “class targeting” was about as real as the dirk’s exclusive ability to kill chickens in the realm. it was so horribly executed that you could have left it out entirely, simply told people that it existed, and no one would have been able to tell the difference. even if it had been a real thing, it still wouldn’t have been noticeable in the slightest because the dungeon rooms and hallways were so small it forced everyone into one group. I believe the extent of LH 1.0’s “class targeting” actually boiled down to “if this class is nearby, this guy moves faster”. that’s it.
there has been a new thing added to the Shoot behavior that should make actual class targeting possible that I admit I forgot about, but whether or not this would work hinges on whether decoys are called their own thing or if they’re called the class of the person who spawned them (entropy reactor makes non-trickster players capable of this), and I genuinely do not know which it is. even if that does work, not all movement behaviors allow for this sort of selective targeting, and I’m afraid I wasn’t paying too much attention to what sort of movement shando has.
any targeted behavior (targeted Shoot, Follow, etc.) ignores invisible players, and fails entirely if there are only invisible players nearby. the only way to get something to attack an invisible player is to make the direction of the attack predetermined and not based on player position in the first place. so if you have an enemy that’s told to only follow players and shoot at them, they will stand perfectly still and not shoot anything if the only player nearby is a cloaked rogue. this is true even if you made the shoot behavior targeted at rogues specifically. but if you had an enemy that followed players while shooting in preset directions, they’ll still attack if the only player nearby is a cloaked rogue. for example, this guy:
won’t follow you when cloaked, but still attacks because it’s not an aimed attack. the reason why he attacks quicker if the only player nearby is cloaked probably has to do with the PlayerWithin and NoPlayerWithin transitions. iirc one of them takes cloaked players into account, but the other does not. I don’t remember which one is which, but including them both can trigger back-and-forth state hopping that repeatedly triggers the enemy’s Shoot behavior. you can also see this happening with djinns in the realm.
so while they are options for having enemies attack while cloaked players are about, if what you want is a targeted attack that still works on cloaked players you’re out of luck.
yes, that would be up to whatever entity in lod is responsible for handling this transition (probably the altar since it handles everything else) and it’s more than possible to have it not accept the change after a certain point.
if you’re curious, how it would have to work is that the consuming the item actually spawns an invisible object that sets a global tag and then despawns. the existence of the global tag is what the altar would then use to see if changing things around is what’s needed.
PIGGIESFAR
#20
Glad I could help!!
God willing I’ll be able to sit down and skim the entirety of this beautiful monstrosity. If and when I get the chance, I’ll jot my thoughts down through a DM or plop them here.
Piggie
im drowning in work lol
Sturky
#21
Alright, here are the document’s first real adjustments, due to these being the most frequently mentioned things:
The Sky Militia’s three troops’s health, defense, and damage output has been lowered across the board. Their survivability especially.
The Solar Regalia has also received slightly lowered stats, being -10 Mana, -1 Defense, -2 Attack, and -2 Wisdom. It’s overall not much, but I think it keeps it in check a little more now, considering potential Vitmod and all.
GammaGamer
#22
Wait. I had an idea where a stone dragon comes to life (similar animation too!) long before this dungeon idea and reworked LOD were released…
Interesting.