About dungeon modifiers


#1

lemme start by pointing out a core concept that most rotmg gameplay revolves around: decision making between risk vs reward.
need a ring? do you use deca for the safety? or do you use lodestone for more damage but less room for error?
oh you’re flashing? but the boss is at 1k hp, do you nexus? or do you stay?

it’s quite a large part of the game, and a lot of mechanics come together to promote the idea of taking risks for better rewards.

but what is this?
image
more risk, less reward…

why bother indeed.
i suggest that the XP decrease be paired with an HP decrease on bosses, and loot decrease be paired with a damage decrease. the reverse can also be added in order to give players that take the risk a better reward

edit: was reminded of the wishing well in Heroes of Hammerwatch, where each modifier has a negative or positive value. if the modifiers you select ends up positive, it costs exponentially more to add more positive effects, but if it ends up negative, you get (linearly) more xp and loot. i think that is a good system for letting players add modifiers on keys. for dungeons not opened by players, make the system weighted close to zero so the positive and negative both balance out, and instead of “quality” of the dungeon, have a “chaos” value where higher chaos means more modifiers are added, resulting in wilder experience and gameplay but still a balanced risk/reward.

edit2: throwing around some random ideas for potential modifiers

  • enemy hp
  • enemy damage
  • enemy def
  • enemy ability cooldown
  • enemy speed
  • player hp
  • player hp regen
  • player mp
  • player mp regen
  • or just modifier to player stats in general
  • player ability cooldown
  • item proc cooldown
  • player size (hitbox size)
  • petless (how do you not think of this one deca)
  • flooded (adds air bar and drowning in dungeons that normally don’t have water)
  • constant status effects (no sicken/invis) (woul b cool if sicken decreased healing received instead)
  • environmental damage (evil water/lava/stationary turrets/drowning)

in general, from a design perspective, conditional stuff is always more interesting than passive stuff
so a global constant % buff/debuff is a lot less interesting than say, modifiers from above but with these before it:

  • when not moving
  • when inflicted with positive effects
  • when inflicted with negative effects
  • when under/above 75% hp
  • when using ability, for x seconds
  • when standing in liquid
  • when using a consumable, for x seconds

obviously there’s a lot more to be explored, but what was shown in the video was very underwhelming and disappointing. i hope deca has more creativity juice in their fridge.


#2

Didn’t he say at the start of the video that the testing session ONLY had negative modifiers enabled? He explained the point system too, the system is supposed to balance out negative modifiers with positive ones. (So, dungeons WILL NOT have solely negative modifiers. They will be balanced with positive modifiers)

Also, he recently stated that negative loot drop will NOT be in the game. It’s only in the testing server

Anyway, here is some feedback I left on reddit:

Hmm… one of my main criticisms before was a negative loot/xp rate would be impossible to balance around, so that takes care of that.
My other criticism still stands though. Something like +5% enemy defense is so boring. It isn’t gonna feel like a unique experience, it’s just gonna make the dungeon feel slightly “off”. Like you won’t rethink your strategy, you’ll barely be able to tell that the enemies were changed and it’ll be like “oh, that dungeon took slightly longer than usual to complete”

I think they should really go balls to the wall with these modifiers. Something like all enemies have the armored status effect would really encourage you to use armor piercing weapons or to try and avoid certain encounters. It makes a noticeable difference. A measly 5-15% will just feel a little bit off but largely the same

Of course, with a modifier like this it would have to be balanced out with other positive modifiers.

I’m hoping DECA is just trying to play it super safe right now and will make the modifiers more game changing in the future, because as it currently stands I’m pretty underwhelmed


#3

He did.

Overall, I’m not excited for this dungeon modifier shit. I think it’s, well, shit. I mean, 15% detriment to loot drop? That is unpog. Expecially in voids. Which drop absolutely nothing. I’ve done 50 some and gotten 2 red bags, 50% pbags, and the rest a shitty pot. I’ve done 40 or so Osancs and all you have to do is look at my realmeye to see the whites.

The dungeon mods that were mentioned in the video also seem to be very boring. And the fact that DECA would only release them slowly instead of all at once so the “players get used to them”, is not very appealing to me.

Honestly, if a dungeon was harder, I would expect better loot.


#4

Deca is playing super safe because pissing off people who buys their stuff (especially keys) would not be ideal

get your information updated n00b:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxU-ZxbC16Y (its an update video by afro highlighting some stuff about miscommunication, basically no negative affects to loot drops will happen according to deca


#5

you died more in osanc than i did lmfao who u calling noob


#6

i do 30x the o3s you do shaddup

also you play melee and trix those are easymode classes okbruh


#7

bruh how is pally an easy mode class i have 4 range

Actually O3 is pretty ez anyways


#8

That’s why the positive modifiers increase your loot drops, due to dungeons like the void. Also i’m quite sure that modifiers which lower your loot drops will not be added in the end, it’s still an extremely new concept which makes me wonder why everyone is so triggered about it. It’s an amazing idea in general to give variety and fix the problem of discord runs being ‘‘stale’’ and ‘‘boring’’


#9

pally has insane survivability, there are phases you can face tank so 4 range isnt a problem, and you can just stand back or leech, and not have to dodge because of your defense and hp pool

its the first class i started doing o3s on, and the first class i exalted, so i would know


#10

tsktsk unlike some people i pixie o3


#11

since pally doesnt have +def on its ability, and has lower base def to begin with, its definitely not as tanky as warrior or knight while still having the same short range.

if you got oreo tho, even o3 becomes trivial. can sit on him every single phase.
unfortunately i will not be able to experience that for a long time, since i have full exalted pally on life and will not care to bring another pally into o3 again lol


#12

Pally has 5 natural def increase 25 -> 30 compared to warrior
and his hp boost and healing debuff is much more valuable than the extra 4-5 def you might get from a +10 def boost from warrior helm (on top of that you can control when you get hp boost, ive noticed on robe classes that pallys dont keep their hp buffs consistent during boss fights).

pally is def more tanky than warrior, and has an extra 5 speed to help dodging (speedy dodging is quite hard)


#13

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