UTs need to be changed


#6

I completely, absolutely agree. Purchasable ST sets should be no where fucking near the strength of O3 whites, 100% agree. I’d honestly rather have an elitist playstyle in Realm than Pay 2 Win. Anyways, I know my post was hella blocky and lengthy so you may have just skimmed over a really small part of it, but I unclearly state:

I hypothetically compare the items which were given new, reactive properties (to make them more fun/give players more options of desirable playstyles to choose from) to the ones which were left unchanged (because of how strong they already were), but I only compare these items to their respectful dungeon-tiered difficulty (meaning, UTs from Godlands should not be able to compete with shit in O3 after being given new properties). I should have included STs in there somewhere, but regardless, any items which were given new properties should not be stronger (only funner) than unchanged items that drop from harder and more difficult dungeons. Like you said, ST sets should be on par with midgame UTs, but if this concept of giving a ton of UTs new procs and abilities, you’d need to buff the STs to compete with those UTs (the midgame UTs, not end-game), not compete in a sense of which one’s stronger, but compete in the sense of which one’s funner.

I can see how this post seems like it’s jumping everywhere, but let me at least get this one thing straight: I do not promote the idea of making items absurdly strong (that’d only encourage the elitist playstyle that this game’s adopted, which I hate); I only promote the idea of making items more fun. Fun is the ONLY aspect in a PVE game that can actually “compete” with the META or an elitist playstyle that’s been forcibly adopted in Realm’s player base.


#7

tl;dr this is way too long


#8

Again, I can understand and see why my huge fucking post can seem like it’s arguing multiple topics all at once, but I never said that ST sets or Tiered weapons should be the “META” or good. “Good” from the sense of competing with end-game content and items. I specifically made this post to go against the current meta of Realm’s playstyle. The only way to have the absolutely most fun in Realm is to have the best items in the game, which is pretty fucking sad. I never made the argument to make ST sets “good” or “meta”, I simply said to buff ST sets so they can hypothetically compete with the newly changed UTs (with additive procs and abilities, only to make gameplay more fun and not viable or “meta”) from mid-game dungeons.

“…[ST sets] can’t survive without being good because they are outright not worth it”. Do you hear how fucking sad that sounds? Following that logic, ANYTHING that “isn’t good” or META isn’t worth it. Dude dude dude bro bro that shouldn’t be the fuuuuuuuuucking case man! My entire post is about how the game shouldn’t have to revolve around an elitist playstyle and, in turn, rather make the game more enjoyable and fun with more ADDITIVE features and properties. You’re just proving my point in how Realm players have have an elitist view on the game and have been forced to play a certain way for so long that we conflate “better” with fun, and that’s absolutely wretched. “It’s not good so it isn’t worth it”.

I never made that argument. Again, people conflate idea of “fun” with better. Did you misunderstand here?:

I only hypothetically claim how much less fun the end-game items (which were left unchanged) could be when compared to the UTs with newly given properties to add more spice, gameplay, and maybe a new desirable playstyle that the player wants to fit. Like I said here:

Next:

Hmmm, this rings a bell. Ah yes, ELITIST PLAYSTYLE that we’ve all been forcibly affixed to!!! YIPPIE!!! Dude, without a fucking doubt, if people were actually given the choice to either choose a playstyle that they aspire to create (using the variety of UTs that could have new properties to fit their builds) vs. a playstyle that’s forced onto the player and “META”, 10/10 would choose THEIR imaginative playstyle because it’s THEIRS and they want to have fun with it (but, if they choose to create a maximum efficiency build or what we’d call “META”, then they chose it because they aspire to it and that’s their way of fun). However, if I’m wrong and people still choose an elitist playstyle during end-game content, then that absolutely shouldn’t be the case. Metas shouldn’t exist in PVE games. We honestly shouldn’t even be able to use the word meta in Realm because everything that’s mid or end-game should be viable or semi-viable at least, but we’ve just been silently exposed to this elitist mindset for the past 10 years and can’t help the habit. Metas should only realistically exist in competitive PVP games with team comps and broken character combos. If your PVE game is heavily surrounded by a dominated META, then something wrong with your game. You should be given choices of playstyles to choose from and have fun through that lens of play experience, and not hindered by a single playstyle that’s only fun because it consists and involves the best items.

Why are you comparing your discussion you had with your gf about character distinctions to what my post has to say regarding the state of UT items and further say that the “examples” I provided are “…really bad”. Can you elaborate and explain whatever examples I gave are bad? I don’t really see any other example I provided other than the one I made between Bracer and Coronation, but that was only 1 example and you said “examples”. So, which other ones were bad?

I very much disagree. What about what they did with Doku? What about what they did with Resu? What about what they did with Kageboshi? They’ve made them more fun with new thematically implemented procs/passive abilities. You think what they did to those items were “Generally nothing”? Hm.

No. Have you heard of PoE (Path of Exiles)? This game offers an unimaginable amount of gameplay variety and adoptable playstyles due to it’s insane skill-tree and “item-socket” system. You can be a chaos warrior and deal chaotic damage which ignores all other forms of defense and health shields, or you can be a lightning-ice mage that can life steal with your freezing cascades. You can literally be whatever you want in PoE and it doesn’t limit the player to “find and make the best builds possible with whatever items they have”. They can create whatever build they want in order to have fun and it doesn’t always have to mean that it’s “the best”. Just because you have the best items doesn’t mean you need to use them in order to have the most fun. Anyways, I don’t like PoE due do it’s art style, i much prefer pixel art.


#9

Thank you for your contribution.

Anyways, don’t know if you saw the bright red, enlarged text at the top of the post, but I’ll just copy paste here just in case you didn’t :slight_smile:

Anyways, I feel like the rest of the post (not the first 9 paragraphs) is reasonably short, but whatever. If that’s even too long for you (Lol) then go play with your O3 whites/elitist playstyle ; )


#10

I don’t really see your point. You rail against the whole idea of people playing this game to have lots of good gear or exaltations instead of “fun,” which is something I agree with, but I think it’s inevitable in a lot of video games. Actually, the more I think about it, EVERY game (especially PVE) has this sort of problem.

Playing a PVE game competitively is going to be grindy and less dynamic. That the is nature of PVE. You’re always going to be chasing a number that’s probably flawed and has little indication of actual skill. (speedrunning being a possible exception since time is pretty objective, but oh boy it sure is grindy :wink: )

Also:

I may be missing something, but isn’t that the opposite of what you’re trying to say? Balanced procs are always going to be somewhat situational, or at least more situational than the default HP rings and DPS gear that people wear by default. Even the items with the best procs are carried as swap outs for situations that warrant their use


#11

yeah thats the part im asking the tl;dr for

instead of acting condescending, you should inspect your excessive verbiage. do you want to know how long it is? the paragraphs past the equal sign divider is over half the post. here let me post it for you:


" Anyways, what I’m trying to convey is that Realm is absolutely capable of offering a significantly more enjoyable experience that’s orientated through one’s imaginative playstyle rather than a linear, forced, and eventually limited “elitest” route of play with the best items in the game. This is why I believe all soon-to-come or all current early, mid, and end-game UT items, which’ve or which’ll innocently suffer from power creep due to the release of O3 or even newer end-game dungeons, should shed their one-dimensionally situational uses and be given life through the use of newly implemented thematic reactive, stackable, inflicting, or passive procs/abilities (with newly added pixel animations if need be, like the new Trickster Dagger) to allow more room of synergies and to satiate one’s desired imaginative playstyle and hunger for fun, regardless if it’s “viable” or not. (I definitely believe that enchantments and dungeon modifiers are a step in the right direction for keeping the game more fruitful, engaging, and fun, but those should only be assistors to the truly fun part of the game, which is your desired playstyle, and not the messiah to Realm’s only form/expressionism of additional fun.)

However, if this concept were to be successfully implemented, then that would theoretically mean that all items which were left unchanged were part of that power-creep pool, which would also mean that at least some of those items would soon become semi-obsolete because they’re less enjoyable or fun ( some items , such as the ones with sufficient, non-stimulating, and boring stat bonuses, like Divine Coronation) when compared to their competing same-tiered dungeon items who were giving new properties; thus, we need to compensate. To keep balance/consistency of these left over items, you could either go two ways: buff the according stats on the item if you want to go down that “former elitist/maximum efficiency build” playstyle or give it its own reactive/stackable/inflicting/passive proc(s)/ability(ies). I honestly shouldn’t even be calling it an “elitist” playstyle because now you’re choosing that specific route of play out of the several imaginative options you could’ve chose from (instead of forcibly only playing that playstyle because that’s the only way to have fun: with the best items in the game). Now, the group of players who seek the maximum-efficiency builds value fun from sheer strength found in the overwhelming amount of stat bonuses and n u m b e r s .

Regardless though, regardless of all the power creep and O3 items and the forcibly dominating playstyle among Realm’s player base, I believe that in order to make this game more fun, there should be generally more UTs with thematically implemented passive, activated, inflicting, or stackable procs/abilities to allow players to create their own synergized playstyles. If this concept hypothetically works and Deca gets worried about not making as much money because these new UT items will compete with ST mystery boxes, JUST REWORK or BUFF the inconvenient and self-harming/useless ST sets to compete with their respectful mid-game UTs that received new game mechanics and properties.

Anyways, if you guys found this post interesting, you should really consider checking out this guy’s recent content because he actually takes time in providing clean and respectable reworks to some unloved items. He was the one who actually gave me the final nudge in writing this rant simply because he showed me that there are people like him in this community who are willingly open to new ideas and are inspired enough in making the game more stimulating and fun through reactive properties. So, again, thank you Dark Sou- I mean @Pomfers.

If you actually made it through, congrats here’s a vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4w48Zw8Zy8&ab_channel=Harveygotbored

Anyways, let me know whether you guys think we should have more UTs with reactive, stackable, inflicting, or passive procs in order to offer much more fun and variety to your Realm experience or if the devs should just focus on buffing/reworking ST sets? Let me know what you think down below. Thanks for reading!"


if this is a tl;dr then you must read shakespeare while doing rotmg or something

I read your whole post and will continue to enjoy o3 whites, so I’m not sure what this means. I think you are trying to be rude, but you should phrase yourself better

With the excessive amount of words in your post (along with an unlikeable attitude) I can’t take you seriously. You should try to show the essence of your argument and suggestions, rather than repeat the same things over again and have unnecessary buildup.


#12

It was never my intention to make it seem like I’m railing people or despising/hating on anyone who has top of the line gear or max exaltations. I’m simply trying to convey that I think it is severely flawed that the most effective way in playing and having the most possible fun in Realm is only achievable with the best, current items (thus, I rant about the whole elitist/meta concept and how I find it so aggravating). Additionally, the only thing that I “railed” against was how Deca has forced Realm’s player base to adopt a dominating elitist playstyle. Our choices are significantly hindered and limited when it comes to having the most enjoyable experience in Realm. For example, if you compare someone’s enjoyability with Void Blade to Enforcers, who do you think is gonna have a better or more enjoyable time. Now, I know I’m comparing a godlands white to an O3 white, but that’s exactly the point. We have a very marginalized, forced, and narrow region of play experience in Realm simply because of the way Deca has implemented newer, end-game content.

I also completely agree that it’s inevitable for every game to experience it’s small share of metas, regardless if it’s PVE or PVP. But Realm’s overwhelming dominant meta is clearly apparent when compared to a lot more games under that PVE umbrella. There shouldn’t be a dominant meta in any game. Everything should be fun or viable. Sure, there can be some degree of meta, but it shouldn’t so overwhelming to the point where there’s only one way to enjoy the game to it’s absolute max.

I guess this is just a “me thing” and don’t understand why people play PVE games competitively, but I welcome and acknowledge players who strive for that aspect of PVE titles. However, it’s important to realize that everyone’s number 1 priority, without even thinking about it, is to objectively have fun regardless if you’re playing it casually or competitively.

Nah, you’re not missing anything. I replied to someone else’s post earlier regarding a similar topic:

Anyways, what I think I was initially trying to argue in regards to the current title of the post, I’m pretty sure I was (or am) trying to convey that items like EP shouldn’t be only limited to dungeons like O3. It should have it’s own, uniquely implemented proc or stackable ability to add a bit of variety and offer players a possible option in additional “synergy” for their desired playstyle. Anything that’s “considered” a swap out now could be used as a main weapon, ability, armor, or ring if this concept were to make it (hypothetically) depending on what type of playstyle the person wants to pursue.


#13

Again, I apologize if the post seems like I posses a condescending manner, but I’m not personally attacking anyone who choses to play a forced playstyle. Like I’ve said multiple times:

Etc. The only issue I have with anyone is with how Deca has instilled a clearly dominant meta around Realm’s enjoyability.

As for this part:



The first “half” you’re talking about (which I encourage people to skip if they don’t want to read 9 paragraphs of buildup) has 1095 words. The last “half” that you’re claiming to be more than the first only has 683 words. If you don’t want to read it: DON’T READ IT and make me feel like an asshole for expressing how I feel towards the game.

Just curious, I don’t want to start an argument, but can you see how saying:

is a little insensitive and provoking?


#14

Sorry if it did

From my experience, usually when someone says you’ve written too long its more of a compliment/criticism

compliment in the way that you have a lot of interesting thoughts

and criticism in the way that you haven’t compressed those ideas

D: I didn’t mean to make you feel that

also cmon bruh past 500 words its basically the same. And a 683 word tl;dr is a bit too excessive

i do agree with your takes, but many won’t be convinced because of how much there is too unpack. only very dedicated people would bother reading, and those dedicated people are a small minority.


#15

Yeah, I getchu. I feel like I’m just starting to realize that Realm’s probably not the place to write an excessively long rant considering how simple and non-complex the game is. I just have a really hard time with my word economy and effectively/concisely conveying a simple-to-follow argument that’s not overwhelming. I’ll try my best to chip down any paragraphs/bits that have unnecessary words. I appreciate the feedback :slight_smile: Thank you.


#16

As Mark Twain once said, “I didn’t have time to write you a short letter, so I wrote you a long one .”


#17

U dont have to be offended by dragonRage the weeb. he gets roasted by meteors in o3.


#18

“Raphiel Ainsworth Shiraha”


#19

that’s mwean >:(


#20

What’s the problem with Raphiel Ainsworth Shiraha

Thats my name.


#21

Reading reopened the question in my mind: What is it that drives the elitist players (in general) to keep going? What is fun about having such a limited array of equipment to wear or dungeons to run?

I’ve never joined any of the well known Discords, and only briefly been a guest in a small handful of higher ranking guild Discords via invitation from former guildies. Those were… very different experiences, to say the least, but it didn’t help me get much closer to solving that mystery. Granted, what I’m going off are relatively small samples, but the people I observed seemed very bored, and often frustrated if things didn’t go precisely as planned. There was occasionally talk of how far they could go in trolling without getting caught/banned in a couple runs I was in, and nearly always this inferiority complex set to where watching others die was a form of entertainment!

Admittedly, there are times and situations where people getting cocky, bursts of deaths after certain comments, etc. can be funny, but this was more the type that was feeding off the suffering of others’ losses. Is that the only glimmer of entertainment for some elitists? The only thing I saw was maybe having the social aspect of VC conversations for some, but that’s not always an option for larger Discords.

The last point of heard from many word-of-mouth sources was that “obtaining the loot” was what made the game fun… not the content itself??? Does all this game amount to is a glorified loot box for some people? A lottery machine with extra steps? (I don’t understand what makes gambling fun either, to be honest. Logically far more lost than gained from that arena.)

Mayhaps addiction is the drive, or an obligation to stay after so much money has been sunk, with an unwillingness to let the game go in either case. I wouldn’t think that to be true for so many players, but, perhaps that assessment is incorrect (hopefully…)?

I am well aware of how shallow the game can be in its current state. I’ve been around enough people who quit the game who like to complain about that as one of the many problems with it, and to some small degree, I agree. But, I like watching the game grow, so I stick around. I’d personally rather see a better realm than the next set of white bags, but improving the old dungeons is a good step.

Sorry for that senseless rant. This topic reopened old mild pains I’ve had with a few games, not just this one. :frowning:


#22

Well, not only am I glad to see that there are other’s with similarly open-ended questions regarding the state of Realm’s enjoyment, but I’m also reassured to hear that there are other’s with that curiosity who’ve also seen first hand/observed a measurement or output to their possible questions. Anyways, I enjoyed reading your “senseless rant” (it wasn’t I genuinely enjoyed it) and the way you concisely manner your words.

And just one last thing (for transparency’s sake), again, I have nothing against the players who’ve been forcibly affixed/adopted to a clearly dominant meta that’s been instilled by the game Devs. Not only that, but it also seems like, from your observations, that even people with some of the best items in game have a hard time in actually enjoying it without the use of “3rd party” factors (such as voice calls or deaths of characters).

stop getting likes ur gonna ratio me


#23

It was interesting to read your thoughts about the power creep situation, and I agree with a lot of your points. I’m not sure exactly how RotMG could implement this system, and I don’t know if you’ve heard of the game before, but I think The Binding of Isaac does an incredible job at addressing an elitist mindset. This is due to the fact that even items that would normally be put in a low tier on a tier list can be great when combined with other items or used in certain situations. Now I know that it’s hard to compare a permadeath game to one that takes about an hour or so to complete a “run,” but I think there’s potential with item synergies in RotMG too, sort of like BoI has. And yes, many BoI players are always looking for items that increase DPS like brimstone, pentagram, etc., but even items that generally put a frown on your face when you see them have their uses with certain items/chars, or against particular enemies. Anyway I talked more about Isaac than RotMG (oops) but I also think Deca is going in the right direction with adding enchantments since there’s more than just DPS that can give a weapon/armor/etc. that extra edge that it might have been missing. Procs are another thing that I think they’re doing good with for the most part since it’s more than just stats, though I wish more of them would be about something other than taking a certain amount of damage for it to trigger.


#24

var crippling addiction = 100;
var loots = 0;
3. lumi is a very fun weapon to use
4. top dmg and epic gaming plays

and people do a bit of trolling by doing top dmg epic gaming plays with t9 staves and t3 robes, and ive seen people carry around t6 daggers and souls guidance

so its not really that limited, in fact in the right places its really chill

those are usually higher ranking ones
but most of the time we are joking around
and you know the drill; make fun of your friends and guildies as much as you can if they die
but they know you dont really mean it

thats just people being mean, guess your sample size was unlucky

usually ironic, but people can be like this
they want efficiency to get maximum loots, because thats what keeps them going.

its the thrill
and also for stuff like thicket you usually grind it after losing tenne somewhere else, so you really want it back
and usually people are giving simplified answers, im sure they enjoy doing the dungeon they are doing to an extent

human psychology is weird, but at the end of the day this game has been designed for you to keep on going and never stopping


#25

Yea no problem man. I think comparing other games flushed-out PVE games, which fill in the missing gaps that Realm has, to Rotmg is valuable because we can clearly see what Realm can improve on. And I completely agree; enhancements sound like a definite step in the right direction to add more spice and synergized fun to Realm’s current state (I just hope that enchantments won’t be the only way to express one’s seeked/desired playstyle).

And yes! If this concept were to hypothetically take place, I think more UTs with more reactive procs (regardless if they’re all just “taking damage” based) with add more flavor and variety too Realm’s play experience. But yea, I too hope that ideally they’d add more unique properties rather than just “when taking damage”/“when in combat”.