Tiered Rings Rebalance


#1

To start off, it’s common knowledge at this point that no other T6 rings other than UBHP are used (other than perhaps Wisdom for wismod but even that one is completely beaten by an ST ring). There is just so much more option in UT rings that no one can find any use in Tiered rings (other than UBHP).

The issue that leads to tiered rings being considered garbage is how vastly underwhelming they are compared to rings of the same league but UT.
The core selling point of Tiered rings is having a ring purely focused on 1 stat, so it should grant a VERY big boost, to explain its lack of other stats to it.

For comparison, we have T6 rings that drop in the shatters and then we have 3 UT rings that drop in the same dungeon. If we compare them: the T6 rings either give 180 HP/MP or 10 of the other stats. Now who’s gonna use a ring that only offers, say, 10 DEX, when you can have a ring that offers more DPS than a purely offensive ring (UBATT/UBDEX) while also offering more than half the amount of a ring purely focused on HP?

Want more examples?

  • Ring of Pure Wishes: offers 2 less DEF but grants +45 MP/HP on top of it, it’s almost a UBDEF with HP and MP on top of it. Who would choose UBDEF when there’s such a close contender to it in the pure stat but still offers additional bonuses on top of that? Not to mention cland is a pretty easy dungeon compared to places where T6 drop, so it’s basically a direct upgrade from a Para/Exa DEF, which just defeats the purpose of tiered rings.
  • Imperial Keepsake: a pretty decent boost to HP while only sacrificing 2 SPD which is rarely noticeable.
  • Revenant Ring: Offering only 1 less VIT while granting 50 HP, 3 ATT on top.
  • Crystallized Mist: offers 2 less speed for +60 HP, +6 DEF (over halfway to UBDEF) and a reactive proc as a bonus giving better invisibility than a cloak every 45 seconds on any class.

and the list goes on.

Every single UB ring aside from UBHP/UBMP is beaten completely by other rings, either ST or UT and theres no reason to use the pure rings other than for achieving the max stats a character can possibly get to, wearing the correct gear, which has little utility in most scenarios.

My suggestion to this would be to bump up the value given by each +10 ring to double the value, +20.

Now I know this might sound crazy at first but think about it.

A ring offering +20 Defense would actually rival an Unbound HP ring in a lot more scenarios, making it worth using, all the while providing a sturdy boost to combat trigger to squishier classes and making it an actually viable choice.
A +20 Vitality ring, would reduce IC by a whole 1 second, contributing to more pet assistance and VIT/WIS natural regen.
+20 Wisdom would no longer be outclassed by an ST ring and would provide a very useful boost to wismod abilities, making it highly sought after for those wanting a stronger ability.
+20 Attack / Dexterity would actually out-dps other UT rings which is entirely the point, given that they are focused on 1 stat and 1 stat alone, no HP, no other mixed stats in the middle, just raw damage.
+20 Speed would give a very noticeable speed change, being a decent choice if one wants to have their speed on almost same tier as a dagger class, on any other slower class.

Of course, this would require that all rings created after this had in mind that they couldn’t go over 10 of any stat, to prevent this problem from repeating.

Example: Since rings would have their stat raised to +20, then perhaps it wouldnt be such a bad idea to start making rings with, perhaps, +11 ATT, +70 HP, +10 SPD, but this would slowly just lead to the same problem all over again, of UT/ST outclassing them so it would be important to keep in mind a limit.

Personally, the way I use to measure general stats of rings is by adding all the stat points together or if they are HP/MP, divide by 10 first and then add then to the total, since I find the utility of +10 HP/MP to be about the same as +1 of any other stat (which is also the reason why I suggested that HP/MP exaltations were bumped up to double their current value, in another thread). Likewise, negative numbers reduce the total by the amount, or divided by 10 if HP/MP.

This means a ring like crown provides +11 on HP, +6 * 2 (+12) which in total is +23, so already 3 points above any tiered ring in terms of total stats, which is understandable, given its rarity. This way, most more endgame Untiered rings stay at around 20-25 total stats, not going a lot further than that with a few exceptions such as Omnipotence Ring, boasting a huge +40 in total stats (but since that’s only 1 ring and is arguably very rare, it doesn’t hurt to have that exception).

Of course, with this rebalance to tiered rings, all other tiers would have to be rebalanced as well.

The way they increment right now makes little sense progression-wise. t1 hp gives +40, t2 gives +40 on top of the last tier (+80) then t3 gives +20? (+100) then t4 gives another +20 (+120) t5 gives yet another +20 (+140) and suddenly the last tier gives +40?? (+180)

What I have in mind is the following:

(I’m only adding the T0 for consistency)

T0 HP/MP - +?? -> +10
T0 Other - +1 -> +1

T1 HP/MP - +40 -> +20 (+10 increment)
T1 Other - +3 -> +2 (+1 increment)

T2 HP/MP - +80 -> +40 (+20 increment)
T2 Other - +5 -> +4 (+2 increment)

T3 HP/MP - +100 -> +70 (+30 increment)
T3 Other - +6 -> +7 (+3 increment)

T4 HP/MP - +120 -> +110 (+40 increment)
T4 Other - +7 -> +11 (+4 increment)

T5 HP/MP - +140 -> +150 (+40 increment)
T5 Other - +8 -> +15 (+4 increment)

T6 HP/MP - +180 -> +200 (+50 increment)
T6 Other - +10 -> +20 (+5 increment)

T7 HP/MP - +??? -> +250 (+50 increment)
T7 Other - +?? -> +25 (+5 increment)

Not only does this solve the inconsistent progression problem, it also follows the natural stats progression of the game.

The jumps from each tier to the next gets bigger as to reflect the game’s difficulty as well, correspondant to where they drop. In early game, a ring giving +20 HP is actually pretty nice, each hitpoint matters. Same for +2 defense or any other stat. Your early game stats are pretty mediocre so any boost to them makes a worthwhile impact as far as early game goes. As you progress tho, you’ll see that by always incrementing the same value, it won’t be long until stats are underwhelming considering whatever you’re facing and what was once useful is just a drop in comparison to your maxed stats paired with the difficulty of whatever dungeon you’re in. You’ll rarely find a use in a ring that only offers +1 stat than the previous tier (or +2 in Unbound Rings’ case).

Extra: This rebalance would put Ring of Decades in a weird spot. Currently it’s a direct upgrade to Unbound HP but with UBHP being buffed to +200 (to make all the stats more consistent and in line with each other), it would leave it between a T5 and a T6… so maybe adding a special proc to the ring of decades would do the work? Like an explosion of shards, similar to when you break the crystals in Fungal/Crystal Cavern, with each dealing a certain amount of damage. This one I leave up to the readers to fantazise about what it could do.


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#2

I made an suggestion similar to that a while back:

Close but no cigar, UBHP itself beats out all other UB rings combined. UBMP itself is rarely used too.

To that point, UBDef would almost be high as Heavy Armor. I can’t disagree the buff though. It would make some more use on Godland too.

That will able to compete with Crown/Potato.

If this buff gets implemented, I’m definitely going to slap my UBVits on all of my characters regardless petless or not.


#3

UBMP is only rarely used because of how important HP is the more endgame a dungeon is, that’s also one of the reasons why Def becomes less useful (especially in dungeons like O3) where having a lot of defense doesn’t really matter because every shot deals so much damage that you’re better just using HP to mitigate the damage. This is also one of reasons why I think they should add new bullet types that would decrease dealt damage by 2x or more, depending on the Defense of your character. Instead of 60 Def reducing the 300 damage shot to 240, for each defense point the shot would reduce damage by 2 (so 60*2 = 120; 300 - 120 = 180 damage taken) or more. It could also be a new stat added to bullets, so some would be regular (Damage - Defense) while others would have varying degrees of the Defense multiplier, making defense against them more effective (such as Damage - Defense * WhateverNameForThisThing) which would in turn make DEF more useful again. But that’s a topic for another thread.

That’s exactly the point of it. No point in having a Defense Ring if in all scenarios you’re better off using a UBHP instead.


#4

Even in casual gameplay (not raiding endgame dungeon as daily basis), it is still underused.

I was thinking similar idea too. But rather the amount of Defence you have reduces the damage by percentage. But as damage per shot increases, the Defence potency diminishes over each brasket.

Assume you have 90 Defence… (since it will reduce certain attacks to minimum).

1 to 100 Damage: 1:1 ratio.

100 to 150 damage: Capping 80%.

150 to 200 damage: Capping at 70%

200 or more damage: Capping at 60%.


#5

Thats cap


#6

I agree all the tiered rings apart from maybe the HP rings need to be improved as they are basically unplayable. Hopefully DECA reads this thread.

Same goes for most of the UT rings too.


#7

You dont take into account that UB rings are also available through trading?

Like when you say…

…you take into account that they all drop from the same place, but not about the rarity difference nor the fact that UT rings can’t be traded while tiered ones can.

No comparison can be made here; only things that have only one parameter that differs from the other.


#8

Tradability has nothing to do with how potent Tiered rings should be. If that’s the case then tiered weapons shoudn’t be usable either or be a lot less potent than they are. Before the new soulbound tiers came out, WC tops were the best for most scenarios and they were tradeable.

As I said, most UT rings (Soulbound) are around 20-25 in total stats, which is already above the T6 in total stats (if they were to be changed to +20). That edge is to account for the fact that they are rarer than tiered ones and soulbound. Even so, just because tiered are tradeable it doesn’t mean they should suck to the point of being unusable or be vastly underwhelming. The whole purpose of the tiered ring is to be the best on the stat it offers AND have just as much usability as an Acrop/T6 Lute/whichever tiered equipment you wanna choose compared to UT counterparts. Not be beaten out by every endgame UT ring. There’s a reason the harder the dungeon, the higher the Tier.

Currently, the only tiered items in the game that aren’t used and are considered bad, are the Tiered rings.

Weapons? Amazing.
Abilities? Awesome.
Armors? Spectacular.
Rings? eh… only if UBHP…

You forget that Deca, the best HP ring in the game (UT, mind you, and very rare) is a tradable ring and beats out all tiered. By your definition of it being tradeable then it shouldn’t be tradeable. But it is. Same for UBHP (apart from not being UT).

Tiered rings SHOULD be a viable choice as a ring. Just like the rest of the tiered equipment is useful too (whether those are Abilities, Weapons or Armors). It doesn’t matter if they are tradeable or not. They should be good enough for a player to consider using them.

Your argument seems to be that because they are tradable they shouldn’t have any practical use or that they shouldn’t threaten UTs when all the other tiered equipment does the same, as it should.

Sure its accessibility might be easier but someone will have to run the dungeon to get the item themselves.

Really, the only difference between Tiered and Untiered equipment is that tiered has multiple drop locations but as long as the drop location meets a certain difficulty and the drop rates are adjusted so they aren’t too common, it’s all good.

I don’t understand this whole thing of “because tradeable, should be worse”. If something is tradeable and good, then it will go up in price in the economy to reflect its usability, as simple as that. Tradability shouldn’t even be a factor in this conversation.


#9

even if it can be traded, the one item like crown has been so rooted as “best dps” that when we even hear suggestions to buff tiered rings (ubatk and ubdex), there’s always that one guy who complains about how it’ll outdps crown. Anyway T6 rings really shouldn’t be tradable, but they’re fine right now for being bad. If they were to be buffed I’d be ok with them being sb, I definitely wouldn’t groan as hard at that ubdex or smth from a cult run


#10

So should they add a new higher tier of the rings which would be soulbound like o3 tops ?


#11

Nah. I don’t think SB’ing it is a good idea. Even if the buff did took effect, I doubt vetty (I mean veteran) players would something something beside HP ring.

Here is the problem: Will others use non-HP ring after the buff? If majorities of players shook their heads, it is the best they should remain tradable.


#12

Honestly, if they decide to add T7 rings in the future, I’m fine with them being soulbound.

I do like things being tradable but since T13+ weapons, T14+ armors and T7(+) abilities are already soulbound, if they add T7 rings might as well make it consistent and make them soulbound too. All the other tiered items however (T12- weapons, T13- armors, T6- abilities and T6- rings) should remain tradable.

Doesn’t make much sense making T6 rings soulbound now, even if they are buffed. Unless they decide to make the WC tops the highest tradable tier, in which case T6 rings would already be above that league and therefore have a reason to be made soulbound.


#13

The only reason we only use unb hp is because it’s so much more stats on a relative sense that it makes all other unbs pointless in comparison, if they were buffed to compete, I can assure you many players would use them in a heartbeat as this playerbase isn’t just some zombies that only know “hp = best no matter what” they can do simple math, Sakura


#14

Can’t argue with that. I still find all the current UB rings have their uses.


#15

The discussion about buffing some UB rings reminded me of a thread with comparisons between def and hp in certain scenarios. Just in case people wanted to take these ideas into consideration for balancing purposes: Efficiency formula. (Finding your best armor/ring set)


#16

I use the formula of :
HP-(Number of shots*(Damage per shot-Defence)) to calculate the effectiveness.


#17

That’s pretty nice, thank you.

I used the maxed HP of an archer along with maxed DEF to calculate the following values and it seems that they are now a lot more balanced (with the +20/+200 buff).

If you are hit less than 10 times, a UBHP is better.

UBHP: 900-7*(100-25) = 375
UBDEF: 700-7*(100-45) = 315

If you are hit more than 10 times, a UBDEF is better.

UBHP: 900-12*(100-25) = 0
UBDEF: 700-12*(100-45) = 40

They show the same effectiveness at exactly 10 shots.

UBHP: 900-10*(100-25) = 150
UBDEF: 700-10*(100-45) = 150

As for Combat trigger:

The UBHP archer would have 22, making every 46 raw damage or less shot not activate IC.

While the UBDEF archer would have 35, making every 79 raw damage or less shot not activate IC.

Still makes UBHP reign in most endgame scenarios as usually 10 bullets is already enough to have you killed and their damage is so high that no matter your combat trigger, IC will be activated with each hit due to the high damage each shot does but you can already see, just by messing with numbers that it would be a lot more enticing to use, specifically on low DEF characters, where Combat Trigger has a much bigger effect.
And if they ever decide to add shots with a defense multiplier, then Def will definitely become more useful in endgame scenarios (the likes of o3).


#18

*furiously makes endgame dungeon that has bulllets specifically to put UBHP wearers in combat, but any more defense-oriented set not in combat*


#19

Absolutely not, you missed the point here. My reply wasnt even an argument to begin with. Your notion of ‘‘availability’’ was kinda off to me. You were including trading but not entirely, and the drop locations comparison were looking strange. I just wanted to clear out misunderstandings, thats all.

I don’t even think its a mindset people have.


#20

Couple of quick opinions here…

  • Tradeability should be considered. The majority of players are not in a position to acquire better rings.
  • Unbound rings drop from places they shouldn’t. They’re not endgame rings, but they come from endgame content.