Why is Nest so unpopular?


#104

Yes. Void is almost all brute damage, which is not too hard to avoid.

Nest, however, is filled with a shit ton of status effects and many of the shot patterns are unreasonably hard to avoid.


#105

The Nest is a great dungeon, filled with great UTs and a really constructive boss fight. Itā€™s a shatters level dungeon, and just as hard and sometimes harder on some levels(if you donā€™t know how to dodge)

Though, why donā€™t people do it?

Seven main reasons:

  1. The instant shotguns. The instant shotguns also happen to be in the most hardest-bullet hell phases (the second to last phase)
  2. The goddamn minions and clearing involved. As well as the
  3. Length of the dungeon. Oh yeah, and the
  4. Lack of teleportation.
  5. Small as shit boss room. You literally get 70 tiles for the boss room, and only 30 to walk around on.
  6. Status effects. Mainly confuse.
  7. THE FUCKING DROPRATES ARE SHIT

So, the 7 ways that Deca can improve the dungeon itself?

  1. Less damage; enough to severely cripple a 700 hp character to 200, but for fuckā€™s sake not the 720 damage shotguns in a cramped space which make it practically impossible to predict and dodge.
  2. Remove confuse. Like fucking please.
  3. Add teleportation. One of the reasons why the Nest event recently was SO popular was because there was teleportation. Have an anchor and you can teleport out of danger, thus negating the huge threat of ā€˜do or dieā€™ in the Nest. Also, other epic dungeons have teleportation, so why not the Nest? Maybe teleportation would be ridiculously overpowered, hell, IDK, maybe make teleportation in The Nest 20 seconds instead of 10; just let us do the Nest (a little bit more) safely.
  4. Make the Nest smaller, like the Abyss (it got a rework and is shorter now, I believe)
  5. Boss room should be bigger.
  6. Lower the HP of the minions to begin with, and add HP scaling like in Parasite Chambers so itā€™s soloable. Just a thought.
  7. Buff droprates of whites, guaranteed Greater Dex, guaranteed Mana, guaranteed Life to 5 people (to encourage big groups). Too rewarding? The Marble Colossus drops less pots than this, you might say. Granted, the MBC also drops endgame tops and is so much easier and so much more accomplishable in big groups - which the Nest doesnā€™t have.

Now, thatā€™s 7/10.

The other 3 have to do with the event itself.

First, a little background.

Last year, I went into hiatus - around 3-4 months. Unfortunately, I picked the absolute worst time to go into hiatus. October to February. Basically I missed the Halloween event, Thanksgiving event, and the Christmas event. I missed my chance for a jugg, oreo (fuck ogmur), sweet skins, tomb rings (which I still donā€™t have enough of; 20 fucking sphinx rings, 3 niles, 1 pyra, and 1 suicidal death wish for not getting any good tomb rings), and most importantly, the freezing quiver.

Since I missed my chance, I was super depressed for like 4 months ever since coming back to realm. And archer is one of my favorite classes. You could imagine my hype when they released a permanently obtainable version of the quiver, the Beehemoth quiver.

For the first few weeks since the nest event came out, everyone was so hyped and was doing the nests a lot. Me, unfortunately, with a bad guild at that time, couldnā€™t get any nest keys, nonetheless finish them anyways.

So, I did public nest events. I was living in fear of the dungeon itself though, seeing so many Reddit posts about deaths at the hands of the Killer Queen Bee. (Iā€™ve only done 3 nests to this date)

I must have ground out like 300~ nest events. That translates to about 900 beehemoths, and while youtubers were just getting the beehemoth quivers on their first try, casually doing a Nest on their ppe.

And I got:

0 Armors

0 quivers

shitton of pots

Some people actually want the whites, so hereā€™s an idea:

  1. Buff the droprates of the Beehemoth Quiver, and publically announce it. Maybe a buff by 2x would be decent enough.
  2. Reduce the fucking hp of the beehemoths and the mini nest colonies surrounding it. The main reason why the event isnā€™t done is because itā€™s so goddamn tedious, and thatā€™s because of how long it takes to destroy the bee nests. The beehemoths arenā€™t dangerous themselves as long as you have the sense not to run headfirst at them.
  3. Reduce the amount of mini nest colonies.

#106

Agreed on most points. The realm-spawned event is garbage, the amount of status effects is insane, and the dungeon is probably impossible to solo start-to-finish. Also, who does every single enemy need a rage phase? The amount of invulnerability and rage phases is completely unnecessary. The dungeon and event were totally over-worked. If they nerfed it across the board, or added teleportation in the dungeon and reduced the time it took to do the event at least, I donā€™t think the drop rates would need to be buffed.

As it stands, it seems like there are no dedicated nest groups anymore, despite it being end game, like the Shatters.


#108

So basically you are complaing that the dungeon is to hard for you?

The only real problem I see with the dungeon is a lack of reward and the unscaled hp


#109

#110

Please explain whats so stupid.


#111

Only the final bee drops armor and quiver. The armor is not that rare from the event so you probably overestimated 300.


#112

Thatā€™s kind of the challenge. Itā€™s not too hard to dodge the shots.

Learn confuse controls or dodge confuse.

Teleportation would enable leeching which is exactly what deca is trying to prevent. Just follow the group, the nest event was popular because it meant extra loot, which is the reason every event is popular.

The size is fine, and Abby is longer then nest room wise, and changing it to Abby length is the opposite of what you want lol

Itā€™s the perfect size. Too big and boss is a joke.

I agree with hp scale for sure

White drop rate is extremely high, greater Dex is already guaranteed. 5 life is insane, please no. Definitely disagree about nest not being accomplishable in large groups, nest got steamrolled during event.

But you previously just said people were getting it often. I feel like your just salty about not getting it tbh. Itā€™s already common compared to other event whites like jugg.

Agree with both of these.


#113

In other perspective
It too hard for most player


#114

Only changes nest needs is better loot and nerfing the yellow bee rage mode, its way too fast and will catch you and pretty much insta you.


#115

the number of shotguns used by enemies in the nest is extremely small, especially in comparison to the tomb of the ancients whose bosses utilize them almost exclusively. the real reason is the sustained volley of spread-out projectiles, requiring you to dodge constantly instead of the occasional shotgun.

fair

also a concern

stops rampant leeching, which is the REAL reason the nest event was popular. tons of people actually leeched past the boss itself and only went after the chest. and even more people tpā€™d outside the boss room when it went into rage phases to avoid death once they got sb.

again, no hiding, no leeching. another advantage is that is forces you into close range anyway, giving melee classes fair opportunities for sb instead of lod-style projectile walls barring melee participation.

I mean seriously, itā€™s not undodgeable, and itā€™s not unmanageable if you get hit

well, I donā€™t know about you but I see a ton of bee helms every now and then. and on top of this:

Iā€™m not sure youā€™re qualified to make that call

I donā€™t actually know what your problem with that phase is. once you actually get used to it dodging said shotgun is pretty simple

see above .gif ^

see above, again the real reason the nest event was popular was because it enabled leechers

this I donā€™t have a problem with

how much bigger? Iā€™d be okay with an extra tile width on the bridge ring, but not with turning it into an ot/tomb/cdepths sized arena. those rooms have way too much room to hide and do nothing

hp scaling on nest minions isnā€™t a bad idea, it would definitely help out smaller groups. also just an FYI: mrunibro soloed the nest on all 14 classes during testing. itā€™s technically soloable now.

yes

anecdotal evidence, and possible exaggerated too. means nothing. based on everyone elseā€™s experience Iā€™d have to say itā€™s already among one of the more common event whites.

this is definitely a problem. in total they have nearly half the hp of the avatar (which is a lot), but unlike the avatar or even the lost sentry they are all very fast, very mobile, and have a very wide range to fly around in. in fact, no other event boss is as mobile or hard to hit as the 3 beehemoths, yet each one individually has more hp than every other event boss save for the avatar, the lost senty, and the jade/garnet statues (theyā€™re tied with these two). for one of the most intense dungeons in the game, they really have a very boring and grind-y event boss

this would also be a welcome change, as it reduces the grind portion of the event boss.



while you have a couple good points (probably the most common ones out there anyway), most of this sounds like someone with insufficient experience trying to get the second hardest dungeon in the game made into something easier to swallow. itā€™s not happening. try getting some more experience in beyond those 3 nests you did, a lot of people are scared of it not just because itā€™s hard, but because itā€™s new.


#116

While I agree that the nest is a challenging dungeon, I think it unfairly punishes players who get hit by any of the shots with crippling status effects like armor broken pet stasis, and paralyze.

ā€œLearn confuse controls or dodge confuse.ā€

Sounds simple enough right?

The average human response time to stimuli is about a fourth of a second.

You have to switch your mind to a different way of moving your character for a few seconds,then switch back when you are no longer confused. It says on the wiki, ā€œDonā€™t count on your ability to tank the shots: you must dodge everything to the best of your ability or you will die.ā€ So when my own physics limitations can make me unable to finish a dungeon I feel slightly cheated.

ā€œDefinitely disagree about nest not being accomplishable in large groups, nest got steamrolled during event.ā€ Of course the boss and dungeon are going to get obliterated when there are literally more than a hundred maxed characters attacking it!!! What else would happen?

ā€œBut you previously just said people were getting it often. I feel like your just salty about not getting it tbh. Itā€™s already common compared to other event whites like jugg.ā€

Neither of these items are common by any means. When I see more people with freezing quivers than with the bee quiver I know why. Itā€™s because people wanted to do the tomb event. If you go on realmeye right now, more of the top 100 archers have the freezing quiver than the beehemoth quiver.
No one does the event, so nearly no one has the quiver.

"the number of shotguns used by enemies in the nest is extremely small"
This is just total BS. The boss has it, the secret boss has it. And all of the soldier bees chase you down and fire omnidirectonally, or in simpler terms, a radial shotgun. These enemies are the core of the dungeon and the main reason the nest is one of the more debated dungeons in terms of legitimate difficulty.

@Xaklor says:
" rampant leeching, which is the REAL reason the nest event was popular."

Or the fact that it gave two of the items with the highest feed power in the game :thinking:

ā€œtons of people actually leeched past the boss itself and only went after the chest.ā€

I think it really says something about the dungeonā€™s design when people donā€™t even want to participate in completing the boss.

ā€œalso just an FYI: mrunibro soloed the nest on all 14 classes during testing. itā€™s technically soloable now.ā€

Wow, thatā€™s amazing!!1!1!! Did the guys over at the kool kids club i mean the closed testing group by any chance happen to record this amazing feat??? What? No? You mean you have no way to verify this already far fetched claim? What a shameā€¦

ā€œagain, no hiding, no leeching. another advantage is that is forces you into close range anyway, giving melee classes fair opportunities for sb instead of lod-style projectile walls barring melee participation.ā€

You donā€™t have to force players into an extremely small space in order to engage everyone in the fight. One of the few things I like about the lost halls is the marble colossusā€™s fight for the most part. It has its fair amount of dodging and weaving, but nothing too crazy. It has phases that sort of act like a break for the main part, where the nest is lacking such a break to reorient yourself. This coupled with an often massive group of players makes the nest a very chaotic environment that doesnā€™t really allow you to learn much about the boss from completing it. All in all, I agree with OP. I would rate the dungeon
5/10. Good concept but not everyone is that patient or skilled and is often just left dissatisfied with the dungeon.


#117

This gets banded about a lot. I can fully believe itā€™s true but thereā€™s two points to this:

  1. He designed and refined the shot patterns so not really quite the learning curve there.
  2. He had an infinite number of keys (and I assume characters) to accomplish this task.

Make no mistake, Iā€™m not criticising this feat which I couldnā€™t achieve under any circumstances but he did have quite the advantage over everyone elseā€¦


#118

because not every people can play good, like our nest creator mrmunibro who solo it with warrior 70/70 heal electricā€¦ i agree for nerf this dungeon a lil bit (tbh ever since this dungeon release my milestone clear nest only 7 times , and now deca remove nest event requirement for close realms, itā€™s almost impossible to normal players like me to get mark)


#119

There is a discord for nests.


#120

can you PM me invite?.. thanks before


#121

Teleporting and a closed-wall boss room do not go well together because it promotes abuse such as scripting auto-teleport to get players out into safety of an ā€œanchorā€ player.

I personally would prefer they abolish the closed room mechanism and allow players to back away from the fight to heal/etc. I love soloing O2 with all that space in his room to run around, and go in on attack runs, much more than I enjoy a minimal movement close-range dodging like Killer Bee Queen requires. The game just doesnā€™t seem consistently reliable enough with lag and inaccurate movement, to me, to try to do Touhou style battles, and I end up feeling like Iā€™m trying to untie a shoelace knot while playing Operation, or something.

But the main flaw IMO with this type of fight is because Rotmg has a learning process being learn-through-errors, it is a catch-22 as it gives no opportunity to observe the fight, and gradually increase your participation, because you have to be right in the centre throughout. It pushes players to cheat-methods, because nobody wants to waste effort on a character to die ā€œstupidlyā€, but you canā€™t get that experience easily with KBQ being held behind the Nest (event) which nobody does, the slow slog of the dungeon itself, and then having so many phases, each of which needs learning, and any mistake results in end of game.

There are so many individual small problems with Nest (event) + The Nest, that just each thing compounded on the next makes it just completely unappealing to the majority, and ultimately itā€™s a waste of good ideas & potential fun content.


#122

I want to tackle only one part.

Dungeons of ā€œextremeā€ difficulty sadly will never have a loot table.

Loot is one of the hardest things to choose when making these dungeon if the devs make the loot too little then no one wants to run it. If itā€™s decent loot (as it currently is) then no one wants to run it.
If itā€™s slightly better then decent loot then trains will do it all day mass looting and as such the dungeon will never be ā€œhardā€


#123

#Itā€™s not too hard to dodge the shots.
#Learn confuse controls or dodge confuse.


#124

what deer was that?