Why Tome of Pain needs a rework

#30

That’s better than most skulls and has a wider radius. Sure you have to get close, but this is a pretty decent crowd control item if you can avoid taking damage too quickly.

#31

Ok since multiple people have replied to my posts I’m going to answer all of them in 1 reply. Sorry if that isnt the right way of responding, I’m new to posting on forums and I dont know all the tools for responding to multiple comments.

RMGnoob

You’re asking for a Priest ability that requires to get within melee range of an enemy.

I never explicitly said that the range should be decreased to melee range. One of my earliest comments was that the tome has mediocre damage, range and heal, which does not fit in line with its fellow dungeon UTs. Which all sacrifice 1 aspect of a normal tiered ability to enhance another one to the extreme.

You said you wanted an item that does a lot of damage in a small range on a robe class.

I’m sorry when did I say this? I’ve gone through and read all my responses and I have yet to see where I’ve explicitly stated that I wanted “a lot of damage in a small range”. In my initial post to this thread, I even said

So in my ideal world, a reworked tome should have just a healing effect with a lot more damage and range.

I never mentioned decreasing the range, I actually mentioned the opposite. Increase the range of the tome and buff its damage but make its healing capacities close to zero.
So for example, I would prefer to see a tome that has a range of 7, just a healing effect and an increased amount of damage(ideally in the 600 range).
If I’m mentioned otherwise to my initial post, I apologize for any misunderstandings that may have arisen. I still stand by the ideas posed in my initial post.

so you’re right, not all enemies will die long before reaching the Priest. Just most enemies in godlands and godlands dungeons.

I don’t want to take a jab at you, but have you recently played priest outside of a large group? Most enemies in the godlands and godlands dungeon dont die very fast when you play priest. They take a fair amount of time to kill.

You know what I think the problem is here? You just want a “speed up the boss fight” button for your Priest. You want to play solo, on a class that does enough damage to kill bosses quickly, and you don’t care about heals. I’m sorry but it really looks to me like you just want to play any class other than Priest.

Yes I want to speed up the boss fight for priests, if a DPS tome exists in game for priests it should do something to boost its mediocre damage up to something reasonable. Unless you’re saying that all priests should have to suffer through extended boss fights and clears when playing solo?
What I want for the Tome of Pain is for it to give Priests the option to switch to a higher DPS build. And yes it already does offer a higher DPS for priests but I’m saying there’s room for improvement.

ThatsMyJam

I feel like the other two parasite whites are based on adding dps to the classes theyre used for, but with some sort of catch. Devastation only has one/two targets and recurring terror is stationary. Tome of Pain doesn’t fit into the theme. It really doesn’t drastically increase your dps for some sort of drawback.

Yes, thank you. That is precisely the issue I’m having with the tome atm. Tome of Pain doesn’t fit the theme of its dungeon’s whites. It should sacrifice something to buff something else but it attempts to do both and ends up being in a mediocre middleground.

420 damage is absolute childsplay. Not worth the reduced heal. Have it give you healing and no instant heal and increase damage, or increase heal.

Yes again, 420 damage is in the middle of nowhere. Its not a low amount but neither is it a high amount, its an average amount of damage.

Ickabod

In my opinion it is currently the best tome in the game after wismod is applied. Being able to fully heal yourself and kill everything around you at the same time is pretty OP.

You don’t fully heal yourself, its heal is 180 which is quite low.

JimdaFish

That’s better than most skulls and has a wider radius. Sure you have to get close, but this is a pretty decent crowd control item if you can avoid taking damage too quickly.

Yes, but you sacrifice your healing capacities for the damage.

Foobu

lol somebody got a white they didnt like so they want it reworked

Yes I dislike what the Tome represents, a failed attempt at making some sort of DPS tome. I would have much preferred it if Deca just didn’t introduce a DPS tome into the game, rather than come up with this very half done item in my opinion.

I hope I’ve responded to everyone who replied to my post. I’m seeing some ideas being thrown around about bleeding and DoT which is pretty cool.

#32

I’m sorry if I made an incorrect assumption, but you probably shouldn’t have left it vague for that long if what I was saying about your idea was incorrect.

I don’t really see how that fundamentally changes how the Tome of Pain is used and against what. Just wearing a more Wis-oriented set on your Priest with the current version of T-Pain would likely have very similar results, only with a burst heal instead of a regen buff.

The only ones that take too long to kill are the ones you’re supposed to avoid and just rush past, such as most Mad Lab mobs for example. Just shoot behind you with a Recomp as you rush and everything else should die before it can touch you.

Why would you solo godlands dungeons on a Priest if you still need to fully clear them? For that matter, why would you solo anything on Priest??

Don’t get me wrong, I still like the idea of having a Tome that deals damage if only because that means there’s a new way to play Priest, but if we’re going to assume anyone who gets a T-Pain has a good pet and decent enough characters to run Parasites consistently then there’s no reason to assume those players wouldn’t be able to rush an Abyss or Puppet.

Funnily enough, T-Pain is probably better in Shatters (hitting mobs and switches from behind walls) or Tomb (as a “BEGONE SCARABS” emergency button) than in most godlands dungeons, even as your ideal version of it.

#33

Not really, even with a wis based set you won’t reach those numbers.

Because all classes should be able to be played solo. If priest is meant to be a team only class, then why would Deca make a DPS tome that only excels when you’re playing solo? In every other situation in which you’re in a group, there is no point in switching to a T-pain as even with the additional damage you’ll still be lacking versus other classes. I just feel that the tome was a very sloppily planned idea and would much rather it.

And as ThatsMyJam stated

The tome of pain just doesn’t fit in with the dungeon whites. It just feels out of place. Wizard and Sorcerer are both ranged DPS classes, so wouldnt it be more in line for DECA to introduce the 3rd UT to another ranged DPS class like the necromancer instead of trying to make some sort of half done DPS tome for priest.

#34

To be fair, knowing the instant heal is only slightly more than a Geb Tome is slightly worrying.
However, I think you’re underestimating 420 damage; there’s quite a few things that can be (near)instakilled with a single use.
Additionally, it cuts weaker gods’ HP in half with one usage - which, to me, sounds very appealing.

Anyway, @GotZillion can you give me the values of the tome at varying wis values? Preferably, from what point on wismod affects it, and the increase per wis from that point on. Thanks in advance <3

#35

Sure thing, my wizard died today so I have a fresh character to slowly level up on wis and check values.

I’ll probably show progress for every 10 wis values up to 75 and then every 5 afterwards.

#36

I feel like Tome of Pain should do way more damage but not heal, or heal less. The problem I see with this is the following.

Priest is supposed to be a support class, exchanging damage for healing, buffing and overall keeping his allies alive. In the current state of the game, where people play for themselves, this feeling of wanting to help others has mostly disappeared, making the sight of people going away from the group to only use their ability on themselves a common sight.

We also see people using more commonly items that boost their own stats/dps and ignore others. The problem I see is that if Deca made the Tome of Pain a really good offensive item, most priests would only play this item, leaving other classes with a lack of healing.

I’ve seen something similar happen on a pserver before (not gonna give any names, since that’s against the rules). There used to be a tome that had crazy healing, but only on a very small area around the priest. The original use was to give priests a way to heal their allies and themselves much more efficiently, but with the difficulty of having less healing range.

What happened in the end was : most priest decided to play with this item because of the better healing, but ignored their allies, only keeping the heal for themselves. It made it so that it became very rare to find an actual healer, making end-game content really dangerous except if you were actually playing as those priests.

As much as I want a good dedicated dps item for priest, I don’t want that to happen to the actual game.

#37

Have you seen the number of Skulls already in this game? Including ET for single-target damage, ST skull and LH skull for self-buffing your DPS?

That’s already contentious in a MMO game, but even if I grant you that, being playable solo does not mean being good at solo clearing.

Again, why would you full clear dungeons on a class that’s practically made to rush?

Is there that much of a difference between 500 damage for a range of 6 and 600 damage for a range of 7? Does it change what mobs you can instakill? Does it change how many tome usages you need to clear godlands?

You see, all this time you’ve been calling this a DPS tome, but that’s just factually wrong.

Any ability that does damage can only ever be considered burst damage. When it comes to actual damage per second, those abilities almost always fall short.

Even your ideal version of T-Pain with a maxed out Divine would only add 300 to 400 to the Priest’s DPS, that is to say maybe a 15 to 20% increase (not to mention it’s not a flat increase since T-Pain doesn’t ignore enemy Def).

If Deca wanted to make an actual DPS Tome, they would’ve made one that gives you Damaging or Berserk on use, not this thing.

#38

Their vision looks more like this, seemingly…

#39

I understand the number of skulls in game and thats why I understand why DECA chose to put a tome UT instead of a skull UT in the dungeon. I’m just saying conceptually, a skull would fit much more in line with the dungeon’s theme. I would have even preferred if they hadn’t have added a tome UT to the dungeon and simply kept it to 2 very well made UTs. Instead of 2 good UTs and 1 mediocre one.

You make a fair point there. Ive mentioned in previous comments that I would’ve preferred it if DECA hadn’t have released any damaging tome for priest and instead kept in line with the class theme.

Maybe for other classes this wouldn’t be considered DPS but for priest its good enough to be considered DPS. A maxed priest with tops does under half the damage of nearly any maxed class with tops. Priest’s dps is simply that low that I would consider this to be a DPS tome.

[Album] Imgur

I guess a damaged based tome for priest is essentially a flawed idea, considering the class’s specs and its purpose. T-pain’s current state just screams mediocrity to me, but I guess that’ll have to stay.

+15 dex isn’t actually that bad. Its a 200 DPS increase at 0 def that remains quite constant until past 60 def or so. And thats without the scaling in effect with berserk, damaging and the piercing ability of wands. Honestly, if DECA does release a tome like that into the game, I’m going to be wondering why did they release a flawed Aoe damage tome earlier?

#40

You could make this theme fit with any ability type in the game. Ever wanted a Quiver that fires face-huggers?

That’s only with a maxed Divine. Maxed Legendary would make the Tome drop to about 150 DPS. Maxed Rare would be way below 100.

Even if you buffed it, T-Pain would still be much better at bursting down trash mobs than at sustaining DPS.

Yeah, it’s pretty much bound to have only a few specific niche usages or else it’d be broken as hell. Imagine a 2k or even 1k damage T-Pain, that’d single-handedly make Priest the best godlands farmer in the game.

Regardless of all the calculations and graphs and spreadsheets, having an instant damage AoE is just very satisfying to play with. Nobody would dispute that the Knight’s Shield isn’t good in terms of DPS, but there’s something pleasant about being able to just run into gods and instantly wreck them with just one press of the spacebar.

#41

Because the other two dungeon whites are for robed classes with damaging abilities, hence if they wanted to continue the same line of thought then Necro should come to mind, not priest. Which makes me even more curious as why did they decide to make it for priest. Just stick to two good UTs and no one would be any wiser.

#42

Here’s the results from 10 Wis up to 90 Wis. I noticed that the Wis mod only kicks in somewhere after approximately 26 Wis. Before that no additional wis will affect the tome at all.

Here’s the link to the imgur album.

[Album] Tome of Pain at different Wis values
#43

I think it’s fine.

#44

To me a necro is kinda more interested in interfering with dead things than living slimy mutations/corruptions so I don’t feel they’ve missed out on anything by not including a necro UT. Though as RMGNoob says you can draw any ability into fitting the theme of this dungeon… because it’s so good theme IMO!

Of course my preference would’ve been to make a new class to fit the theme of parasite chambers/demon worship/slime corruption/whatever but that’s because I’ll use any excuse to try and expand the game in this direction.

#45

Unless we ask the person who made the dungeon directly, we can only speculate.

Personally I think it was necessary to experiment a bit in this direction with Priest. It’s still not all that popular of a class and you can’t really make more pure healing Tomes without just taking an already existing one and releasing a buffed version of it.

Thanks for the numbers btw.

#46

I think I may have found something.
The Heal is pretty clear to me now - starting at 30 wis (unless shown otherwise), the following is true:
120 + wis * 0.8
Since 30 wis results in 144 total, and that’s also what you got at 30 wis, I’m going to presume it starts there.
At 50 wis, this correctly results in 160; and at 75, in 180.

I’ll still have my hands full with the damage, though.
Sometimes it increases with 19, sometimes with 18, so it’s not as linear as the Heal…

Edit: Done! All formulas are now fully-fledged on the wiki!
Thank you very much! ^u^

#47

Very nice work, I’m glad you were finally able to solve the mystery behind its Wis mod.

#48

Well, then they should redo acropolis armours description lol

#49

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